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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 04-20-2014, 01:45 PM   #41
KNGJN
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I'd prefer a Sedan honestly, but the Coupe you posted seems like a good deal, what goes into the motor swap on these cars? Easy or hard? Is it economic to do it?

PS: I've been on CL every day, how did you find those?
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:51 PM   #42
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When did I say there was a lower ratio than 2.93? I was saying he could opt to swap the lower ratio diff found in manual cars. Lower as in lower relative to the diff that is currently in the car. And he might consider that if he wants to replicate a stock manual E46.



DSC light can be many, many things.

You can probably do it just fine with that budget.
BMW 330 autos come with 3.38 ratio and manual 330s come with 2.93 ratios. The 3.38 auto diff despite being the higher number is the lower ratio relative to the 2.93 manual diff. So why would someone with a 3.38 ratio diff want to swap in a 2.93 from a manual as you suggested?
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Old 04-20-2014, 02:52 PM   #43
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No one was implying that he should buy the damn car for the differential. The point, which you clearly missed, was that if he does buy the car and perform the swap, he can leave the differential in the vehicle because it is a positive. People with manual e46s view the 3.38 automatic diff as a performance upgrade.
This is correct.
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Old 04-20-2014, 04:44 PM   #44
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I'm calling the 2.93 the lower ratio because 2.93<3.38. :-) I am fully aware of what comes in the auto and you know it.


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Old 04-20-2014, 06:48 PM   #45
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I'm calling the 2.93 the lower ratio because 2.93<3.38. :-) I am fully aware of what comes in the auto and you know it.


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you may or may not want to swap in the lower ratio diff from the manual as well.
You still haven't explained why one would want to swap in a "lower" diff ratio (as you call it) or 2.93 in place of the 3.38 already in place, as you suggested. Care to address this? I am wondering what you meant.

Since you're an engineer, I was shocked that you labled the ratios incorrectly. That's all.

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:52 PM   #46
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Looking at an E46 with a blown tranny...

I did not label ratios incorrectly. 2.93 is the lower RATIO; higher or taller GEARING. key words there buddy.

I suggested he might do it if he was uncomfortable with the highway rpm of the 3.38 paired with a 5 speed. It was just a small thought not even a recommendation to do it.

Good to know you're back to your regular levels of pedantry though


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Old 04-20-2014, 07:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
I did not label ratios incorrectly. 2.93 is the lower RATIO; higher or taller GEARING. key words there buddy.

I suggested he might do it if he was uncomfortable with the highway rpm of the 3.38 paired with a 5 speed. It was just a small thought not even a recommendation to do it.

Good to know you're back to your regular levels of pedantry though


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Are you saying I'm being pedantic or am I incorrect? I'm sure you'd be the first to call me incorrect if I was actually incorrect. So which is it?

"The higher the number, the lower the ratio: a 5.29 gear has a lower ratio than a 4.10 gear."


"A high numerical gear ratio is called a low gear or low rear end, and vice versa. Low gears give fast acceleration, high gears give better cruising"

Sources:

http://www.differentials.com/technical-help/faqs

http://diffsonline.com/technical-information.html

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:40 PM   #48
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I'm saying you are dead wrong. When speaking about RATIOS it only makes sense to talk about the numerical value. When saying gearing things flip. You'd never hear an engineer worth his salt talking about 2.93 being a higher ratio than 3.38. It's a higher gearing and a lower ratio. Notice how I specifically denoted "ratio" in all my posts.


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Old 04-20-2014, 07:51 PM   #49
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I'm saying you are dead wrong. When speaking about RATIOS it only makes sense to talk about the numerical value. When saying gearing things flip. You'd never hear an engineer worth his salt talking about 2.93 being a higher ratio than 3.38. It's a higher gearing and a lower ratio. Notice how I specifically denoted "ratio" in all my posts.


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the lower ratio diff from the manual as well.
You conveniently ignore the information I posted from sources including below and diffsonline. Are you saying these sites are incorrect? Just admit you were wrong. You stated the manual has a lower ratio differential when clearly it is a higher ratio (despite being numerically lower). I think you were just caught with your pants down and you are finding some technicality to weasel your way out of it. :-p

If you are simply talking numerics, then just say so. But if you want to be correct, the websites below explain that a numerically lower number results in a higher ratio, not a lower one. That is all.

"The higher the number, the lower the ratio: a 5.29 gear has a lower ratio than a 4.10 gear."

http://www.differentials.com/technical-help/faqs

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:58 PM   #50
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Looking at an E46 with a blown tranny...

I am talking numerical so if you want to catch me on that fine. But the convention of calling what is actually a lower ratio a higher one is idiotic at best. You would never refer to a ratio like that. Even diffs online doesn't refer to the ratio they said for example that the 2.93 is a higher gearing and the 3.38 is a lower gearing. The only reason those conventions exist is because of garage junkies who don't know about numbers.

Differentials.com is incorrect and that was written by an uneducated idiot. Never in the history of ever has a higher number been lower than a lower number. He just said that 5<4. He's an idiot. Period. The 5 is a lower GEARING and a higher ratio. I will not ever concede that.


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Old 04-20-2014, 08:02 PM   #51
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If you want me to repeat myself:

2.93:1 is a lower ratio than 3.38:1

And 2.93:1 = 2.93 so...

If you disagree well go back to kindergarten.


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Old 04-20-2014, 08:02 PM   #52
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Yeah, there is a guy local here selling an E46, mint with no motor or trans. Just the shell and interior. He wants 3 grand. I told him he's freaking nuts.

I wouldn't pay for than 750 bucks for a car that I can't test drive first. The risk isn't worth it, you could end up paying 2500 for 250 bucks worth of scrap metal.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:34 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
If you want me to repeat myself:

2.93:1 is a lower ratio than 3.38:1

And 2.93:1 = 2.93 so...

If you disagree well go back to kindergarten.


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"A vehicle's rear axle ratio is numerically expressed. A higher number denotes a lower ratio. For example, if the axle ratios were listed as 3.31:1 and 3.42:1 and 3.55:1 and 4.10:1, the lowest ratio of the four gears is 4.10:1. The lower the gear ratio, the more rpm required to maintain a given speed with equivalent tire sizes."

What gear ratio do I need?
Differential Gear Ratio determines the number of times the drive shaft (or pinion) will rotate for each turn of the wheels (or ring gear). So if you have a 3.73:1 gear ratio the drive shaft turns 3.73 times for every turn of the wheel.

Gear ratio is calculated by dividing the number of teeth on the ring gear by the number of teeth on the pinion gear. The higher the number, the lower the ratio: a 5.29 gear has a lower ratio than a 4.10 gear. With a lower gear ratio the drive shaft (and thus the engine) turns more for each revolution of the wheel, delivering more power and torque to the wheel for any given speed. Lower ratios are generally desirable when going off-road. Higher ratios are better for freeway driving since they run at lower RPM’s and offer better fuel economy.

"Changing tire size affects the final drive ratio. Switching from a 30" tire to a 35" tire changes the final drive ratio by about 17%. This may drop the engine out of its' "power band" and result in poor performance and fuel economy. To restore performance you must change the gear ratio to compensate for the change in tire size. If you originally had 3.07 gears you need a ratio that is approximately 17% lower, such as 3.55. If you want to increase off road performance you might want a 4.10 or lower ratio."

http://www.ringpinion.com/TechnicalHelp/TechHelp.aspx

http://www.provenforce.com/rear_end/rear_end_cat.html

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/list_7684420_rea...#ixzz2zToDezNY

http://www.trucktestdigest.com/axle%20ratios.htm

http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/i...p?categoryID=6

http://www.automedia.com/Differentia...ht20011201rg/1

http://www.pencilgeek.org/2008/11/ch...final-dri.html

http://www.4wd.com/jeep-advisors/dri...n-advisor.aspx

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofdif.htm

http://www.ehow.com/list_7684420_rea...s-gas-mpg.html

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Old 04-20-2014, 08:40 PM   #54
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this thread needs a touch more ego

cavi mike? thoughts?
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:55 PM   #55
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"A higher number denotes a lower ratio"

HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Dumbest statement of all time. I don't care what your bullshit sources are for that. If you look at Wikipedia it actually avoids using the terms higher or lower ratio because too many people, who have no sense of numerical conventions, got things mixed.

The only reason things ended up like this was because some shade tree mechanics couldn't understand the concept that as you shift gears up (in the tranny) that the ratio actually lowers.

Nowhere ever in the history of the English language will a lower number ever be referred to as higher.


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Old 04-21-2014, 12:36 AM   #56
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NONE of this argument is relative.

Stay on topic, I don't want to lose this thread over nonsense. I want to stay on here and keep everyone updated.

That being said, I'm going to look at the one with the blown motor this week actually.

Thanks for the help guys!
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:24 AM   #57
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Sounds good man.

I know you already decided to pass on the 330i with the toast transmission. I'd offer them $1200, and if they really want to get rid of it, they'll take it, and if not -- then move on.

If you get one with a toast motor, first make sure the motor is actually toast. A member on here got a fully functional 330ci with 107k with a ton of goodies for $600 because the previous owner thought the motor was toast. However, if the motor is toast, then I recommend an S54.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:31 AM   #58
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Sweet deal man, I was just thinking that today too ('that' being that the motor isn't actually blown)

I'd love to do the S54 swap, but then the motor is gonna cost double what I was looking to spend haha, that'll put me way over budget.

Wish me luck, and I'll let you guys know this week!
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:21 AM   #59
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Sweet deal man, I was just thinking that today too ('that' being that the motor isn't actually blown)

I'd love to do the S54 swap, but then the motor is gonna cost double what I was looking to spend haha, that'll put me way over budget.

Wish me luck, and I'll let you guys know this week!
good luck should be a good project if it isn't rotting away
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:04 AM   #60
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Just plan on $2-3k in regular maintenance aside from any bad trannies and motors. If you look at the cost to own threads you will see many posts of people paying $2-4k to get a neglected car back up to par. These cars need a lot of stuff replaced around the 100k mile mark. So if a trans swap is $2k and you need $3k for maintenance stuff, you are looking at paying $1,500-$2k for the car in the OP. If I wanted a sedan I would offer the owner of the original car $1,800 or so and see how bad he wants to sell it.
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