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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 02-12-2014, 05:26 AM   #1
PerfectStorm01
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 120
My Ride: 320Ci
Running Rich

Hi guys

Over Christmas break I replaced my vanos seals with the besian kit because it was never done and also because I read that it affects the timing of the car (I heard timing knock when slightly accelerating up an incline), fuel economy and the general health of the car. Based on what I was experiencing and all the PM completed, I figured I would feel an immediate improvement-I did not. Prior to replacing the vanos seals I was running rich on both banks by -4% LTFT. I have attached a chart from 2 weeks ago showing LTFT at -9%, and MAF, RPM and coolant temp readings. My issue is that I am still running rich, but I think itís because I am running cool. I have a 35 minute commute to work on a hwy that has lights and where I can get up to 60mph so my car should get to operating temp, but the temp only reaches just around 88C and as high as 93C. On a regular hwy I was tracking my temp and it hovered around 86-87C. I was getting these temps when it was 110F outside! If I replace this thermostat it will be my third (I've had walher and behr stats). My temp gauge, which is obviously buffered, stays dead centre. Would temps running at 8 degrees below normal operating temp effect LTFT trims that much?

My second issue is that my idle dips slightly coming to a stop especially when it is cool out. So it is more prevalent during the winter or cool nights/mornings compared to the summer. You should be able to see a slight dip in the rpms and a quick recovery by the car in the chart. The car has never stalled, but it will give me a quick shutter as the rpms reach 520 vs. normal idle in drive of 620. Could this be related to the car temp? Running rich?

It's been a bit frustrating for me based on all the work I have done so any advice is greatly appreciated. I don't have any eml or ses lights and there are no fault codes.

PM so far:

New cooling system (everything), new belts, alternator, tensioners and pulleys, PS pump/reservoir and related hoses, DISA rebuild, cleaned TB and ICV (multiple times), replaced TB gasket and ICV grommet, replaced CCV and related hoses, vanos and VCG, intake and exhaust Camshaft position sensors, fuel pump and filter, battery, OFHG, oil level sensor, oil/filer is changed every 7500 miles with M1, sparkplugs (2 years ago), and both pre cat 02 sensors. I only use genuine or OEM sensors or parts.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 320ci drive to work.pdf (1.48 MB, 185 views)
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:06 AM   #2
jfoj
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Location: Fairfax, VA USA
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My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Engine RARELY run rich, when they do, it is usually due to incorrectly connected or counterfeit sensors or a fuel pressure that is too high.

Engine temperature does factor into fuel mixture, but where you are located and with your current outside temps, I would not think this is a major factor.

Since you fuel trims are showing rich conditions on both banks, I do not think this is a fuel injector issue, not likely that multiple injectors would go bad at the same time.

Understanding the vehicle history is important.

First question I have is where is the fuel pressure regulator located and have you checked and verified the fuel pressure?

Do you know if your car has the 3-2 valve?

What is the history on the MAF? Ever been replaced? Do you have another MAF on hand to test with?

Do not overlook the obvious on this type of issue.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:01 AM   #3
yoyomin
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Maybe you have a small vacuum leak. Check your intake boots for crack.

EDIT: nevermind, just saw the fuel trim is negative. Check fuel pressure like suggested
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Last edited by yoyomin; 02-12-2014 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:24 AM   #4
shanneba
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Have you installed any performance software?
I noticed my LTFT went rich right after I had the Dinan Stage 2 software installed.
I doubt running 8 degrees cooler would effect the LTFT values that much, I just had a failed thermostat and didn't see a big jump in LTFT values.

I would start by running some fuel injector cleaner with the your next fill up, either Chevron Techron (20oz) or Red Line SI1.
That should make sure your injectors are a little cleaner.
Next I woulod check your fuel pressure. I am not familiar with the 320 model engine fuel system but you can check the fuel pressure and either replace the filter (if it has the fuel pressure regulator included on the 320) or the regulator (US 323/328 models had a separate fuel pressure regulator)

Have you replaced the air filter?

You normally will not see a code until you are over +- 8-10% in closed loop mode.
There is that much adjustment to allow for differences in engines, injectors etc.
The ECU reads the O2 sensors and adjusts the injection time to get to 14.7 air fuel ratio, the negative LTFT tells you the ECU is adding fuel to get to the correct air fuel ratio.
You are still really running at 14.7 to 1 according to the O2 sensor output signal.
Your ECU is actually decreasing the injection time (using less fuel) because it thinks you are getting too much fuel based on the O2 sensor voltages.
What O2 sensor brand did you install?

Here is some info from the net about BMW fuel trims:
http://www.bmwicom.net/wp-content/up..._fuel_trim.pdf


LTFT Adaptation Value positive (+), LTFT >1.(ECU thinks mixture is lean)
Lack of fuel or too much air (small air volume).
LTFT Adaptation Value negative (-), 0 Too much fuel, Lack of air.
This could be due to leaking injector or a stuck open pintle supplying too much fuel.
© Baum Tools Unlimited Inc. 1999-2002 Author: Dana Baum
STFT Adaptation Value positive (+) (ECU thinks mixture is lean)
Consistent high positive value can mean bad MAF (reporting measured volume too low), low
exhaust back pressure, blown TWCC, misfires, large intake or exhaust leak (Large air volume).
STFT Adaptation Value negative (-) (ECU thinks mixture is rich)
Consistent high negative value can mean high exhaust back pressure, clogged TWCC, injectors
stuck open.
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Last edited by shanneba; 02-12-2014 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:33 AM   #5
PerfectStorm01
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Engine RARELY run rich, when they do, it is usually due to incorrectly connected or counterfeit sensors or a fuel pressure that is too high.

Engine temperature does factor into fuel mixture, but where you are located and with your current outside temps, I would not think this is a major factor.

Since you fuel trims are showing rich conditions on both banks, I do not think this is a fuel injector issue, not likely that multiple injectors would go bad at the same time.

Understanding the vehicle history is important.

First question I have is where is the fuel pressure regulator located and have you checked and verified the fuel pressure?

Do you know if your car has the 3-2 valve?

What is the history on the MAF? Ever been replaced? Do you have another MAF on hand to test with?

Do not overlook the obvious on this type of issue.
Thanks for the response. The FPR is located on the fuel filter. I tested the pressure months ago. Here is my post regarding fuel pressure. Perhaps I will test again.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=698615

Sorry but I am not sure what a 3-2 valve is. I tried googling it. MAF is original, but according to my chart I thought it looked normal.

Could it be the connections? Should I try crimping the electrical connections?
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:45 AM   #6
PerfectStorm01
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanneba View Post
Have you installed any performance software?
I noticed my LTFT went rich right after I had the Dinan Stage 2 software installed.
I doubt running 8 degrees cooler would effect the LTFT values that much, I just had a failed thermostat and didn't see a big jump in LTFT values.

I would start by running some fuel injector cleaner with the your next fill up, either Chevron Techron (20oz) or Red Line SI1.
That should make sure your injectors are a little cleaner.
Next I woulod check your fuel pressure. I am not familiar with the 320 model engine fuel system but you can check the fuel pressure and either replace the filter (if it has the fuel pressure regulator included on the 320) or the regulator (US 323/328 models had a separate fuel pressure regulator)

Have you replaced the air filter?

You normally will not see a code until you are over +- 8-10% in closed loop mode.
There is that much adjustment to allow for differences in engines, injectors etc.
The ECU reads the O2 sensors and adjusts the injection time to get to 14.7 air fuel ratio, the negative LTFT tells you the ECU is adding fuel to get to the correct air fuel ratio.
You are still really running at 14.7 to 1 according to the O2 sensor output signal.
Your ECU is actually decreasing the injection time (using less fuel) because it thinks you are getting too much fuel based on the O2 sensor voltages.
What O2 sensor brand did you install?

Here is some info from the net about BMW fuel trims:
http://www.bmwicom.net/wp-content/up..._fuel_trim.pdf


LTFT Adaptation Value positive (+), LTFT >1.(ECU thinks mixture is lean)
Lack of fuel or too much air (small air volume).
LTFT Adaptation Value negative (-), 0 Too much fuel, Lack of air.
This could be due to leaking injector or a stuck open pintle supplying too much fuel.
© Baum Tools Unlimited Inc. 1999-2002 Author: Dana Baum
STFT Adaptation Value positive (+) (ECU thinks mixture is lean)
Consistent high positive value can mean bad MAF (reporting measured volume too low), low
exhaust back pressure, blown TWCC, misfires, large intake or exhaust leak (Large air volume).
STFT Adaptation Value negative (-) (ECU thinks mixture is rich)
Consistent high negative value can mean high exhaust back pressure, clogged TWCC, injectors
stuck open.

My car is stock. I replaced the air filter with a Hengst when I replaced my vanos, but I was running rich before that. I used Bosch O2 sensors when I replaced them. I was thinking about getting my injectors professionally cleaned but opted for getting opinions first. I run fuel injector cleaner once every 10k miles Thanks for the info too.
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Last edited by PerfectStorm01; 02-13-2014 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:50 AM   #7
Phrygian
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The 323i and 328i both have separate pressure regulators in different places. On the 323i it is on the 3/2 way valve. The later cars have the regulator integrated in the fuel filter.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:54 AM   #8
PerfectStorm01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrygian View Post
The 323i and 328i both have separate pressure regulators in different places. On the 323i it is on the 3/2 way valve. The later cars have the regulator integrated in the fuel filter.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Where is the 3/2 way valve located?
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:24 PM   #9
Phrygian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfectStorm01 View Post
Where is the 3/2 way valve located?
I probably shouldn't have said anything. I think jfoj was asking because some E46s with M52TU engines had their pressure regulator located on the 3/2 valve. If your car has an M54 engine then the pressure regulator is integrated into the fuel filter. You've already said that yours is on the filter, and that you have tested your fuel pressure. If your fuel pressure looks normal, all of this is irrelevant anyway.

I also have a negative fuel trim issue with my E46, although it's not as severe. Mine is -2.3 at the most on Bank 2 and -1.8 on Bank 1. I'm also getting catalyst inefficiency codes for bank 2 though.

Last edited by Phrygian; 02-13-2014 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 02-14-2014, 04:37 PM   #10
PerfectStorm01
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I heard that if you have a slight rich condition you may see slight butt Dino gains. Beyond that you see diminishing returns. Not sure if it's true or not just read it somewhere.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:20 AM   #11
inebriation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrygian View Post

I also have a negative fuel trim issue with my E46, although it's not as severe. Mine is -2.3 at the most on Bank 2 and -1.8 on Bank 1. I'm also getting catalyst inefficiency codes for bank 2 though.
I have the same exact condition.....did you ever find a solution? I have read a lot on this but am still wary as to where to spend my money to fix. Thanks!

2002 330ci M54 182,000 miles
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