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E46 M3 AA Stage 2 - Issues With Idle After ECU Update

12K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  triksterut 
#1 ·
Hey all,

So I've been having some issues. I got the Stage 2 setup installed and drove it around with the previous Stage 1.5 tune. It was a little "laggy" on the throttle but it ran great. I got the Stage 2 base tune from Active and flashed it using their Simon tool - now I can't get the thing to idle or return to idle. Sometimes it will be fine then it will just start having issues. I was supposed to go dyno tune it today but I don't want to strap it on the dyno with any issues.

Here are some video's showing my issue:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63602968@N08/8034168840/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63602968@N08/8034168935/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63602968@N08/8034168728/

It's possible that it had this issue with the Stage 1.5 tune and I didn't notice since I only drove it a few times - but after driving this thing around with the Stage 2 tune I KNOW I would have noticed. It's almost un-driveable.

Zak over at Active has sent me 2 tunes in an attempt to fix the idle. They've had no effect except for maybe increasing the idle RPM's. He seems at a loss (which worries me) LOL.

I. We've hooked it up to a nice Snapon smoke machine to pump pressurized smoke into the system and there are no leaks
II. FPR reads a nice 52psi at idle with no vacuum (per Active spec)
III. The car only has 43k miles on it; I can't see the IAC valve dying like that since it was perfect.
IV. I'm sure all the coils are good or it would run like crap. But, at speed, it's fine.
V. No trouble codes or mis-fires. Although I'm shocked given how rough the idle is at times.

Any help would be appreciated! :) Thanks all.

Jeremy
 
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#3 · (Edited)
How does ur AFR looks? Crapped out o2's

Edit: Saw the First VIDEO. I would get a Wideband gauge to show u what is going on. When u restart do u get a cloud of black smoke?
 
#5 ·
did you reset your adaptation after you put the new tune?
This is on the list of things to try. Is there a way to do this that doesn't involve a trip to the dealer? :)

Saw the First VIDEO. I would get a Wideband gauge to show u what is going on. When u restart do u get a cloud of black smoke?
I'm getting a wide band; I was hopeful that with the plug and play nature of the kit that I wouldn't need it. But now I'm nervous and want one for sure :) I'm going to order the stealth mirror AEM guages; probably take a week or two - have to see if I can borrow one in the mean time. There do not appear to be any clouds of smoke (like it's running way way rich).

I don't think it's a bad O2 - it runs fine up top and I'm pulling no codes. If my O2 was bad it would run like crap all over the place I think.

Thanks for the leads guys. Seems to be check the AFR's :)
 
#10 ·
Hey all,

Just an update on this; still working with Zak over at Active we've gone through a few tunes (5 or so) nothing really helping a lot. It does, in fact, idle and such with the 1.5 tune - but runs too rich and backfires a tad (as would be expected) but I can't make it die.

So, when I first installed the the Stage 1.5 (previous to that I was NA) we cleared the adaptations. The Active software actually completely disables the adaptations. I just ordered the nifty rear view mirror PLX system that Scott over at http://www.radar-mirror.com sells with a wide-band and boost gauge. Also ordered the PLX Kiwi so I can log all my fuel trims and what not. That should help us figure out what's up.
 
#16 ·
Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay; had to go out of town and I'm just now getting back to it. First, I went to a local shop close to me and used both a Snapon Motec unit, and an Autologic unit to reset both the throttle and VANOS adaptations. After plugging in my nifty PLX Kiwi OBD2 reader - it still showed long term fuel trims. I just got back from the actual BMW dealership and got to watch the shop foreman actually use the shop computer to do the same thing and run an "Idle Synchronization" procedure. The local shop guys were dicks and charged me $100 bucks for 15 minutes. The BMW dealership charged me for their actual 1/2 hour of work it was nice. But I still have the same issue.

Sometimes it idles great. Then it doesn't. I can't seem to find a pattern or routine. So, now back to square one. I would replace my IAC valve but it worked perfectly prior to my Stage 2 upgrade and my car has 40k miles on it. The BMW shop guys say those things very rarely go bad. It's like a $50 part so I'm going to order one anyway. But I have no idea what to do next.

As I have the same issue on my car, I would love to know the solution you found
Epic - Are you running Stage 2? Did you upgrade from a previous kit? What have you tried?

Ugh.
 
#19 ·
Epic - Are you running Stage 2? Did you upgrade from a previous kit? What have you tried?
I had a Stage 1.5 for 2 years, the car was running perfectly fine, no issue at all.

Then I upgraded to Stage 2 a month ago. I first started the car with the Stage 1.5 tune to check if everything was ok before flashing the DME with the Stage 2 tune.
The car started instantaneously, the idle was perfect, no issue at all except that the car was running rich because of the new injectors.

Then I put the Stage 2 tune, and now my idle is not stable and the car sometimes stall coming to a stop.
I've checked my AFR, everything is fine when I drive the car, it's around 14.7 at stabilized speed and slowing climbing from 10.8 to 11.8 when I do a pull.
But at idle my AFR is around 17 which is way too lean.

Is it the tune or something else, I don't know.


Didn't had time to do more about the issue, except sending a mail to AA, but no response yet.
 
#17 ·
Strange that it sometimes idles good and sometimes it doesn't. Have you pressure tested the system? I would perform a smoke test just to be sure.

Also, check the hose that connects to the ICV

<img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2559/idlecontrolvalvehosee46.jpg">
 
#18 ·
Yeah, the inconsistency is really the odd thing here. Although it doesn't idle more than it idles. For example, when I took it to the dealership this morning it started and ran perfectly. Didn't die or idle surge once in the 30 minute trip. Then, on my way home from the dealership I couldn't keep it running. I've run a nice snapon smoke machine on it and there are no leaks. I just visually inspected that hose and it looks new (the car has 40k miles on it). I'm pretty sure it's something up with the tune but I really can't get a feel until I get me AFR's (wide band on the way). It idles bad enough that it would have to be a major leak; that would certainly have shown up under smoke.
 
#22 ·
Man, I'm really getting frustrated. HPF with an AEM is sounding pretty damn good right about now.

I rigged up a system to pressure test my engine in lieu of a smoke machine (didn't want to wait for my friend to come up next weekend). I pressurized my system and fixed what could have been a minor boost leak - but probably not a vacuum leak. Now everything is solid under pressure. No leaks of any kind. Didn't make a bit of difference. I pull 15 in/Hg at cold idle. That seems rather low; but I think that may be an effect of the altitude (5500ft ish)?

I haven't gotten my wide band yet, but Epic's post sounds so close to mine I wouldn't be surprised if his readings are the same as mine. I think the only reason the 1.5 tune idles is because it's REALLY rich at idle.

In logging the OBD2 data from my car (PLX Kiwi FTW) - I observe my short term fuel trims are pretty high at idle. 25-40% positive fuel trim on all four banks. I noticed my fuel pressure was high at idle (50psi) and I was getting short term fuel trims in the 20-30% range. After I adjusted it to the spec'd 42psi I get the higher fuel trims as expected (needs to add even more fuel). It's also odd to watch my O2 voltages. They go from really lean to really rich - not much in the middle. Something is making dramatic knee-jerk corrections.

Now, as I understand it - this is usually indicative of a vacuum leak. This is because more air is entering the system than the ECU is anticipating and the O2 sensor reading is lean. So the ECU adds more fuel (via short term fuel trim) to attempt to correct this lean condition.

I'm REALLY sure I don't have a leak of any kind. A nice snapon smoke machine and my pressure test are pretty conclusive. So, either one of two things is happening - more air is coming in than the tune anticipates OR the tune is just really crappy and not delivering enough fuel given the larger injectors (could be altitude but I'm sure people with Stage 2 kits live in Denver and other high elevation places).

Now, as a logical person, I'm trying to think that if Active had this problem a lot in their Stage 2 kits we'd hear about it. But, I bet they sell a lot of Stage 1 and Stage 2 kit's - and perhaps even some Stage 1 - Stage 2 upgrades - and not as many Stage 1.5 -> 2 upgrade "kits". I'm guessing the issue is here somewhere. They send something or something is different when you get a full Stage 2 kit vs the Stage 1.5 upgrade.

I went from a Gen 6 Stage 1.5 kit to a Gen 7 Stage 2 kit. This included the new fuel system (fuel rail, lines, inline fuel pump), meth system, pully, larger injectors, and a new "log style" intake manifold. I took my bypass valves off my old square Gen 6 manifold and put them on the new one.

The only theory I have now is those bypass valves. I'm running a much smaller pulley on that supercharger now and it's positively pressurizing the intake a bit more than it used too (I assume). If those bypass valves are still setup for X (from the 1.5) - could I be over-over pressuring the manifold and adding more air than it anticipates? Other than that, I can only assume a bad base tune. Ugh.

What else could go wrong or be missed when you go from 1.5->2 instead of starting at 2 or going from 1-2? I'm on my 6th idle correction tune with no real difference (the ECU still has to add up to 40% fuel).
 
#27 · (Edited)
Man, I'm really getting frustrated. HPF with an AEM is sounding pretty damn good right about now.

It's funny 'cause I was going for a HPF Stage 2 kit but I canceled my order at the last minute thinking that I should just upgrade to AA Stage 2 as I already had the Stage 1.5 installed.

In the end I think I made a big mistake simply to spare some money, and I start to regret my decision ...

AA doesn't respond to my emails, so I guess I will need to find a tuner in France capable of tuning a supercharged M3 with stock DME, which is rare (and will probably cost me much ...)
 
#24 ·
Gentlemen, I having the same problem with my VF kit, it is idling at AFR 17... I had a member explain to me that is the TPS, and to best deal with them is to change both of them at the same time. I will do this some time next week. I will keep you all updated.
 
#28 · (Edited)
When I got my 7th gen manifold I noticed it was such a tight fit to get it down. Make sure none of the hoses are kinked at all. Not running an oil catch can can deteriorate these hoses and can collapse easily. Why you would see a change in its behaviour is the fluctuation of size of the hose.

Re check the hardware and possibly change those TPS. The BOV should be flowing at idle, do not close them.

The stage 1-1.5-2 bump up kits are all the same. The difference is with 1.5 you have the intercooler already, possibly injectors opposed to going from 1-2 directly.
 
#31 ·
What about the fuel system? Are you going to run the secondary system with the smaller injectors? What you are going to do is create more of a headache.

What I would suggest doing is going through the whole install step by step again to make sure it is all done right.

Lilflip, definitely agree - it does not sound like a tuning issue as I myself sold and installed tons of these kits myself (and own one).
 
#32 ·
Where did you send an email to? I have not seen anything come through about this issue.. Please send an email to Zak@activeautowerke.com he will be more than willing to help rectify this situation.
 
#33 ·
It's ALIVE! It works perfectly and it was exactly the first issue that A55A55IN pointed out - adaptations. I think it's a battle of ignorance. I was ignorant of exactly which adaptations to clear, the European auto shop that I had clear them with the Motec and Autologic systems either didn't know, or the machines were incapable of clearing these adaptations. Then, the BMW dealership must not have known which adaptations to clear.

Basically, I spent $200 at various shops and the dealership trying to get these things cleared. Active sent me one of their actual laptops - which turns out to be a standard PC with a USB-CAN adapter running an older version of the BMW software on it. Plugged it in, hit "Reset Adaptations" and we were in business.

Hard to believe they can make this kind of difference. At idle, running the Stage 1.5 tune I was seeing (+)30-40% fuel trims. After the reset, (-)25-30%. Seeing this, I flashed it back to the stock Stage 2 tune and am now seeing (-)4-10% even under load. No rough idle, and it comes back to idle no problems (doesn't die).

Thanks to Zak over at Active for letting me keep him on the phone for an hour on Friday evening. Also - I've never had Zak not respond to an email or a phone call. He's on top of it. Going to arrange some dyno time this week and get it final tuned. I'll keep you guys updated.
 
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