E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > ///M3 Forum

///M3 Forum
The BMW E46 ///M3 is the M version E46 and puts out an amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque at stock specs! There are an amazing amount of modifications for both the coupe and convertible models so read up and get started modifying your cars today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-16-2017, 12:46 PM   #1
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Budget brake upgrade for E46 m3?

What's up guys, I've been looking into upgrading the brakes on my car but I'm unsure what to get. The stock brakes aren't really cutting it. I'm also going to get a track member ship in the next month or so. I'd like to keep it at or under $1200, suggestions?

Last edited by Solidjake; 04-16-2017 at 12:55 PM.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 04-16-2017, 12:56 PM   #2
Solidjake
Zero. Leaks.
 
Solidjake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 30,932
My Ride: '02 330i 6MT
We don't need to know what you do driving your car so do not post that information here.

How is the maintenance on the car? I've been reading your threads and it looks like you have a lot of ideas floating around. Being 17 I would SAVE UP. M3's are NOT cheap......


Look into stoptech

Last edited by Solidjake; 04-16-2017 at 12:56 PM.
Solidjake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 01:25 PM   #3
Alan
Registered User
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,884
My Ride: 2006 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by i<3e46m3 View Post
What's up guys, I've been looking into upgrading the brakes on my car but I'm unsure what to get. The stock brakes aren't really cutting it. I'm also going to get a track member ship in the next month or so. I'd like to keep it at or under $1200, suggestions?

Be specific.
__________________

Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 01:35 PM   #4
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
maintenance is perfect, I have money set aside for maintenance so that won't be an issue if anything comes up. I just got coil overs and tires so brakes are next on my list. My brake pedal has hit the floor after I'm out driving for a bit and I've had to get a pair of new pants more than once because of this and the rotors are done so I'm trying to decide if a bbk is the route to take or better pads and rotors.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 01:45 PM   #5
PreludeGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 114
My Ride: E46
If your OEM M3 brakes aren't cutting it for daily driving, there is something else wrong. Even OEM pads and rotors should not have this happen while driving on the streets.
__________________

Last edited by PreludeGuy; 04-16-2017 at 01:46 PM.
PreludeGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 01:48 PM   #6
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeGuy View Post
If your OEM M3 brakes aren't cutting it for daily driving, there is something else wrong.
I don't think so, I changed all my fluids less than a month ago, no leaks. I just go out and drive pretty aggressively when there's no traffic. what else would be an issue?

Last edited by i<3e46m3; 04-16-2017 at 01:48 PM.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 02:29 PM   #7
YoitsTmac
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: California
Posts: 1,597
My Ride: 328Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeGuy View Post
If your OEM M3 brakes aren't cutting it for daily driving, there is something else wrong. Even OEM pads and rotors should not have this happen while driving on the streets.
Realistically, I don't think you could sell a performance car with brakes that can't handle stop go traffic. Surely you(OP) can agree with that. You don't need a BBK to handle traffic (assuming I'm understanding the issue correctly)

Last edited by YoitsTmac; 04-16-2017 at 02:30 PM.
YoitsTmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 02:35 PM   #8
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
Realistically, I don't think you could sell a performance car with brakes that can't handle stop go traffic. Surely you(OP) can agree with that. You don't need a BBK to handle traffic (assuming I'm understanding the issue correctly)
No I absolutely agree with that, but the issue isn't during stop and go it's stopping power after hauling ass.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 03:23 PM   #9
Darios e46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Deltona fl
Posts: 150
My Ride: 2003 325i sedan
You still should t have an issue with stock brakes.... they were made to be able to handle the power of the car Bmw wouldn't put brakes on it if they couldn't stop the car...there is another issue here weather it's you not knowing how to drive the car or if you have an actual brake problem


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
Darios e46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 03:32 PM   #10
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darios e46 View Post
You still should t have an issue with stock brakes.... they were made to be able to handle the power of the car Bmw wouldn't put brakes on it if they couldn't stop the car...there is another issue here weather it's you not knowing how to drive the car or if you have an actual brake problem


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
The only times it's happened is when I brake hard coming down from 125-130. and the bakes are fairly worn. So like I said it's not so much stop and go, I drive like an idiot. But I'm more focused on getting the right brakes for when I start going to the track. So if you guys could give me a specific setup and price for light to moderate tracking I'd appreciate it.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 03:34 PM   #11
Darios e46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Deltona fl
Posts: 150
My Ride: 2003 325i sedan
I would suggest down shifting at that high of a speed rather then slamming on the brakes


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
Darios e46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 04:56 PM   #12
Alan
Registered User
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,884
My Ride: 2006 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by i<3e46m3 View Post
The only times it's happened is when I brake hard coming down from 125-130. and the bakes are fairly worn. So like I said it's not so much stop and go, I drive like an idiot. But I'm more focused on getting the right brakes for when I start going to the track. So if you guys could give me a specific setup and price for light to moderate tracking I'd appreciate it.

So you are:

1. Knowingly driving on worn brake components likely below minimum

2. "Driving like an idiot" on those worn brake system components

3. Late braking at very high speed on worn brake components

And you don't understand what is wrong.


There is nothing wrong with your brakes. What is wrong is YOU. You knowingly fail to maintain your brakes, drive crazy on them at very high speeds, brake stupid late on a brake system poorly maintained and you think that upgrading your brakes is the answer.

Put OEM rotors and pads on your car (not some off-brand discount or "dual purpose" crud. Flush the fluid with quality spec fluid.

Then go drive. Those brakes will be fine for the street and starting HPDEs.

You do not need a BBK for either.

If you are going to have to pass Tech inspection for any respectable HPDE organization - you need to start maintaining your car. Chances are that it won't pass Tech even after the brakes are done.
__________________

Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 05:07 PM   #13
nealfromnz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 146
My Ride: 2002 e46
1200 doesn't get a lot of extra braking unless you find some AP / Brembos / stoptechs ( in this order btw) .

Perhaps csl rotors / caplier adaptors with a track day orientented pads might fit the budget.

Others there are a few posts of e46 m3 running BMW performance calipers from the 135is with an adaptor and different rotor.

I'd disregard the other posts here in talking up the ability of the stock M3 brakes once you start doing track days ( as you stated) They are the weak link in the cars performance and do go off after a number of hard laps.
nealfromnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 05:25 PM   #14
Alan
Registered User
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,884
My Ride: 2006 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealfromnz View Post
1200 doesn't get a lot of extra braking unless you find some AP / Brembos / stoptechs ( in this order btw) .

Perhaps csl rotors / caplier adaptors with a track day orientented pads might fit the budget.

Others there are a few posts of e46 m3 running BMW performance calipers from the 135is with an adaptor and different rotor.

I'd disregard the other posts here in talking up the ability of the stock M3 brakes once you start doing track days ( as you stated) They are the weak link in the cars performance and do go off after a number of hard laps.

That is invented manure.

A starting HPDE student is working on the basics for a LOT of weekends - not trying for the non-existent HPDE Challenge Trophy.

Tell me what track you are driving that the OEM brake system with new components is not enough to stop the car for a Novice HPDE student.

Here is the U.S. - walk through the paddock and see what brake systems E46 M3 drivers are actually using - quite successfully.

Once his Instructor see brakes being something he needs to think about changing pads for - he can do just that.

And to your advice that he consider CSL rotors. For the track? Really???? Most anyone who has even seen what happens to drilled rotors after 1-2 track days knows better. Which is why such an obvious bad recommendation from you makes anyone question any of your recommendations.
__________________

Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 06:01 PM   #15
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
So you are:

1. Knowingly driving on worn brake components likely below minimum

2. "Driving like an idiot" on those worn brake system components

3. Late braking at very high speed on worn brake components

And you don't understand what is wrong.


There is nothing wrong with your brakes. What is wrong is YOU. You knowingly fail to maintain your brakes, drive crazy on them at very high speeds, brake stupid late on a brake system poorly maintained and you think that upgrading your brakes is the answer.

Put OEM rotors and pads on your car (not some off-brand discount or "dual purpose" crud. Flush the fluid with quality spec fluid.

Then go drive. Those brakes will be fine for the street and starting HPDEs.

You do not need a BBK for either.

If you are going to have to pass Tech inspection for any respectable HPDE organization - you need to start maintaining your car. Chances are that it won't pass Tech even after the brakes are done.
I don't understand why people on forums always feel the need to word their responses in such a rude way. While I respect and require your all knowing knowledge I'm not to a point in my life where I can do nothing but ride forums and drive my car as much as I'd like to gain the necessary knowledge to the point I don't have to ask questions you may deem idiotic. Please refer to my previous response where I noted my car Is update to date on it's maintenance, I have not failed to maintain anything on it. The rotors are worn not metal on metal or non functioning ( generally ) they are to the point where I'm figuring out what I'd like to get next (that's me maintaining them) oriented towards track driving. I haven't claimed to be a professional driver or all knowing, which is why I made this post in hopes of getting some information on a decent track/street setup .

Here's what I've come to. It fits my budget and seems like a happy medium.

1. Cross-Drilled & Floating Brake Rotors - Rear - E46 M3 US/Euro/CSL/ZCP
2Cross-Drilled & Floating Brake Rotors - Rear - E46 M3 US/Euro/CSL/ZCP
3.Hawk Street/Race Brake Pads - Front -
4.Hawk Street Race Brake Pads - Rear -

Thoughts?

Last edited by i<3e46m3; 04-16-2017 at 09:13 PM.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 09:11 PM   #16
Foxape
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 16
My Ride: 04 Black 325i Sport
Get the Stoptech brake kit from FCP Euro. Slotted rotors, Hawk pads, and stainless steel brake lines. It's about $650 last I checked.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using E46Fanatics mobile app
Foxape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 09:13 PM   #17
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxape View Post
Get the Stoptech brake kit from FCP Euro. Slotted rotors, Hawk pads, and stainless steel brake lines. It's about $650 last I checked.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using E46Fanatics mobile app
Would you mind linking me I went to fcp euro and looked under brake kits with no luck. Thanks
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 09:24 PM   #18
Alan
Registered User
 
Alan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,884
My Ride: 2006 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by i<3e46m3 View Post
I don't understand why people on forums always feel the need to word their responses in such a rude way. While I respect and require you're all knowing knowledge I'm not to a point in my life where I can do nothing but ride forums and drive my car as much as I'd like to gain the necessary knowledge to the point I don't have to ask questions you may deem idiotic. Please refer to my previous response where I noted my car Is update to date on it's maintenance, I have not failed to maintain anything on it. The rotors are worn not metal on metal or non functioning ( generally ) they are to the point where I'm figuring out what I'd like to get next (that's me maintaining them) oriented towards track driving. I haven't claimed to be a professional driver or all knowing, which is why I made this post in hopes of getting some information on a decent TRACK ORIENTED SETUP.
As stated earlier - a fresh OEM configuration. Read your organization's Tech Inspection sheet for their minimum requirements (brake fluid age, pad thickness etc). Make sure your rotors are well above minimum thickness starting.

Walk into the HPDE organization that you are considering running with (BMWCCA, PCA etc). Ask the classroom Instructor during a break and tell them that you are considering changing your brake system components to some "upgraded" track setup before you start HPDEs.

A fresh OEM brake rotor/pad/fluid setup will activate ABS when you threshold brake. That means that you have more brake system effectiveness than tire. You can try to upgrade to track pads (PFC-08 etc etc etc) and PFC DD rotors ($$$) and live with track pad downsides during the 98% driving that you do every day on the street (unless you plan to swap pads before and after every HPDE).

The weak point of a well-maintained E46 M3 on the track - is the driver.
__________________

Alan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 11:42 PM   #19
i<3e46m3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: atlanta
Posts: 31
My Ride: 2004 e46 m3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
As stated earlier - a fresh OEM configuration. Read your organization's Tech Inspection sheet for their minimum requirements (brake fluid age, pad thickness etc). Make sure your rotors are well above minimum thickness starting.

Walk into the HPDE organization that you are considering running with (BMWCCA, PCA etc). Ask the classroom Instructor during a break and tell them that you are considering changing your brake system components to some "upgraded" track setup before you start HPDEs.

A fresh OEM brake rotor/pad/fluid setup will activate ABS when you threshold brake. That means that you have more brake system effectiveness than tire. You can try to upgrade to track pads (PFC-08 etc etc etc) and PFC DD rotors ($$$) and live with track pad downsides during the 98% driving that you do every day on the street (unless you plan to swap pads before and after every HPDE).

The weak point of a well-maintained E46 M3 on the track - is the driver.
Thanks for the advice man much appreciated.
i<3e46m3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2017, 03:48 AM   #20
nealfromnz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 146
My Ride: 2002 e46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
That is invented manure.

A starting HPDE student is working on the basics for a LOT of weekends - not trying for the non-existent HPDE Challenge Trophy.

Tell me what track you are driving that the OEM brake system with new components is not enough to stop the car for a Novice HPDE student.

Here is the U.S. - walk through the paddock and see what brake systems E46 M3 drivers are actually using - quite successfully.

Once his Instructor see brakes being something he needs to think about changing pads for - he can do just that.

And to your advice that he consider CSL rotors. For the track? Really???? Most anyone who has even seen what happens to drilled rotors after 1-2 track days knows better. Which is why such an obvious bad recommendation from you makes anyone question any of your recommendations.
Suggested the csl rotors due to budget specied . Very good quality and a good upsize on factory.

On the Drilled rotor comments I'll take with a gain of salt. First you where saying that factory system was fine for track work and talking up the virtues. Don't know about US HPDD but here you often get to do free lap sessions after.

The factory euro M3 brakes start going off after 5 or 6 laps (context three straights of 180 /210 kmh down to second gear corners on two occasions) yet an one of the HPDE f30 120d with BMW performance brakes will easily go twice as far before a cool down is required . Hence comment on getting second hand 135is caliper and large rotor combo)
Mates AP brakes better still . He could go round until the factory cooling system became the point of rest. More of a Group A setup though and brakes too noisy for everyday use.

I have 3 drivers days and 6 track days on my current set of cross drilled rotors and 40,000kms of normal use. No spider cracking , warping or anything like that. Brakes are still good and the cars main use is a daily driver.

I put it down to the experience passed on during a hpde day where I had the privilege of having a one of our top Porsche cup & endurance racers for quite a few sessions.

Apart for the obvious of how to conserve braking and carry corner speed his secret to rotor longevity was how to cool them down.

Most of the cracking and warping in his opinion was caused by the hot pads being left to cool down on the same section of rotor. On his endurance Porsche he'd park it in the pit in gear and then more it forward slightly a number of times to ensure the pad heat wasn't overheating the rotor. Works for him and seems to be working for me.

Btw, Porsche Cup cars and GT3 use cross drilled rotorsI don't see these failing every second track day or event. Quite a bit of FUD on the internet on these failing. Suspect if your seeing issues at BMW events then the basics aren't been taught.

Finally, your advice on your last post was actually good. Just don't be so quick to dismiss others ( ops, did that with your post didn't I ;-) ) you where coming across as one of those know it all driving instructors that many of us has met and avoid.

Last edited by nealfromnz; 04-17-2017 at 03:52 AM.
nealfromnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use