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Old 02-08-2017, 07:39 AM   #61
SK330ci
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Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
First of all, thanks a ton. I did more research on pad build up and stumbled upon some Porsche threads that have near identical issues. What about my driving is causing pad residue? Too rough or too gentle? Can I just sand down my pads and then bed them? I really like my pads... I'd sooner buy new blanks if you think that is best, but I'd be most curious as to how to prevent build up from here on out.

I think what happened is that I had these pads and rotors, been slowly creating build up, the old bushings absorbed the issue for so long that it could get really deep, and now it's magnified with everything stiff


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I run these pads too because of a rob recommendation, best DD pad period. Buy oe blanks, they work great with blanks and you wont have problems with rotor vane buildup anymore.

ps. when you re-bed, don't let it catch fire, fire is bad!
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:41 PM   #62
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Wow. I was thinking that your chassis is bent- it all got better when you disconnected the sway bar.

Bedding in brake pads- yeah, half way between ABS and what your parents do is about right. You're just trying to get everything to mate together. And you want to make sure that you drive far enough in between braking parts that the rotors and pads can completely cool back down. So you make them warm by slowing down, cool them by driving without applying the brakes, then warm them up again, then cool them again. Not threshold braking- that's for later. The more I think about it, you probably jacked your pads doing stops like that- it's called glazing the pads, when they get too hot too fast when they're new. That's that- but the problem persisted when you swapped pads and rotors with your buddy? Maybe something *is* bent up front...
Thanks for the bed in procedure. Very different from what I was recommended way back! I also believe removing the roll bar made the problem less prevalent because it was carrying the minor wobble through the bar, and then the other side is doing it too. So, in my opinion, I felt the roll bar was just carrying the "energy" of the wobble throughout the chassis. I think my problem was a problem a long time ago, but my worn FCAB's wouldn't let me feel it, and so it's just gotten worse and worse and worse. This may not even be it, I discovered something new today, but I'll only write about it if I can make the issue happen again.

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I run these pads too because of a rob recommendation, best DD pad period. Buy oe blanks, they work great with blanks and you wont have problems with rotor vane buildup anymore.

ps. when you re-bed, don't let it catch fire, fire is bad!
How's your bite on cold? It's pretty bad for me, but I'm quick to blame the rotors. Rob recommended them to me too, but my cold pad bite is weak. I assume this is due to rotors....unless you chime in and tell me otherwise
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:09 PM   #63
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I would go back to full OEM/Genuine BMW at this point. These cars are too delicate and have a relatively low margin for error when messing with aftermarket stuff
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:19 PM   #64
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How's your bite on cold? It's pretty bad for me, but I'm quick to blame the rotors. Rob recommended them to me too, but my cold pad bite is weak. I assume this is due to rotors....unless you chime in and tell me otherwise
Probably the bed in procedure- they're probably glazed... Sometimes you can clean them up, sometimes they just need to be new.
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:47 PM   #65
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Wow. I was thinking that your chassis is bent- it all got better when you disconnected the sway bar.

Bedding in brake pads- yeah, half way between ABS and what your parents do is about right. You're just trying to get everything to mate together. And you want to make sure that you drive far enough in between braking parts that the rotors and pads can completely cool back down. So you make them warm by slowing down, cool them by driving without applying the brakes, then warm them up again, then cool them again. Not threshold braking- that's for later. The more I think about it, you probably jacked your pads doing stops like that- it's called glazing the pads, when they get too hot too fast when they're new. That's that- but the problem persisted when you swapped pads and rotors with your buddy? Maybe something *is* bent up front...
Just dead wrong. You do not let the brakes cool when bedding them. And the point is not to "get everything to mate together", its to deposit pad material onto the rotor.

See below:

For a typical performance brake system using street-performance pads, a series of ten partial braking events, from 60mph down to 10mph, will typically raise the temperature of the brake components sufficiently to be considered one bed-in set. Each of the ten partial braking events should achieve moderate-to-high deceleration (about 80 to 90% of the deceleration required to lock up the brakes and/or to engage the ABS), and they should be made one after the other, without allowing the brakes to cool in between.

Depending on the make-up of the pad material, the brake friction will seem to gain slightly in performance, and will then lose or fade somewhat by around the fifth stop (also about the time that a friction smell will be detectable in the passenger compartment). This does not indicate that the brakes are bedded-in. This phenomenon is known as a green fade, as it is characteristic of immature or green' pads, in which the resins still need to be driven out of the pad material, at the point where the pads meet the rotors. In this circumstance, the upper temperature limit of the friction material will not yet have been reached.

As when bedding-in any set of brakes, care should be taken regarding the longer stopping distance necessary with incompletely bedded pads. This first set of stops in the bed-in process is only complete when all ten stops have been performed - not before. The system should then be allowed to cool, by driving the vehicle at the highest safe speed for the circumstances, without bringing it to a complete stop with the brakes still applied. After cooling the vehicle, a second set of ten partial braking events should be performed, followed by another cooling exercise. In some situations, a third set is beneficial, but two are normally sufficient.

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...-system-bed-in
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:59 PM   #66
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I would go back to full OEM/Genuine BMW at this point. These cars are too delicate and have a relatively low margin for error when messing with aftermarket stuff
I was full OEM when I had the problem aside from brakes and the FCAB's. FCAB's are now BMW, everything else is Lemforder, which most is OEM. I seriously don't think we can blame my struts and springs on this issue.

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Probably the bed in procedure- they're probably glazed... Sometimes you can clean them up, sometimes they just need to be new.
I just finished swapping the rotors. I read on another car forum (GTR? I've been on a lot lately) that sanding the pads can help re-even out the pad and using a scotch brite on the rotor can help a remove build up, so I did both. I got a lot of brake pad material off the rotors for sure. The pad is 95% there, I think it'd be really sad if I had to throw away a virtually new $110 pad? Surely there is something else (assuming everything I just doesn't help)

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Just dead wrong. You do not let the brakes cool when bedding them. And the point is not to "get everything to mate together", its to deposit pad material onto the rotor.

See below:.......
So yes, verge of ABS. 10 stops seems excessive and is definitely more than I originally did. I feel this wouldn't be effective in the rain, right? Because then they can't heat up and water can potentially get on the rotors and make issues, right? Is it going to mess things up if I drive with unbedded pads? I think we're in the middle of a long storm.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:00 PM   #67
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How's your bite on cold? It's pretty bad for me, but I'm quick to blame the rotors. Rob recommended them to me too, but my cold pad bite is weak. I assume this is due to rotors....unless you chime in and tell me otherwise
My cold bite is good on my oe blanks. OE pads are alittle better at cold bite but not by much, on the other hand these z pads extend well past the performance of oe once you start to push on them. they're a winner in my book, i'll never go back to oe pads.

If you don't understand the bed in process, get someone that knows how to do it, fire is bad.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:08 PM   #68
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My cold bite is good on my oe blanks. OE pads are alittle better at cold bite but not by much, on the other hand these z pads extend well past the performance of oe once you start to push on them. they're a winner in my book, i'll never go back to oe pads.

If you don't understand the bed in process, get someone that knows how to do it, fire is bad.
Thanks for chiming in. Keeping my car from rolling at a light required 1.5-2 inches of travel, so not the same results. I might go to OE blanks if I can know for certain my wobble issue lies in the brakes, just to make my headaches go away. I thought I knew the bed-in procedure. I had my friend use my procedure described by me to bed in his akebono's and he's had nothing but driving pleasure. PFC's thinks I live near a race track http://pfc.parts/motorsports/brake-p...ing-procedure/
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:14 PM   #69
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Call BW, they will set you straight on the bed in process. Fire is bad.

"High-performance brake pads with excellent bite, torque, and modulation characteristics for the street, auto-x course, and light track duty.

Performance Friction Z-Rated pads were developed from the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic brand, but are specifically engineered for high-performance, severe-duty usage. The PFC Z-Rated pads offer excellent initial bite even when cold, with torque and modulation characteristics that are unmatched by any other high-performance street pad. They have much lower dust levels than stock pads, and the dont exhibit any increased rotor wear despite the superior braking abilities in virtually all conditions. Z-Rated pads are equally at home on the autocross course and light-duty track days as they are on the street. These pads allow you to maximize your BMWs factory braking system.

PFC Z-Rated pads have some exclusive features that set them apart, including their patented Ionic Fusion bonding technology, which offers the safest and strongest bond possible of the friction material to the backing plate. The pads have no rivets, so you get greatly increased safety and performance with phenomenal shear resistance. PFCs multi-layer bonded Z-Rated pads pick up less road dirt giving you longer pad and rotor life, which means you will spend more time on the road, and less time in the shop changing your brakes.

Excellent bite at virtually any temperature
Superb modulation characteristics
Low dusting
Outstanding wear rate
Ideal for high-performance street, auto-x, and light track use
Made in the USA"
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:21 PM   #70
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Call BW, they will set you straight on the bed in process. Fire is bad.
You mean BMW? Not sure who BW is...

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"The PFC Z-Rated pads offer excellent initial bite even when cold, with torque and modulation characteristics that are unmatched by any other high-performance street pad."
I saw this too, I've been wondering what they were talking about!
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:26 PM   #71
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Just dead wrong.
Easy cheetah. Just because you like to do it differently doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong and doesn't mean it doesn't work. The way I do it has been working for me for a long time. My brakes always work good and have yet to catch on fire. Obviously dude is having a problem, there are lots of ways to skin a cat- I think we're all just trying to help.

And to the pad question, yes, like I said, sometimes you can resurface them. Just make sure they stay flat.

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Old 02-08-2017, 04:33 PM   #72
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Easy cheetah. Just because you like to do it differently doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong and doesn't mean it doesn't work. The way I do it has been working for me for a long time. My brakes always work good and have yet to catch on fire. Obviously dude is having a problem, there are lots of ways to skin a cat- I think we're all just trying to help.

And to the pad question, yes, like I said, sometimes you can resurface them. Just make sure they stay flat.
no, sorry. At some point you may have deposited enough material onto the rotors, but to maximize braking efficiency as quickly as possible, you need to get the pads hot.

This is a well known and established procedure.
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:35 PM   #73
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:53 PM   #74
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Full OEM on brakes I mean. Rotors + pads
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Old 02-08-2017, 05:13 PM   #75
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take all 4 wheels off. Take your calipers off and your rotors. Get a wire brush drill insert. go to town on your hubs, rotor hat backs, rotor hats and the back of the wheel faces/hub bores. Get all the corrosion off. reassemble. Road test it. Bet its gone.
and don't turn the rotors. bmw rotors have runout from the factory. Its the runout in the rotor, and the square cut seal in the caliper piston that retract the piston. Without both of those you'll be warping rotors and eating pads.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:10 PM   #76
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Bimmerworld
Thank you!
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Full OEM on brakes I mean. Rotors + pads
I think that is foolish. That's a lot of "wasted" money and plenty of people use off brand rotors and pads. I don't see why I can't
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take all 4 wheels off. Take your calipers off and your rotors. Get a wire brush drill insert. go to town on your hubs, rotor hat backs, rotor hats and the back of the wheel faces/hub bores. Get all the corrosion off. reassemble. Road test it. Bet its gone.
and don't turn the rotors. bmw rotors have runout from the factory. Its the runout in the rotor, and the square cut seal in the caliper piston that retract the piston. Without both of those you'll be warping rotors and eating pads.
I did scrub the surfaces and had them measured to the one thousandth of an inch and everything is within tolerances. I'm not sure what you mean by turn the rotors. I swapped their sides so the veins and the "slices" are facing the correct direction. I don't know if that's what you're talking about
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:42 AM   #77
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Fire is Bad. You might have pad build up on rotors. Your pads might be shot. Your rotors might be shot. But I'm going to think outside the box. Are your lug bolts compatible with the wheels? Are your wheels compatible with your hubs? Could it be the wheels are shifting around?

edit: when I first read through this thread I was reading removing roll bar reduced problem. So I was thinking how could that happen. Then I realized you were talking about an anti-roll bar

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:04 PM   #78
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-replace passenger tie rod. The boot is ripped and it pissed out all it's...glue/lube during the rack replacement. It was not removed from the kingpin
I'd do this. If the boot is ripped the big problem is dirt getting in (not stuff getting out). If dirt is getting into your steering rack, it could be shot.
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Old 02-09-2017, 02:12 PM   #79
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Fire is Bad. You might have pad build up on rotors. Your pads might be shot. Your rotors might be shot. But I'm going to think outside the box. Are your lug bolts compatible with the wheels? Are your wheels compatible with your hubs? Could it be the wheels are shifting around?

edit: when I first read through this thread I was reading removing roll bar reduced problem. So I was thinking how could that happen. Then I realized you were talking about an anti-roll bar
I know fire is bad BMW bolts and BMW wheels. And yeah, my family made fun of me when I didn't call it a swaybar during the holidays 0.o

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I'd do this. If the boot is ripped the big problem is dirt getting in (not stuff getting out). If dirt is getting into your steering rack, it could be shot.
Sorry, the boots are brand new. It's the ball joint in the kingpin that ripped.



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Old 02-09-2017, 02:39 PM   #80
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I can only assume your BMW wheels are suited to your BMW hubs. Apparently they changed these specs, I don't know when. Just trying to help. Apparently the new m2 are really good. It might be time to trade in.
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