E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-30-2014, 10:28 AM   #201
therealpbgamer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 34
My Ride: 2002 330ci
This thread is amazing. I want those gains. I would do this if i didn't have to machine the head to match the manifold ports =/. I'm about to put schrick cams in, but i have stock ms43 dme and need a tune, not sure how the manifold would do..
therealpbgamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2014, 02:03 PM   #202
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
If you have to put cams in, it's not much more work to do the port matching.

Easier than what I'm doing right now anyway.




Yes, that's a 0.508mm feeler gauge fitting loosely in the top compression ring gap of my race engine.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.

Last edited by SoloII///M; 10-30-2014 at 03:00 PM.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 07:24 AM   #203
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
Well, we are still struggling to understand why the car is down on power compared to the twin car that this setup is based off of.

I did a compression test on the engine and all the cylinders were between 175 and 190. I did a leakdown and all the cylinders were between 4% and 8%. So by all rights the engine should be healthy. one thing of concern is that it burns quite a bit of oil. As it turns out, the valve stem seals are bad on this engine. Not surprising given the abuse it has taken over the years and the number of years it was sitting before we purchased it. So next weekend I'll be installing new valve seals and re-timing the cams. During the last round of dyno testing we wanted a little more advance on the exhaust cam, so hopefully re-centering them will give us a little extra range.
I suppose I should close the loop on this a bit.

Although replacing the valve stem seals eliminated quite a bit of the oil smoke, the engine was still burning oil. And the fact that I could never get the torque numbers up to Doug's engine bothered me. I did a bunch more compression and leakdown tests to back up the numbers I had gotten previously. Did them hot and cold to check. Added oil to the cylinders, etc. Compared to Doug's motor, I am way down in compression. Like 30-40 psi.

Doug's motor is a BMW factory reman, built with overbore pistons to the maximum size in the TIS, with low hours on it. So I know it's a good engine.

I ended up deciding to pull my engine. The trans needed to come out to do the detent pin replacement anyway, and the car has a thousand oil leaks (you name it, it has it) that would be more easily addressed with the engine out.

When I got the engine torn down and looked at the first piston ring I knew there was a problem. I tore the rest of them out and checked all of the ring gaps. Every top ring gap was greater than 0.55mm. A few of them were over 0.60mm. Every second ring gap except one (oddly) was greater than 0.60mm. The only one that wasn't was 0.22mm, which is strangely close to the lower limit.

As far as bore condition, my piston skirts measured in at 84.200-84.21mm. The bores they came out of were 84.4 or greater, and all of them were ovaled to the tune of .015mm or so.

So, not one thing within spec.

Where I am now is I found a replacement, stock bore block to use as a starting point. The pistons I have (BMW factory overbore) are extremely expensive and are in good shape, so I'm going to reuse them. I'll re-use my bottom end rotating assembly and rods and transfer it all over to the new block, which is currently being machined down at Abacus racing in Virginia Beach. They have the deck plate needed to do a perfect final hone on the block and they have a lot of experience building BMW race engines so I'm not concerned about the work being done correctly.

Meantime, I'm looking at the cylinder head. The intake valves all look really good. The exhausts, as you might expect, looked pretty rough. But after a lot of cleaning on my wire wheel and re-lapping into the seats, everything will be usable. I'm not allowed to do any real porting or polishing - I can't touch anything past 1" into the ports, but it's tempting to knock down the big lump in the rearmost side of the exhaust ports. What the heck is that for, anyway?

Hopefully once this engine is built and back in the car I can actually generate some torque with this monster. The lack of cylinder pressure has likely been the cause of that torque deficit all along.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	engine.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	96.8 KB
ID:	579731   Click image for larger version

Name:	valves1.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	49.5 KB
ID:	579732   Click image for larger version

Name:	valves2.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	64.2 KB
ID:	579733  
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 07:49 AM   #204
unevolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 654
My Ride: 2003 325i
That sucks you've gotta rebuild, but at least you found a solution. It's always frustrating when you can't figure out what's causing your problems.
__________________


In a bacon and egg sandwich, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. Be that pig.
unevolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 12:26 PM   #205
Iceman00
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,851
My Ride: E90 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
I suppose I should close the loop on this a bit.

Although replacing the valve stem seals eliminated quite a bit of the oil smoke, the engine was still burning oil. And the fact that I could never get the torque numbers up to Doug's engine bothered me. I did a bunch more compression and leakdown tests to back up the numbers I had gotten previously. Did them hot and cold to check. Added oil to the cylinders, etc. Compared to Doug's motor, I am way down in compression. Like 30-40 psi.

Doug's motor is a BMW factory reman, built with overbore pistons to the maximum size in the TIS, with low hours on it. So I know it's a good engine.

I ended up deciding to pull my engine. The trans needed to come out to do the detent pin replacement anyway, and the car has a thousand oil leaks (you name it, it has it) that would be more easily addressed with the engine out.

When I got the engine torn down and looked at the first piston ring I knew there was a problem. I tore the rest of them out and checked all of the ring gaps. Every top ring gap was greater than 0.55mm. A few of them were over 0.60mm. Every second ring gap except one (oddly) was greater than 0.60mm. The only one that wasn't was 0.22mm, which is strangely close to the lower limit.

As far as bore condition, my piston skirts measured in at 84.200-84.21mm. The bores they came out of were 84.4 or greater, and all of them were ovaled to the tune of .015mm or so.

So, not one thing within spec.

Where I am now is I found a replacement, stock bore block to use as a starting point. The pistons I have (BMW factory overbore) are extremely expensive and are in good shape, so I'm going to reuse them. I'll re-use my bottom end rotating assembly and rods and transfer it all over to the new block, which is currently being machined down at Abacus racing in Virginia Beach. They have the deck plate needed to do a perfect final hone on the block and they have a lot of experience building BMW race engines so I'm not concerned about the work being done correctly.

Meantime, I'm looking at the cylinder head. The intake valves all look really good. The exhausts, as you might expect, looked pretty rough. But after a lot of cleaning on my wire wheel and re-lapping into the seats, everything will be usable. I'm not allowed to do any real porting or polishing - I can't touch anything past 1" into the ports, but it's tempting to knock down the big lump in the rearmost side of the exhaust ports. What the heck is that for, anyway?

Hopefully once this engine is built and back in the car I can actually generate some torque with this monster. The lack of cylinder pressure has likely been the cause of that torque deficit all along.
Awesome, but why where the cylinders ovaled out? Is there some strange harmonic factors that are attributed to that?

You'll probably be above FBO N52 numbers after this.
__________________
Yolo420swag360noscopeboomheadshot
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 01:43 PM   #206
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
Ovaling is common in BMW engines.

the piston loads the side of the bore (along the short side of the engine) during each combustion event. So the top of the bore tends to become an oval, whereas at BDC it tends to stay round.

By the way, the spec for that per the BMW TIS is less than or equal to 0.005mm difference in bore, comparing the measurement along the length of the engine against the measurement across the engine. 0.005mm. or about .0002". It's challenging to measure that. And certainly any engine that was honed without a deck plate on it has a risk of not being round anyway.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 01:46 PM   #207
unevolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 654
My Ride: 2003 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
By the way, the spec for that per the BMW TIS is less than or equal to 0.005mm difference in bore, comparing the measurement along the length of the engine against the measurement across the engine. 0.005mm. or about .0002". It's challenging to measure that. And certainly any engine that was honed without a deck plate on it has a risk of not being round anyway.
Wow. That's extremely tight. I work with some pretty tight tolerances at work, and it still amazes me to see how tight some engines are built. Kinda makes you appreciate modern manufacturing. Not many things out there that are mass produced with sub-thou tolerances.
__________________


In a bacon and egg sandwich, the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. Be that pig.
unevolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 10:44 AM   #208
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
Definitely helps me understand how there are E46s that go through a quart of oil every 1,000 miles straight from the factory, then there are ones that don't use a drop over the course of a 7,500 mile interval (like my old ZHP). A little bit of extra blowby is all it takes to start losing oil at an alarming rate, and the allowable ring gap out of the factory is pretty wide.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 03:54 PM   #209
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,370
My Ride: 328i Sport
Wow with that ring gap. What's the mileage?
__________________
Genuine New Parts FS
CCV valve

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 04:54 PM   #210
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
7,400 on the chassis. Don't know on the engine. Maybe 5,000.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.

Last edited by SoloII///M; 11-05-2014 at 05:04 PM.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 09:53 AM   #211
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,370
My Ride: 328i Sport
99% of those miles must've been at over 6,000 RPM! Even then that seems a little young. When that block was honed, did u get to see the procedure, and did u see a torque plate in place? Seemingly trivial question I'm just curious about.
__________________
Genuine New Parts FS
CCV valve

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 03:31 PM   #212
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
The engine rebuild was done years before I bought the car.

The new block is being bored then honed with the torque plate.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 09:00 AM   #213
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,370
My Ride: 328i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
The engine rebuild was done years before I bought the car.

The new block is being bored then honed with the torque plate.
Oh ok, I thought you had all of this done during your ownership.
__________________
Genuine New Parts FS
CCV valve

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 07:47 PM   #214
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
So I got around to measuring the bores of the engine today. The cylinders are pretty consistent from TDC to BDC. All of them are around 84.32mm. The (factory overbore) pistons measure 84.2mm.

The TIS specifies that the piston clearance should be between 0.01 and 0.04mm. Mine are 0.12 (average). This technically meets with the max spec, which is 0.15mm. Problem is, even a new, un-filed factory overbore Mahle ring in a 84.32mm bore measures 0.5-0.6mm gap. That's outside the allowable 0.2-0.4mm spec.

Doing a little (Pi*diameter) math, if the bore were sized correctly for the pistons, i.e. 84.21 to 84.24mm, that would close up the ring gap by about three times the difference between that and my current bore. 84.32-84.21 = .11. 0.11 * 3.14 =~ 0.33. That would close up my ring gap to right on the tight end of the spec.

Just goes to show how precisely the machine work needs to be done to maximize compression on an engine.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 08:23 PM   #215
Rob43
Hates Low RPM !
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 4,282
My Ride: 03 331Ci 5spd R1200R
I'll throw you a bone.


Rob43
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	valves2.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	272.1 KB
ID:	580372  
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

Need Help With Your Nitrous Ambitions ?.....PM ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 06:06 AM   #216
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
Rob, I've thought about it, but I'm not sure it's legal for my class. I don't see anything in the BMW documentation about doing it.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 08:33 AM   #217
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,370
My Ride: 328i Sport
If there are no restrictions you may as well do more than just a 35 cut. I'd do 4-5 angles on those valves, and back-cut the exhaust valves to around 12-13. Back-cuts are cuts on the chamber side of the valve, not the top side that air flows over.
__________________
Genuine New Parts FS
CCV valve

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 08:45 AM   #218
SoloII///M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 533
My Ride: Many
Not legal for my class, so no extra valve work for me.
__________________
John V
'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.
SoloII///M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use