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Old 11-03-2013, 02:45 PM   #1
Untoten
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oceanside, CA
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My Ride: 2003 325i
Angry Stubborn Fault Code P111F

Hey everyone, got a pretty serious issue here.

Earlier I had to replace the temperature sensor for my car because my OBD reader was giving me the fault code P0070.

Well I replaced it and reset the code and all was well until the light came back on after a few miles.

I scanned it again and P0070 was gone but I found a new code (P111F) only this code was different; there was no definition found for it.

I've tried searching all over this forum and google for this issue, even called autozone and they had no clue either. I'm really at a loss here, I found some posts that said it could be a dirty MAF sensor so I cleaned it but there was no change.

Everytime I reset it just pops right back up.

Please help me destroy this annoyance so I can smog my baby.

I've attached a diagnosis from the software I'm using for anyone who can actually understand what it means because I certainly don't.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #2
jfoj
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What OBD program are you using? Have you updated the software lately?

Forget the OBD software you are using, I think it is full of bugs.

I do not see P0070 for a 325 in the Bentley manual and there are no mixed OBDII codes with both decimal and hex values. There is no such OBDII code as P111F.

Not sure how long you were driving your car before the Freeze Frame shot you posted was displayed, but your engine coolant temperature is only 154F!

You should be to 95-96C/203-205F in the first 5-7 minutes of driving, note this is driving, not idling in the driveway.

100% you actually need a thermostat, not the temp sensor. You want a Wahler thermostat, check your local parts store, they usually have re-boxed Wahler units, NAPA usually has them for about $45.

As for codes, I understand that Pep Boys in CA will read codes for you. Suggest you go and have your codes read, assume you will have a P0128 code.

For OBDII info, read this - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=967204

With a smart phone, for $20-$30 an App and an adapter you can have a much better tool that what you have now.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:43 PM   #3
Untoten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
What OBD program are you using? Have you updated the software lately?

Forget the OBD software you are using, I think it is full of bugs.

I do not see P0070 for a 325 in the Bentley manual and there are no mixed OBDII codes with both decimal and hex values. There is no such OBDII code as P111F.

Not sure how long you were driving your car before the Freeze Frame shot you posted was displayed, but your engine coolant temperature is only 154F!

You should be to 95-96C/203-205F in the first 5-7 minutes of driving, note this is driving, not idling in the driveway.

100% you actually need a thermostat, not the temp sensor. You want a Wahler thermostat, check your local parts store, they usually have re-boxed Wahler units, NAPA usually has them for about $45.

As for codes, I understand that Pep Boys in CA will read codes for you. Suggest you go and have your codes read, assume you will have a P0128 code.

For OBDII info, read this - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=967204

With a smart phone, for $20-$30 an App and an adapter you can have a much better tool that what you have now.
I'm using Proscan from TOAD. The P0070 was the code for the ambient air temp sensor given to me by the Smog center when I first tried to smog it.

It also popped up on the software when I scanned it and verified that it was my outside temperature sensor (not sure how that affects emission).

Thing is, I was missing the actual sensor, replaced it and P0070 went away. Few miles later, P111F came up.

And that freeze frame was taken right after I started my car in the morning(idling in the driveway) which is why that temperature was so low.

I'm thinking it still has something to do with the temperature sensor because it displays temperatures close to 100F when it is actually around 70F outside.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #4
jfoj
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I do believe for some reason that the outside temperature sensor may in fact trigger a CEL/SES/MIL light, as I recall a discussion on this somewhere here on the board.

I do not think the outside temperature sensor has much to do with the OBDII and emissions, however, OBDII did have partial air conditioning readiness monitoring factored in.

I went and did double check on the P0070 code, why Bentley does not have it listed?? Not the first time I have seen this. But the other code P111F, appears to be a bad PID read by the OBD software you are using. I would get a different tool and read your codes again, I also see some of your Emission Readiness Monitors are not cleared, assume you had not had a chance to drive the car for 2 days and had any highway driving?

Here is what I would do.

Read the 3rd link below in my signature on engine temp and thermostat. Just make sure your engine operating temps are correct.

If the ambient temp sensor is not a least close to accurate, then there may be bad wiring or moisture in the connector?

You could try and see with ambient temp sensor reads when the sensor is unplugged and when the wires are shorted.

I recall at some point, maybe with the sensor missing it could read 122F?

Not sure if the wiring is shorted.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:13 AM   #5
Duckie226
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I have this same code, and have been loving with it for months, changed the ambient air temperature sensor...still P111F got it read by mechanic with bmw code reader and a bunch of other ones and he said to replace my Engine computer!?? What the hell is this horrid code! Someone has to know what this code really means. Should I change my engine computer?? How would I even do that? Or what's the actual name/part number? Any help would be appreciated


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Old 06-15-2014, 06:54 AM   #6
jfoj
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I would not even consider changing the DME due to this code unless you have exhausted all other means to sort this out.

I may be wrong, but I have also seen this strange code related to IAT temps.

Assume your MAF is a 5/6 pin MAF, if so the IAT is integrated into the MAF and the MAF or IAT wiring to the MAF may be within question.

Suggest you check and monitor the IAT temps closely to see if this is in fact related to the IAT.

Again, I am not very sure on this, just have run across some info I am basing my assumption on.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:09 AM   #7
Duckie226
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^Hm okay, so I will check the IAT, I recently bought the car and the guy had replaced the old MAF sensor but now I'm thinking it might be defective or dirty or installed it wrong.
Quick questions before I start messing around with the MAF:

1.Im thinking he cheaped out and bought an off brand MAF sensor, how can I tell if it's OEM or some other brand?

2.Do I have to disconnect the battery if I'm going to be removing the MAF and snooping around in there? (sorry new to the car and forums and have a feeling this is a dumb question)

3.What exactly should I be looking for if anything and is cleaning it and such, a good start/idea?

Thank you, I will be updating after I try to figure this out..


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Old 06-15-2014, 08:44 AM   #8
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckie226 View Post
^Hm okay, so I will check the IAT, I recently bought the car and the guy had replaced the old MAF sensor but now I'm thinking it might be defective or dirty or installed it wrong.
Quick questions before I start messing around with the MAF:

1.Im thinking he cheaped out and bought an off brand MAF sensor, how can I tell if it's OEM or some other brand?
Cheap MAF's are a #1 nightmare for people because you have the idea that the MAF is new, so it cannot be the problem. There are WAY too many counterfeit MAF's on the market. See if you can get your original MAF back and install it. If not, check to see if the

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckie226 View Post
2.Do I have to disconnect the battery if I'm going to be removing the MAF and snooping around in there? (sorry new to the car and forums and have a feeling this is a dumb question)
You do not need to disconnect the battery to disconnect/remove the MAF, overall there should not be too much to worry about as for disconnecting the battery for looking around near the MAF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckie226 View Post
3.What exactly should I be looking for if anything and is cleaning it and such, a good start/idea?
Might check the female terminals on the MAF connector to make sure they are snug enough to grip the MAF pins. Test with a paper clips and you may need to slightly pinch the female MAF terminals in order to make sure the MAF has a good connection. Not sure if your car has the IAT built into the MAF or the separate IAT mounted in the intake. If the MAF has a 3 pin connector, then the IAT is mounted in the intake. If the MAF has a 5/6 pin MAF the IAT is integrated into the MAF.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 06-15-2014 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:17 PM   #9
bfattah
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Untolten did you ever solve the issue with p111f? I initially had the code p0070 and once I changed the temp sensor, p0070 code went away but now I have p111f. Any help is appreciated!
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Old 03-06-2016, 10:27 AM   #10
jfoj
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Looking at my notes, P111F is for the Ambient Air Temperature Sensor.

It is unclear if this specific code is for a Open, Short or just a inoperative sensor.

So I would monitor the Ambient Temperature from the OBC and see if it close to accurate as well as make sure the temperature sensor is an OEM type of sensor and not an aftermarket sensor.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:14 AM   #11
bfattah
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jfoj thanks for the reply. When i bought the car the sensor and plug were missing. I ordered a new sensor and connector at bavarianmotorpart on eBay. It says is OEM. Now my car doesn't come with the package where I can see the outside temp from my cluster. Reading online, I figured out how to manually different things in the cluster and see the outside temp. I noticed the sensor is reading about 3 Celsius off. I plan to take the sensor out and see if I get the orginal p0070 code back. If that is the case, i'll just go to the dealership and get a sensor from them and hopefully the p111f goes away and I can do my annual inspection.
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