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Old 12-08-2016, 01:19 AM   #1
rocketrides
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ZF 5HP19 dumping fluid from bellhousing after install

Hello everyone. I replaced my ZF5 in my 2001 330i today. It was a used tranny that came with the TC with supposedly 130k from a car that had been wrecked. After a smooth RandR (my second time doing on an e46) I filled it up with pentosin and when I fired it up it started dumping fluid from the bellhousing where the tranny mates to the engine. I shifted through the gears with my foot on the break as you do when starting it up after filling when cold. I didn't get to top off at operating temp because when you rev up the engine the leaking stops (or at least doesn't come out then) but when I take my foot off the gas and the engine comes back to idle the fluid begins to drip at a rapid rate. In about a minute or two probably a quarter to half quart came pouring out. I'm aware that you should seat the TC in the transmission to not destroy the pump when you fire it up. I also mated the surfaces cleanly and didn't use the bolts to suck up any gaps. I am at a loss why the fluid is pouring out. Could the TC be bad or the pump seal or ???? What if anything can I do diagnostically without pulling it out again...ie undo the flywheel bolts and nudge the TC with prybar closer to flywheel or ?? If I need to pull it please let me know what should I look for....ie...pump seal or bushing, TC failure or ??? I'm new but I did look through all the forums I could find and didn't see any info on this specific problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Last edited by rocketrides; 12-08-2016 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:03 AM   #2
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The ZF transmissions models have problems with the front pump bushing spinning and the front pump seal getting damaged.

I assume if you search a bit you may find more info.

Also keep in mind if the trans from from a wrecked car, depending on how back the wreck was and the amount of damage/force, something in the transmission could be broken or cracked.
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Last edited by jfoj; 12-08-2016 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 09:05 AM   #3
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Search "jjrichar" as the poster and "transmission". He is the resident tranny expert here. Only guy I know who buys a ZF tranny and tears it down, then rebuilds, just for the intellectual challenge.

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Old 12-08-2016, 01:29 PM   #4
rocketrides
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@jfoj...Thanks. I'm aware of the bushing failure as the most common item. I did a swap for my gf's e46 a couple years ago because of that reason. The bushing spins out and sometimes even gets stuck on the TC. You need to replace the pump or do a swap as I did. This one looked good and supposedly was running when hit so I'm confused. I'm wondering if it could be the seal in the TC itself but I would imagine that would drip leaving little puddles, not pour out when you start it up.
@deadf15h...thanks for the tip. I will look in his posts and maybe dm him if need be.
UPDATE...the guy I bought it from said he will give me my $ back because he wants his customers to be happy. I'd rather try and make it work today but will pull it tomorrow if not. Does anyone know of any good used zh5's around Seattle for sale? Or anywhere else to look besides craigslist. They seem to be in short demand because they fail so much
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:13 PM   #5
greenpick
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Have you tried Aurora Auto Wrecking in North Seattle? They have a lot of BMW items.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:27 PM   #6
rocketrides
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@greenpick...base on your advice I tried them and no luck. they said try absolute german and they don't have one either. any other yards around that have a lot of bmws?
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:38 PM   #7
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swap it to 5 speed or buy a rebuils ZF trans.. if you buy a used one you will have to redo this again in the near future as all ZF trans have this issue.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:50 PM   #8
rocketrides
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Originally Posted by mikeetastic View Post
swap it to 5 speed or buy a rebuils ZF trans.. if you buy a used one you will have to redo this again in the near future as all ZF trans have this issue.
I've heard bad experiences from rebuilt units with these. I considered doing it myself as I once did my 4l60e on my Tahoe without any issues. I just want the most cost effective way. The 5sp swap is too much work since I plan on upgrading soon anyway. Hoping to find a local reputable yard or someone local off here and get a used one if possible.

Last edited by rocketrides; 12-08-2016 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:36 PM   #9
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Could you have installed it with the TC not all the way in? It has to be seated properly. It "drops" into its position. This is the critical step.
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:39 PM   #10
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The reason it leaks fluid at idle is because the pump is not pulling much of the fluid. When you Rev the engine the pump sucks alot more of the fluid preventin the leak.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:08 PM   #11
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Sorry, thats all I know in Seattle.
I have called these guys for part a few times and they seem to have them in CA, but I have never bought anything from them.
www.bmrparts.com
I had my trans rebuilt locally in Kent when then the reverse blew up.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:29 PM   #12
rocketrides
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Originally Posted by BMWCaptain View Post
Could you have installed it with the TC not all the way in? It has to be seated properly. It "drops" into its position. This is the critical step.
Just pulled it and couldn't get my fingers behind it so I know it was seated all the way unfortunately. Would have been much simpler to just fix that and reinstall. Now my TC is stuck on the TX to complicate things.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:30 PM   #13
rocketrides
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Originally Posted by BMWCaptain View Post
The reason it leaks fluid at idle is because the pump is not pulling much of the fluid. When you Rev the engine the pump sucks alot more of the fluid preventin the leak.
That makes sense.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:33 PM   #14
rocketrides
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Sorry, thats all I know in Seattle.
I have called these guys for part a few times and they seem to have them in CA, but I have never bought anything from them.
www.bmrparts.com
I had my trans rebuilt locally in Kent when then the reverse blew up.
For anyone that cares Eastside Transmission in Bellevue is super legit and has been open since the 60's. I'm close by so if I were going rebuild I would do it myself or have them do it probably. They recommended LKQ in Portland and B&R in Graham for used tranny's. 110k miles for $1000 out the door might be my best bet. Otherwise I have one sourced for $750 w/185k with Gresham in Portland. I'm suspect of the high miles but I'm selling it so I'm torn. Probably go the $1k route still.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketrides View Post
Just pulled it and couldn't get my fingers behind it so I know it was seated all the way unfortunately. Would have been much simpler to just fix that and reinstall. Now my TC is stuck on the TX to complicate things.
Either the bushing spun and is seized on the torque converter hub or the torque converter was not fullly aligned with the pump gears and it was driven into the pump gears and not damaged the pump and the torque converter.
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:40 PM   #16
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I have called these guys for part a few times and they seem to have them in CA, but I have never bought anything from them.
www.bmrparts.com


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Old 01-02-2017, 03:19 PM   #17
rocketrides
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UPDATE:
Got a 110K used from HCL with a 6mo 6k warranty for peace of mind. They seem legit and have another one with 137K if anyone else is in need for the same price. It ran me $830 with core. Went in without issue. No fluid leaked this time as the front pump seal was not compromised like on the last one. However....It is in limp mode and throws codes p0721 output shaft speed sensor circuit range performance and p1732 no dtc definition found. I guess I have to pull the pan and waste another filter and gasket combo as well as 5 more quarts of brand new pentosin ;( . I'm wondering since the output speed sensor seems to be on the harness how do you replace just that? Also any chance it just needs more fluid and is limp mode because it isn't building up pressure? I filled it as required and topped off at operating temp till it dribbled out. I don't want to waste another $20 on a quart of pentosin just to pull the pan and waste that too. Please advise...

Last edited by rocketrides; 01-02-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:24 PM   #18
jfoj
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You can usually re-use the gasket and filter.

You can also capture the fluid in a clean container and then filter it though either some cheese cloth, paper towels or a paint strainer.

I reuse fluid all the time in some circumstances.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:28 PM   #19
rocketrides
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
You can usually re-use the gasket and filter.

You can also capture the fluid in a clean container and then filter it though either some cheese cloth, paper towels or a paint strainer.

I reuse fluid all the time in some circumstances.
Good to know. I will strain it as it's a much cheaper solution. Filter not as worried about. Gasket I always change because once it pinch seals it is impossible to line it up exactly and can cause leaking. It's worth a shot though.

That saves me some money on the consumables. Any ideas on the output speed sensor job? Also could being a quart low cause that code and it being in limp mode? Not that I think I am but I didn't have a level to make sure it was exactly even when I filled it at operating temp.
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:48 PM   #20
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You can buy the OSS separately, it's an easy R&R. Just two bolts once the pan is off. Looks like this:
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