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Forced Induction Forum
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.

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Old 05-24-2016, 04:35 PM   #1
Thew2589
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Turbo 325 touring

I'm thinking about putting the cx racing turbo on my 2003 325ti, I was only planning on running it at about 6psi to minimize engine modifications. Not sure if I would need to upgrade the injectors or not.. Has any one done this before?
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:35 PM   #2
Geo31
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Originally Posted by Thew2589 View Post
I'm thinking about putting the cx racing turbo on my 2003 325ti, I was only planning on running it at about 6psi to minimize engine modifications. Not sure if I would need to upgrade the injectors or not.. Has any one done this before?
You'd probably get better help from the forced induction forum.

Just a WAG here... I don't have turbo experience with these cars, but I have some from other cars. The danger is to get too high into the duty cycle of the injectors. If the duty cycle gets too high, there is almost no room for an anomaly to occur without trouble (and trouble with a turbo is usually big trouble).
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Old 05-25-2016, 07:48 AM   #3
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Why turbo? There are plenty of s/c kits out there (even used ones) that are much easier to deal with. Ive got a ASA unit on my car and it pulls hard on the top end.
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:44 AM   #4
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You can but you need tuning 8ish psi works fine. The MS45 ECU is not as easy to tune as the MS43 in the pre facelift cars. I will PM you some info..

You will need to upgrade the clutch, and run 42lb injectors.
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:08 PM   #5
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Why turbo? There are plenty of s/c kits out there (even used ones) that are much easier to deal with. Ive got a ASA unit on my car and it pulls hard on the top end.
I was hoping to spend around 5k total for the project.. The CX racing turbo is $1600 which gives me a comfortable budget left for install, all the SC units I saw were at about $5500 out the door


I've also considered just dropping the M54B30 in it and doing the turbo or SC later on down the road, still kinda fishing for information to help me make up my mind I guess
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:11 PM   #6
Thew2589
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You'd probably get better help from the forced induction forum.

Just a WAG here... I don't have turbo experience with these cars, but I have some from other cars. The danger is to get too high into the duty cycle of the injectors. If the duty cycle gets too high, there is almost no room for an anomaly to occur without trouble (and trouble with a turbo is usually big trouble).

Unfortunately the guys in the forces induction forum just want to make people feel stupid and not help them out with any information they might have.

But yeah I figured it would be inevitable to have to replace the injectors, with that being said does anyone know a good set of injectors to go with?
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:10 PM   #7
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Unfortunately the guys in the forces induction forum just want to make people feel stupid and not help them out with any information they might have.

But yeah I figured it would be inevitable to have to replace the injectors, with that being said does anyone know a good set of injectors to go with?
for 8-15psi the ford 42pound injectors are what you run. BUT make sure they are REAL ford injectors not the crap on eBay they really are junk...

The CX kit will work fine for street use with proper tuning 8psi on a M54B25 you should see 300ish whp with gobs of torque. Turbo selection is also key you do not need or want a huge turbo.. Like a GT35... T3/04 Hybrid works great with a .63 hot side and .57-.60 trim.. Boost builds quick and you get really good daily drivability and mid range punch.
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:12 PM   #8
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I was hoping to spend around 5k total for the project.. The CX racing turbo is $1600 which gives me a comfortable budget left for install, all the SC units I saw were at about $5500 out the door


I've also considered just dropping the M54B30 in it and doing the turbo or SC later on down the road, still kinda fishing for information to help me make up my mind I guess
Wait until you price intercoolers. Then you need custom fabricated piping. It's my bet that putting together a turbo package on your own will far exceed the price of a SC kit, but a LOT will depend upon how much you can do yourself.

When I installed an SR20DET (factory turbo engine) in my Infiniti G20, I did the install myself AND fabbed all the IC piping. If you are handy and have some basic tools and a MIG welder, it's really not that hard. You also need to factor in mandrel bent eblows (several) and some straight tubing. If your welding skills are not that great (like mine) you can always just tack the tubes together and let an experienced welder do the final welds (TIG > MIG for appearances).

I don't want to scare you off, but you need to be realistic. It CAN be done. You just need to be brave AND do virtually all your own homework, or at least enough that the folks in the FI forum take you seriously (there are a LOT of pretenders that go there and want to be spoon fed - not that I'm saying that's what you are doing).

Also, don't expect companies that have kits to sell you parts. That's not what they are in business to do. Some may, but a lot of stuff they likely won't (like manifolds).
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:19 PM   #9
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Ya can find used s/c kits for 3k or less these days. That coupled with headers and full exhaust you should be close to 300whp.

To give you an idea I spent 2200 for a stage 2 Asa kit, and 900 on headers and full exhaust. Makes for a fun car with the 3.46 rear end
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:09 PM   #10
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Wait until you price intercoolers. Then you need custom fabricated piping. It's my bet that putting together a turbo package on your own will far exceed the price of a SC kit, but a LOT will depend upon how much you can do yourself.

When I installed an SR20DET (factory turbo engine) in my Infiniti G20, I did the install myself AND fabbed all the IC piping. If you are handy and have some basic tools and a MIG welder, it's really not that hard. You also need to factor in mandrel bent eblows (several) and some straight tubing. If your welding skills are not that great (like mine) you can always just tack the tubes together and let an experienced welder do the final welds (TIG > MIG for appearances).

I don't want to scare you off, but you need to be realistic. It CAN be done. You just need to be brave AND do virtually all your own homework, or at least enough that the folks in the FI forum take you seriously (there are a LOT of pretenders that go there and want to be spoon fed - not that I'm saying that's what you are doing).

Also, don't expect companies that have kits to sell you parts. That's not what they are in business to do. Some may, but a lot of stuff they likely won't (like manifolds).
Actually CX has a BOLT on kit with intercooler, pipes, down pipe etc...

you can piece a turbo kit together these days really cheap...
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:11 PM   #11
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Actually CX has a BOLT on kit with intercooler, pipes, down pipe etc...

you can piece a turbo kit together these days really cheap...
That is what scares me, cheap parts are cheap for a reason
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:18 PM   #12
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That is what scares me, cheap parts are cheap for a reason
You might be surprised. Turbo's yes.. hard parts not so much..

I bought a 24x12x3 bar and plate intercooler back in 06, compared it to my friends Greddy intercooler same size for his Supra. Absolutely identical.

The CX stuff is typically not bad.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:30 PM   #13
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This is the kit I'm planning on getting

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...gory_Code=TOKT



Looks like it has everything except the cat back exhaust that I'll need to custom fab. Aside from that I should just need new injectors and a tune, right?
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:25 PM   #14
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This is the kit I'm planning on getting

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...gory_Code=TOKT



Looks like it has everything except the cat back exhaust that I'll need to custom fab. Aside from that I should just need new injectors and a tune, right?
Pretty much. You will need 42 pound injectors and the tune...

You will probably end up needing small bits here and there to...

Heat wrap the header, down pipe, also the charge pipes, which most people do not do. Wrapping both hot/cold sides of the charge pipes helps with heat, and by a turbo blanket for the hot side of the turbo.

Your clutch will need to be upgraded. Turbo's like a heavier flywheel so you can just upgrade the clutch.

Then later down the road do an oil cooler..

You will probably need small bits and pieces as you install it to...
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Last edited by GGray; 05-25-2016 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:25 PM   #15
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Okay cool that's what I figured... And my car is an automatic, I've heard some say that's bad for turbos and others say auto is better for turbos so I was gonna give it a shot with the automatic and replace it if I have to/ break it. So with that being said my 5k budget is looking more and more realistic

When I start the project I will post pictures.

QUOTE=GGray;16984912]Pretty much. You will need 42 pound injectors and the tune...

You will probably end up needing small bits here and there to...

Heat wrap the header, down pipe, also the charge pipes, which most people do not do. Wrapping both hot/cold sides of the charge pipes helps with heat, and by a turbo blanket for the hot side of the turbo.

Your clutch will need to be upgraded. Turbo's like a heavier flywheel so you can just upgrade the clutch.

Then later down the road do an oil cooler..

You will probably need small bits and pieces as you install it to...[/QUOTE]
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Old 05-25-2016, 06:58 PM   #16
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Heat wrap the header, down pipe, also the charge pipes, which most people do not do. Wrapping both hot/cold sides of the charge pipes helps with heat, and by a turbo blanket for the hot side of the turbo.
Absolutely. Or better yet, get Swain Tech's White Lightning coating. It's a true thermal barrier and not just some ceramic paint like the Jet Hot style coatings. I did this when I installed the SR20DET in my G20. This stuff works so well, the under hood temps WITH the turbo was no more than when I had an NA engine with Jet Hot coated header. Yeah. No lie. I could tell more stories about this. Swain Tech is from a suburb of my home town and the owner, Dan Swain, is a racer from WAY back. I remember watching him race in HS (that was 40 years ago). They are THE best coater in the US.

Anyway, as Gary said, keeping the heat IN the system is a good thing. On the turbine side, the heat keeps the wheels more lively. On the exhaust side, it helps with flow. The compressor side and output is where you want to control the heat.

Quote:
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Your clutch will need to be upgraded. Turbo's like a heavier flywheel so you can just upgrade the clutch.
I'll disagree with this from experience. I ran a low mass flywheel on my turbo set-up (along with a bunch of other tweaks) and it was smooth on the boost and spooled up quickly. Remember, it's a double-edged sword. Load will cause the wheels to spool, but if you have your foot to the floor, the low mass flywheel also helps the engine rev and vehicle acceleration. I think it smooths out the power delivery. In the end, F1 cars would have very heavy flywheels if a heavy flywheel was a performance advantage with a turbo.

The other performance upgrade I did that is really sweet is Extrude Hone. I had the manifold (cast iron), turbine housing, and J-pipe all Extrude Honed. It's really improves the turbo's performance.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:47 PM   #17
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Geo is right, light flywheels are advantageous for turbos as well.
I had a 7lb flywheel in my DSM, acceleration was amazeballs after that.
Turbos and automatics can work well together, you don't fall out of boost during shifts.
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Old 05-26-2016, 10:18 AM   #18
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Swain tech works great but for a budget turbo build wrap is far cheaper.. I swain tech coated my last turbo car and last few NA headers.

I have used both heavy OEM style and a LTW flywheel, on the same car, same set up, flywheel only change. The OEM flywheel defiantly built boost faster than the LTW on the same car same set up flywheel only change, same style clutch disk six puck ceramic. I like a LTW flywheel on a turbo car but it does change the way boost builds. Gearing also has an effect.

And cost.. Lower budget just put an upgraded clutch disk/pressure plate in...
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:36 PM   #19
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That I'll agree with, unless you are needing to replace the dual mass anyway. It is way cheaper to reuse what you can.
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Old 05-26-2016, 03:13 PM   #20
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Swain tech works great but for a budget turbo build wrap is far cheaper.. I swain tech coated my last turbo car and last few NA headers.

I have used both heavy OEM style and a LTW flywheel, on the same car, same set up, flywheel only change. The OEM flywheel defiantly built boost faster than the LTW on the same car same set up flywheel only change, same style clutch disk six puck ceramic. I like a LTW flywheel on a turbo car but it does change the way boost builds. Gearing also has an effect.

And cost.. Lower budget just put an upgraded clutch disk/pressure plate in...
It would be cool to get a series of acceleration runs to compare the two. With the low mass flywheel the car will accelerate better initially, but... the real question (and I admittedly don't know) is which one yields the faster acceleration? I'd suspect the longer the time you're accelerating, the more it would favor the heavier flywheel, but for shorter acceleration, the low mass may just hold the edge. It would be cool to do rolling acceleration tests as well, simulating acceleration between corners. That would be some great data.
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