Let's play a game: identify all the PS fittings to make custom hoses! - E46Fanatics E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-20-2017, 10:54 AM   #1
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Let's play a game: identify all the PS fittings to make custom hoses!

Lets face it. The PS hose system tends to be a bit on the leaky side. Seriously, it's like having a british car from the 70s again.

This is XI specific, as the rack/bits are different from RWD e46s.

The game: I'm going to put up a picture of each hose in the system. We'll then work to identify the connectors. With that info, we can put together a set of parts to build custom hoses using our good friend the AN hose system. I'm hoping the cost will be comparable given the high cost of many of these hoses.
I ended up using photos from ecs tuning, as the watermark isn't ridiculous.
I will update the first post as we figure things out.

Update:
I've settled on a parts set for my install.
e36M3 PS pump - this is the only pump that has threaded in and out.
It works with the S54/etc filter housing. Dunno if you can rebracket to fit the M54 housing.
Chase Bays reservoir - it's the only double baffled tank I could find.
Fragola hoses and ends.
Braided nylon 10AN with 10An fittings.
Fragola pre-built PTFE hoses for the high pressure, rack to cooler and cooler to res feeds.
Modified the cooler to use 6AN ends. (in process.)



Parts lists and fittings identified:
Reservoir - inlet and outlet sizes?

1 intake hose reservoir to pump 32416750155
3 HP hose from pump to steering rack 32416751242
6 Banjo Bolt with check valve M14x1,5x27,4 32416781261
7 hose return from rack to cooling coil 32416796391
9 Banjo Bolt M16x28 32416852470
10 Cooling Coil 17111436262
11 hose cooling coil to res 32416796680




Full system diagram (realoem late model)


1 intake hose reservoir to pump 32416750155
This hose uses a clamp up top and bottom.


3 HP hose from pump to steering rack 32416751242
6 Banjo Bolt with check valve M14x1,5x27,4 32416781261
Oring fitting with xx angle bend to the PS pump.
180 degree bend in the middle
14mm banjo bolt filling with custom bend to the rack inlet.

AN Build:
Adapter to pump: M16-1.50 oring. We can get an adapter to take this to -06AN.
Russell 648060 ($10)
Bend to redirect: Bend could be 150 or 180 - will need to check clearance.
Vibrant Performance 150 or 180 -06 AN hose end fitting ($19) or Jegs 110041 - cheaper
Hose: -6AN Hose (need length)
Male hose end: -06 AN hose end male (vibrant performance 24006)
180 Bend: Vibrant Performance 180 -06 AN hose end fitting ($19) or Jegs 110041 - cheaper
Hose: -06 AN hose (need length)
XX degree bend?
Banjo Fitting



7 hose return from rack to cooling coil 32416796391
9 Banjo Bolt M16x28 32416852470
16mm banjo bolt fitting at the rack with 90ish degree bend
Quick disconnect to the "cooling coil"


10 Cooling Coil 17111436262
This is just a hard pipe with quick disconnects at both ends.


11 hose cooling coil to res 32416796680
Quick disconnect at one end, clamp to res at the other end.
Is there a check valve inside the hose at the clamp?


Thoughts:
There are a couple of challenges here.
The hard line bends should be ok, but fitting lengths into the space may be hard to do.
The quick disconnects may need to be eliminated. Using a modified cooling coil or just a different one may be the best option here.
These look like fuel line disconnects, so maybe we can find AN compatible versions and retain the stock coil.

It's pretty clear that the main leaks come from the reservoir and hoses to the reservoir. One could simply update those to eliminate the main issues.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build

Last edited by WilloCO; 05-03-2017 at 01:53 PM.
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 03-20-2017, 11:15 AM   #2
matt270avian
Banned User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Keymar
Posts: 187
My Ride: 2002 325XI
I do believe the simplest solution would be to eliminate/create your own reservoir. In my experience the only parts that don't leak are the quick disconnects. Between the breather hole in the stock res and the hose clamp fittings it's pretty leaky right at that spot. If you can manage to pull off the pump and slap an AN fitting in place of the barb you should be set. Fresh banjo fittings and copper washers everywhere else should seal everything up for years to come after that. My logic here is that this solution only replaces 2 lines and a reservoir, should be significantly cheaper than most other solutions. I'm assuming you have some skills so welding up a cylinder with a cap and some holes should be no big deal at all.
matt270avian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 11:22 AM   #3
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
I don't really disagree, but I figure it's worth evaluating the whole thing as long as I'm at it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:11 PM   #4
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Bimmerworld carries a kit to convert the e36 PS res and res feed lines to AN fittings. I find this rather interesting.
http://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensio...FRK4wAodHOUB3w

I did see someone mentioning the idea of putting an e36 cooling coil onto an e46 somewhere. This idea is sort of becoming more interesting to me now. (I also happen to have a e36 rack in my parts pile...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 10:08 PM   #5
Gbro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 68
My Ride: 2004 E46 325xi
I am intrigued by this thread, I am all for fixing the leaky system...

I had been thinking about one of these:
https://www.mishimoto.com/aluminum-p...voir-tank.html

Since both hoses are just clamped to the res, then just making a custom bracket to the O.E. mounting point on the oil filter housing.

Ideas?
Gbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 07:46 PM   #6
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Little research today. It appears that the outlet fitting on the pump is M16-1.50 according to the Cardone replacement pump page at O'Reilly
Seems like a Russell 648060 which is a -06 AN to 16mmx1.5 oring adapter will do the trick.
The inlet pipe will remain - it's a non-threaded oring connector.
Added notes on fittings down to the rack. I see two options for the rack end - a hard line adapter to the existing banjo end or a banjo with custom bits.

Also worth looking at - I have an e36 rack in my parts bin. We may be able to add cooling using the e36 coil/banjo.
Check out the e36 kit at bimmerwold to get an idea of that:
http://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensio...ing-Kit_2.html
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build

Last edited by WilloCO; 03-21-2017 at 08:49 PM.
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 10:52 PM   #7
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
I've been looking at cooling and tank options. Why - the overflow from the stock tank happens when the fluid overheats. Hard driving/tracking will make this happen.
Cooling:
1) Use the e92 cooler. It looks like is has the same QD connectors with one angled pipe. Advantage - stock hoses, added cooling fins. Mounting may be a little odd.
2) Aftermarket cooler with built in AN fittings. I'm liking the look of the AFCO Racing Power Steering Fluid Coolers 37600. It's in and out on the ends, but

Tanks:
There's an inexpensive tank at Speedway, but it's got some poor reviews.
I like the look and price of the Howe Power Steering Fluid Tanks PS500. It looks like a reasonable tank for $70.

The bimmerworld e36 kit uses a rectangle/tapered tank which I also like.
Keyser and Moroso both make quality tanks along those lines for around $75.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 10:56 PM   #8
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Sigh, just me again. I'm at the point of knowing that this is doable. However, the crux is the intake hose to the pump. The barb connector has an oring and is likely loctite'd in. To do this right I'd need to do one of)
a) thread the intake port for an AN adapter.
b) cut down the oring tube, thread it and re-install.
c) change the PS pump out for one with threaded i/o
d) not my favorite - accept it and just clamp the hose onto the barb.

Also it seems that the 330xi uses the LUK-30 PS pump which runs 1800psi. (holy cr8p) it'll take some good hose for that. That said, I think I can build an AN HP hose for under $100. But I'd still have to build it. For $120 I can just buy a new hose. Sigh.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 08:31 AM   #9
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Couple more items that I'm looking into...
PS Cooler options - if I go AN on everything, then I'd need a different cooler. However, I've noticed that the e90/e93 PS cooler appears to use the same quick disconnect. It's a slightly different shape, but I'm going to play with one a bit. I ordered a used one for $25 to see if it could work.

Second, I pulled out my e36 steering rack. It's got a cooling coil right on front of the rack. It(the coil) could be made to work, but the banjo fitting would need to be bent a bit to line up with the hole on the rack itself.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 07:57 PM   #10
justinXI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central PA
Posts: 3
My Ride: 2001 e46 330xi
Im in a similar situation, randomly found my hose #11 was leaking terribly, i temporarily fixed it with a random piece of hose I had and just hose clamped where the quick connect used to be. I can confirm that there is something inside the hose where that band clamp is, looked like some type of reducer to me although it may have been a check valve.

My idea for a permanent solution was going to be to replace the cooler with 1/2" stainless tubing and then use swagelok fittings instead of the quick connect. That would solve your cooler-to-AN problem, here's a link to a fitting similar to the one you would need for that:
https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/...t=SS-810-6-8AN

Here's a random swagelok 90 I had laying in the garage, it's for 1/4" tubing I just stuck some clear hose in there so you can see how they work if you're not familiar:




Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
justinXI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 08:46 AM   #11
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Found a couple of useful bits. The LUK LF30 pump that's on my 330xi runs at nearly 1800psi. (rounded up) It'll be important to use high pressure rated hose. In AN hose land, earl's makes power steering specific hose, rated for 2250psi.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2017, 07:42 PM   #12
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
I had an idea today. First was looking at my garagistic oil cooler adapter. Is uses AN fitting with o-rings on the back. I emailed them with some ideas. After that I had some handy amazon ads for weld on AN fittings. I'm thinking that I can pull my PS pump, pull the barb fitting, then grind/clean the surface and epoxy on a weld on AN fitting. Aluminum to aluminum with a proper epoxy should be very solid.
After that, it's just a matter of Banjo fittings and an adapter fitting on the PS pump.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 10:40 AM   #13
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
I've been researching some more. I *think* that I can put a compression fitting on the inlet at the pump. I was seriously considering swapping pumps to get something with threaded I/O.
I'll pull the PS crud apart later and break out the calipers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 11:08 AM   #14
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
ok, I've got a line on the HP setup. I'm going to order parts and will update once I have something
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2017, 10:36 AM   #15
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
I got a new idea today. Now looking at swapping the PS pump to get threaded in/out fittings.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2017, 08:14 PM   #16
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
Allrighty. Here's my solution.

1) Reservoir with AN fittings. I've ordered a "Chase Bays" reservoir, hopefully that shows up ok. If not, I'll go generic. This gives me AN6 input and AN10 output.
2) I'm using a power steering pump from a s52. The e36m3 has threaded inlet and outlet connections. - Also m14 and m16.
3) M16 and M14 adapters. Chase sells some, but I found the fragola part numbers, and will order those.
4) Premade teflon stainless steel hoses for the HP side. Also made by Fragola, these are anywhere from $35-$45 depending on length.
5) Modified steering cooler. I'm going to try out brazing aluminum AN6 ends to the aluminum PS I picked up.
6) Measure for hoses. I may reduce the hose install length. I'm not certain of this just yet - it's likely that the high pressure line is longer to smooth out the flow/reduce noise. I can always add more hose, so I'm going to test out running shorter lenghts to start. It also gets costs down.
7) Low pressure hoses will likely be diy, but I haven't decided yet. It's entirely dependent on angles and lengths needed when I'm done.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 10:22 AM   #17
mtnbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 164
My Ride: 325xi
Lots of great info here but really seems like a solution looking for a problem. New reservoir and two hoses ($70) take care of the leak the majority of the time and your good for another 100K.
mtnbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 10:32 AM   #18
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
I'm not a fan of the stock hoses. They have been known to burst on track days. (This is well documented in the m3forums) Every (older) BMW I've had was *always* a mess around the PS.

Ignoring my PS pump swap, my cost is approximately equal to the factory renew. Once I'm done, replacing hoses will actually be much much cheaper as much of the cost is in the fittings. With luck, it'll last the life of the car.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2017, 01:50 PM   #19
WilloCO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 437
My Ride: '05 330xi 6 speed
HEY MODS,
This IS XI specific work. Certainly adaptable but it rocks some different parts and uses different part numbers.

Anyhow,
I've settled on a parts set for my install.
e36M3 PS pump - this is the only pump that has threaded in and out.
It works with the S54/etc filter housing. Dunno if you can rebracket.
Chase Bays reservoir - it's the only double baffled tank I could find.
Fragola hoses and ends.
Braided nylon 10AN with 10An fittings.
Fragola pre-built PTFE hoses for the high pressure, rack to cooler and cooler to res feeds.
Modified the cooler to use 6AN ends. (in process.)

Total cost exceeds a stock replacement, but the build should last the life of the car. Each replacement part is actually quite inexpensive - the PTFE hoses are only $40 each premade and tested.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
I bedded my pads when I switched from ceramic to my PDF-Z pads. They actually caught fire during bed in.
05 330xi 6 speed
RIP: 86 e30 w/E36 M3 suspension build
WilloCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.