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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 04-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #61
Stinger9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazzy88ss View Post
Is there a time limit on that 150k?

I was told by my local mechanic that it's only about $1000 to replace the filter/pump on the M56 cars and that you don't have to do the whole tank?

time limit yes....15 years


Please tell BmW you don't have to do the whole tank? They will appreciate it.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by kaboo0m View Post
what in gods name makes the job cost 9k?
Do you have a stainless steel tank on your car?
Do you know what the labor entails to replace a tank?
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:00 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger9 View Post
Do you have a stainless steel tank on your car?
Do you know what the labor entails to replace a tank?
i haven't done it on an e46 but let me tell you on my e30 it only cost less than 300 in parts and labor.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:44 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by kaboo0m View Post
i haven't done it on an e46 but let me tell you on my e30 it only cost less than 300 in parts and labor.
Do you have any idea what we're talking about?
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #65
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referring to dropping replacing the fuel tank on a sulev m54 right? dropping exhaust, drive shaft, differential, axles, and subframe. Yeah i get that if thats what you're talking about because thats what I did to replace my rusted tank that was spewing gas on my e30... standard stuff but what makes it 9k on an e46?

its an honest question that makes me wonder why BMW would install a part on a car that would cost more than the overall value of a the vehicle itself. Even a transmission-being the most complicated and special unit on any car-costs 2-5k.

Last edited by bmwstephen; 04-12-2012 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:16 PM   #66
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Everyone here needs to understand this SULEV issue is not just BMW. I am not sure any US manufacturers had SULEV, but I know many Japanese manufacturers had them.

The issue on the multi thousand dollar fuel tank is it is a stainless steel sealed fuel tank. The fuel pump is not serviceable. As I recall the stipulation was that cars were not supposed to release more than 1 qt of hydrocarbons over the life of the vehicle or something foolish like that?

The Federal Government knew that for the manufactures to meet these requirements that the certain parts would be wildly expensive and they stipulated that the manufacturers would need to extend the warranty on the specialized SULEV parts for 15 years or 150k miles. The auto manufactures were given special credits of give mes by the Federal Government and they did not want the cost of be handed over to the consumers either at time of purchase or time of repair.

The warranty clearly states that as long as the cars were originally sold, titled and tagged or leased in the states that had SULEV destination, the cars would be covered under the 15 year /150k warranty. The ONLY situation you would possibly get screwed in is if a dealer was on the border of the state and performed a "dealer exchange" outside of the covered state. In this case the customer did nothing wrong, the ordering dealer did something stupid and BMW and/or any other manufacturer should cover the repair as if they deny the repair it clearly in bad faith.

BMW, of any other manufacturer, should not force a customer to take the car back to a state where the SULEV was originally sold for warranty work. This would be denial of warranty coverage and is not needed and again is clearly in bad faith.

The problem is these cars were sold 10 years ago, nobody at BMW NA appears to have been with BMW for more than 3 years and they are all less than 30 years old. The fools at BMW NA were in college on their parents funds and had no idea where or what they would be doing with their future and are TOTALLY clueless about the SULEV Federal Government mandated warranty coverage.

Same hold true for the dealerships, the BMW Service Advisers don't even understand the 48/50 bumper to bumper warranty, CPO coverage or the extended maintenance coverage. They will certainly be clueless about the SULEV warranty coverage.

There is absolutely NO WAY I would back down or be turned down for and SULEV coverage if I had one of these cars. You need to go after the bag of idiots with a BIG hammer and a lot of documentation and educate the dummies about what their forefathers agreed to with the Federal Government.

If BMW was smart, on some of these car and the subframe problems, they should offer to buy the owners out of the cars and scrap them. If would be cheaper and easier for BMW, however, there is nobody in any sort of common sense or decision making capacity within BMW NA or most of the auto manufacturers these days.

Let me just say I was buying back GM V8 diesel cars for way too much money when they were almost 10 years old back in the day. It was way cheaper and easier to make the things go away then to fight over them or pay to repair them.

SULEV Owners, make sure you know what you have on your hands, start your document file as you will need to explain and educate everyone at every turn if and when you have a problem with a SULEV component that is less than 15 years old or less than 150k miles on it!
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:19 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by kaboo0m View Post
referring to dropping replacing the fuel tank on a sulev m54 right? dropping exhaust, drive shaft, differential, axles, and subframe. Yeah i get that if thats what you're talking about because thats what I did to replace my rusted tank that was spewing gas on my e30... standard stuff but what makes it 9k on an e46?

its an honest question that makes me wonder why BMW would install a part on a car that would cost more than the overall value of a the vehicle itself. Even a transmission-being the most complicated and special unit on any car-costs 2-5k.
What got me real curious was that you said you did the job for 300?? All that labor you described? If you did your own labor and are valuing it at zero, then I understand.
But BMW is not going to give you the tank free and let you DIY. Nor is their limited ed. stainless tank going out the door at a reduced cost.

What really rang a responsive cord was your questioning the stupidity of BMW to put such a car out there? I'd love to corner the guy who made this decision for a good heart to heart. It makes no sense.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:22 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Everyone here needs to understand this SULEV issue is not just BMW. I am not sure any US manufacturers had SULEV, but I know many Japanese manufacturers had them.
A brilliant treatise and philosophizing!
I learned more than I knew before.
Thanks
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #69
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I have not heard of anyone having to pay the 6 to 9K to replace a fuel tank. The info I have found here from searching indicates BMW comes through but not before a fight sometimes. My 2004 325 Ci is at 98,000 and I wonder each time I start it. So far so good. Did you know these SULEV have a full blown 330 intake all the way to the head. The intake was to compensate for a additional set of cats causing lose of horsepower. A different CCV....very simple. The fuel tank and fuel delivery...stainless steel all the way to the special injectors. Is it fast..nah. Quick...well sorta. Does it look good going slow or fast...sitting still. Oh yah. It about the driving experience to me, SULEV or not.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:29 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Stinger9 View Post
What got me real curious was that you said you did the job for 300?? All that labor you described? If you did your own labor and are valuing it at zero, then I understand.
But BMW is not going to give you the tank free and let you DIY. Nor is their limited ed. stainless tank going out the door at a reduced cost.

What really rang a responsive cord was your questioning the stupidity of BMW to put such a car out there? I'd love to corner the guy who made this decision for a good heart to heart. It makes no sense.
I guess i underestimated the complexity of servicing the same area on a 20 yo car but a new or refurbished tank on an e30 is about $100. Labor on an e30 is fairly straight forward since we deal with only a few bolts an no sensors (took 2 hours for my mechanic to replace my trans) . I guess i have the last honest mechanic who doesnt charge me 1 labor hour on spending 10 mins to remove an exhaust.

Also, regarding the stupidity of bmw... seriously wtfff... if dealerships told the customer the straight up risks and costs involved with buying that version of the car (which they dont cause they can care less), no customer would be stupid enough to buy it.

Its like when i stupidly bought my 325xi in cali (where there is no need) based on the fact that its slightly safer, i felt ripped off when i realized there never was a situation i needed the awd yet i am stuck here paying the additional costs of the specialty parts and service

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Bimmer App

Last edited by bmwstephen; 04-12-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:32 PM   #71
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My SULEV

I like her....and really like the 30 MPG.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:47 PM   #72
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I like my SULEV too. The CCV was simplified and doesn't require servicing, the complete fuel system is stainless steel, and the ENTIRE emissions system is covered under the 15/150k warranty according to the BMW release bulletin. The downside is that the fuel filter is not replaceable and once the warranty runs out, you're SOL.

It's tunable and (in my opinion) they sound better than the M54B25 cars once you unplug the vacuum line in the exhaust. Last I knew, the 2.5 M54s didn't have the valve...which would mean that the M56s were louder so they needed it to comply with noise regulations
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #73
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I like her....and really like the 30 MPG.
You got a good looking car. Always liked white.

And I really like the extra power in my 330 and the 32 mpg.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:56 PM   #74
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As a side note, I did spend a lot of time researching this issue a while back, not everything is fresh in the memory bank, but I also believe the batteries for all the hybrid cars also fall under the SULEV 15 year/150k mile warranty as stipulated by the federal government.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Old 04-12-2012, 08:05 PM   #75
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The Hybrids are SULEV and have the 15 year/150K mile warranty. Gal at work has one. 9k for a gas tank and fuel pump filter. Wait till these folks start replacing electric motors and batteries.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:24 PM   #76
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Honda hybrid batteries are only 8years/80k. I guess not all fall under that law. About $3500 to replace customer pay. There goes all that gas you saved!
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #77
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Another SULEV question...

It's illegal to put non SULEV parts in a car that is SULEV... but what if you swap out the engine? Take an M56 engine out and replace it w/ an M54... what's the legality there?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #78
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Another SULEV question...

It's illegal to put non SULEV parts in a car that is SULEV... but what if you swap out the engine? Take an M56 engine out and replace it w/ an M54... what's the legality there?
It would most likely be a difficult swap. You'd run into computer problems. The M56 apparently has a dedicated ECU for the fuel system, almost like a standalone system.

That being said, I've fiddled with mine and still passed smog. I had a K&N panel and I removed the HC filter in the top of the air box, but the purpose of that filter is to prevent HC back flow.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:31 PM   #79
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Secret Service has a special Sulev Compliance Branch. The will come and get you and track down your emissions. Oh, I forgot, they have their hands full down in Columbia.......... Modify away!
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:41 PM   #80
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Secret Service has a special Sulev Compliance Branch. The will come and get you and track down your emissions. Oh, I forgot, they have their hands full down in Columbia.......... Modify away!
Speak not of which you do not know. We live in California...we have the strictest emissions standards anywhere. They inspect everything, including the underside of the car to make sure you still have cats.
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