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Old 02-02-2017, 11:26 PM   #1
tzp111
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No Crank No Start

Hello members, I'm a newb and trying to diagnose a NO CRANK NO START issue with my gf's 05 325i. I changed out the CCV due to a leak and cracked hoses and now all I hear is a click when trying to start.

I've double checked all connections (actually took everything apart except for ccv and reattached to make sure), hear fuel pump priming, interior/exterior lights and dash display all work. Battery read 11.4 on OBC after some attempted "cranking" so I charged it full and still the same result.

I've checked the fuses in glove box and nothing blown. I read the sticky for No Start potential problems and noticed that fuse #14 - starter interlock - is missing but the car was running prior to the CCV job without this fuse.

Due to the position of the car in parking space adjacent to a busy street I haven't been able to try "bump starting" yet. I did manually crank the engine at the suggestion of one thread, then pushed the car back and forth a few feet in case the starter was stuck, although I'm not sure if that was enough manual cranking or pushing. Starter was working fine with no failure sign, I don't think it is the problem or it would be quite a coincidence that it happened right after the CCV was changed.

I've read the "bore wash" thread and think this might be the problem because I did start the car briefly to move it for working space prior to the job. However, the car is in South Florida and temp was 70ish/warm when I started. I'm willing to try anything but would pouring oil down the cylinder and trying to "burn out" excess fuel really work if there's no crank? Wouldn't it need to at least have a crank to have a chance at starting using this method?

Unfortunately some of the threads are old and I'm in a big time crunch with very few tools. I'm supposed to move my gf from FL to TX tomorrow but now it looks slim. I'm scrambling for options that don't involve towing to an indy that I don't know (I'm from CA not local) or worse... the stealership.

Anyone close to Surfside, FL 33154 with tools and/or knowledge willing to help me resolve this? I'm willing to pay for your time. If no takers, then I'll gladly read every word your collective minds can conjure if someone has had experience resolving this issue before. Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2017, 05:24 AM   #2
jfoj
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This thread makes no sense.

The OBC indicates 11.4 Volts so you charged the battery and the OBC still indicates 11.4 Volts?? Did I read your statement correctly or is there more to this?

Anything under 12.0 Volts is basically a fully depleted battery. The battery has energy, but by the textbooks, it has 0% charge!

You are talking about about a no crank situation, but also worried about the engine being flooded? If the engine does not crank, do not even worry about if the engine is flooded or not.

What is the real situation here, there is more to this story.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 02-03-2017, 09:56 AM   #3
tzp111
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Sorry, that statement was unclear. The OBC read 11.4 so I took it to autozone and had them charge it full, which it did. When I reconnected the battery nothing changed, as in the same no crank no start result. The reason I didn't think it's the battery is because I was trying to crank it many times before actually using the OBC to read the voltage. I thought maybe I just depleted it in the process. Also, the battery is less than one year old and hasn't been abused and/or needed a jump from drainage.

I'm not too knowledgeable about what parts might be contributing to this no crank no start situation, just that it happened right after the ccv change. Upon reading internet threads for similar situations I narrowed it down to the flooded engine because:

1. I did start and move the car ever so briefly prior to doing the CCV change to gain more access to the engine bay.
2. Everything worked prior to the CCV change. Battery, starter, fuel pump, ignition switch all seemed to be working and showed symptoms of failure.
3. If something other than engine flooding happened then it would be a perfect coincidence given that the car was running prior to me disconnected the battery and doing the CCV.

My question is, if the engine is indeed flooded like I think... would it or would it not have a crank?

Would disconnecting the battery for 24+ hours cause any security system lock up that would cause my key not to work? I have access to 2 keys and neither solved the issue.

I'm in town to help my gf move, it's her car, and I don't have access to many tools so I'm trying to do whatever is easiest first. I will attempt to move the car around the small parking lot during the day when it's semi-empty in hopes that the starter might be on a dead spot.

Thanks for your input, I definitely need all the help I can get being a novice routine maintenance person and no expert. Forgive me if my thought processes are ass-backwards because it makes sense to a newb (me), however, I welcome all criticism/advice if it means getting this resolved.
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Old 02-03-2017, 10:18 AM   #4
BMWCaptain
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You need to diagnose your NO crank situation.

Start at your battery:

Voltage at battery, state value seen
Tighten connections on your battery
Measure voltage at +B terminal at right rear of engine compartment, state value
Measure voltage at rear of your alternator, this cable comes from the starter, state value
Measure voltage at ignition switch input pin and then output pin to EWS
Measure voltage on EWS output pin
Measure voltage at starter pin

If you work down the list, it will help you to narrow down what the problem is.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:06 AM   #5
tzp111
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I just cleaned and tightened the battery connections. OBC read battery at 12.0. It was full (12.9 yesterday after charge) but I also tried cranking it last night quite a few times after reconnecting. I'm running out to get a multi-meter and probably charge the battery again before measuring. Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:25 AM   #6
jfoj
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Can you clearly explain what is going on.

Is this a "No Crank" condition OR a "Crank, No Start" condition?

When you turn the key do you hear any noise other than maybe a click?

Or does the engine sound like every other time you start the engine?

If the engine is flooded, which would only be relevant IF this is a "Crank, No Start" condition, then read and follow this info below, but DO NOT pull spark plugs at this point, if the battery is strong, you will get the engine started without taking anything apart:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1063462

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1069117

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1112112

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1117576

http://blog.bavauto.com/17656/it-hap...king-no-start/

If the engine cranks but does not start and you cannot get the engine running with the above info, check the fuses in the DME box above the glove box.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:49 AM   #7
tzp111
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This is a NO CRANK, NO START condition. When I turn the key there's one click then nothing. I hear the fuel pump priming but that's it. All other electrical seems to work, dash, ddoors, lights etc. with no flicker/dimming so I figured it might not be the battery... I could be wrong.

I haven't pulled sparks yet because I was trying to confirm that flooded engine condition would still have and/or need crank to proceed with the "burning out" method, which was confirmed in the replies. I only thought it was flooded engine because I moved it briefly and everything seemed to work prior to this ccv job. If something else fails then it would be, like I said, pure coincidence and bad timing. I'm heading out to grab a multi-meter. I will check the fuses in the DME box as suggested, although it will be my first time trying to access it. I already checked all the suggested fuses in the main panel in glove compartment and nothing is defective. However, I will check EVERY single fuse when I return. Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2017, 11:55 AM   #8
jfoj
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No crank situation, forget about a flooded engine at this point.

Try another key, if an automatic shift it Neutral (with your foot on the brake), if a manual transmission pump the clutch pedal.

Did you disconnect any wiring under the hood when you did the prior work?

Check fuses.

But last, I hate to say this, 2004-2005 starters go without warning, they start one day, then the next start, nothing.

You may need to verify power to the starter and starter solenoid.

You are dealing with an electrical issue at this point, you need at a minimum a test light and possibly a multimeter.

Good luck.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 02-03-2017, 12:35 PM   #9
case600lp
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JFOJ - if the starter did fail, would it likely pull the battery voltage down while trying the key to engage it? In other words, would watching the voltage be a good test of the starter failure or not?

I've seen that on other vehicles a lot. I just replaced my '04 330i starter a few weeks ago - but mine was just dragging and never totally quit, so I'm not sure how the BMW starter would react when it stops turning.


Howard
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:52 PM   #10
tzp111
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I tried the key (the car is auto) suggestions from other threads with both available keys but no luck. I did remove some connectors during the CCV job:

ICV
TB
Purge
DISA
MAF
Ground terminal in engine bay as well as disconnecting the battery in trunk

I think that's all... I only disconnected what I needed in order to get access to the CCV and clean ICV + TB. I've torn it down, except for taking the CCV out, and put it back together 3 times already since the no crank began in hopes that I'd catch something I missed while re-attaching but I'm quite sure I have it right. However, in case I did stupidly mis-connect something and/or missed something, would any of the above connectors cause a no crank situation? I don't mind tearing it down again to quadruple check, which I might do again anyway.

I'm hoping it's not the starter because I don't have the tools or time to DIY it. I read that they're fickle and just fail with no warning but it just seemed like it's something I've done related to the CCV job because everything was working. Who knows... I've got the multi-meter and going out to check some suggested voltage points and DME fuse now.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:03 PM   #11
jmo69
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Mine failed after changing fuel tank sending unit on the opposite side of the tank from the fuel pump, no warning. I did try it just before I took it out and it did engage but after all I went through to get at it, I replaced it anyway. xi automatics can be a pita to change w/out removing the intake manifold.
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:38 PM   #12
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If you are cranking, but not starting, then check your e-Box fuses. If you were working on the car with the key on antime and disconnected connectors, then a fuse may have blown. If fuse is blown, fuel pump and some sensors will not work.

Check it and eliminate it as a cause.
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Old 02-10-2017, 04:36 PM   #13
tzp111
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Update:

I was down to the 11th hour, my gf was literally on the phone setting up a tow and appointment with the mechanic, when I thought "$%$# it!" I'm going to take everything I can apart, down to "whacking" the starter if I have to, since it was Friday and no one would be working on it until Monday. I bought a multi-meter but the batteries included had leaked and it wasn't working properly. I was quite sure the car battery was good since I charged/tested it twice at autozone but testing the EWS, Ignition Switch and Alternator was off the table You gentlemen confirmed that it was most likely not flooded engine and I should look for electrical and/or the starter so I disassembled everything I touched during the CCV job, for the fifth time, and some other parts to barely feel the starter.

The sun was setting and a sparkle caught my eye underneath the intake manifold. At first I thought it was just glimmer from oil residue that leaked from the old CCV but upon further inspection it was a frayed/exposed wire, which I don't know where it came or what it connected to; a small section was just dangling down and barely visible unless I really stuck my head down there. I happened to have a computer repair kit so took some similar gauged wiring and wrapped/reinforced the frayed bits, soldered, stripped some cables used the plastic to repair the outside and basically Frankensteined that connector wire. It took awhile because of the location, it looked a bit thick and ugly but I was confident it would hold current IF that was the problem.

It was now dark and I was working outside with only a phone flashlight in my mouth so after tapping the starter a few times, I went in from the top/back and could barely reach/feel it so "whacking" wasn't even an option, it was time to start reassembling and living with the result. I didn't have a starter but even if I did, there's no way I could've replaced it. I cleaned all the connectors and plugged tightly, wiped all battery terminals and tightened, checked every single fuse in car and engine bay, checked the EWS and Ignition switch for any physical damage since I couldn't test voltage and last but not least, I pushed the car around the small parking lot, luckily most people were hanging out on Friday evening so it made the job easier. Hell, I even gave it new wiper blades, air filters and a few new exterior/interior bulbs hoping for some car karma.

My gf was not happy with my decision to work on her car right before a move. She's never been one to budget for maintenance but expects the thing to run because it's a BMW and supposed to be a good car. In fact, she was never really fond of the car and recently, I'm not around, so she takes it to random mechanics and funds their retirement plans. Given her disdain for the car, and me atm, I just remembered telling the car, before cranking it, that it would not be fixed or rest in peace if it didn't start because I would part it out piece by piece never to be whole again. Well... that mf*%* roared to start like it's life depended on it.

I packed the car that night and we left in the morning. I have no idea if the solution was my Frankenstein job, poking the starter, cleaning/tightening the connectors, fuses, battery etc. or some combination of my efforts. All I know is it started and drove strong from Florida to Texas. I've been too busy with moving to recheck everything but I will revisit that damaged/fixed wire.

For anyone having similar problems current and/or future, ask questions and be thorough even if you think you've doubled/tripled checked (it took me five tries to spot/correct my own stupidity?) The folks on these boards are very knowledgeable, helpful and I'm one thankful (new) member. Thanks to everyone for your responses/advice, I will try to be more active on the boards and help others with "what not to do" since I'm not as knowledgeable as the likes of jfoj and bmwcaptain.

I would've updated sooner but I've been on the road and broke my phone screen while fixing the car. Thanks again fanatics.
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after ccv replacement, no crank, no start

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