E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 07-21-2014, 11:35 PM   #1
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
Car died, now won't start

OK, so... I'll probably get a bunch of "did you search for it?" questions, but I promise I did some due diligence up front before posting. I just couldn't find identical symptoms on the other threads.

On Friday I was driving to work, I was low on gas so I went to fill up at the local station. I topped off with premium gas and started to get back onto the highway... about 100 ft onto the on ramp and it almost feels like something breaks, pushing the pedal wouldn't accelerate and the car basically coasted to a stop (motor running, but no power) and then cuts off. I get it towed back to my house and read the codes p0300, p0303 and p0304, which to my understanding are all misfire codes.

I first thought fuel pump / fuel filter. I hadn't changed either since owning the car, I realize I was long over due for a fuel filter as I'd had the car for 7 years now. So, I pulled the rear seat and could hear a very faint hum from the pump, but nothing as significant as I was hearing from youtube videos online. I figured it needed to be done anyway and seemed like a likely culprit so I ordered the parts and did both tonight after work.

No dice, car still won't start. The car turns over, but won't come to life.

I checked the port at the fuel rail, there seems to be pressure buildup... so I've marked fuel off the list.

I've looked at "the boot" by the throttle body, but can't see any visible cracks with it still attached. I don't think the boot would cause complete failure like that though, so I'm hesitant to try and pull that thing off.

I've rebuilt the DISA once before, so I may take it off to inspect the rebuild is still functioning... maybe it got stuck closed? Maybe it's a clogged ICV?

I could check to see if there's spark, but I just can't see how multiple cylinders went wacko like that at once.

My guess is it's something with the vac system... I'm open to suggestions on things to try.

But, what would make the car give that feeling like something broke (i.e. immediate power loss) and the motor run until it's stopped and stalls?



Some other brief history on the car:

Two weeks ago on the way home from work I noticed a large trail of fluid under the car after I parked in the garage, but had to run out quickly after getting home so I just assumed it was the AC b/c of how how it was out. Very shortly after leaving home, I notice the AC went off and then the overheat light was coming on. I pulled over and parked, let it sit and then limped it back home before it got back into the red. I poured some water into the expansion tank and sure enough, there was a stream coming down the side. I replaced it and everything was working normally.

A week later I notice an oil leak starting. I've changed the VCG and OFHG on the car somewhat recently, but I checked the trouble spots for oil and found none. Long story short, I think the CCV is starting to go and this is likely my oil leak problem.

Could these two be related?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm hoping I can get some good input to avoid taking it to the shop.

Thanks!

EDIT: BTW it's a 04 325i

Last edited by MattRivNCSU; 07-21-2014 at 11:39 PM.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 07-21-2014, 11:56 PM   #2
HakenTT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: gross deutsches reich USA
Posts: 958
My Ride: 323i with S54
Quote:
No dice, car still won't start. The car turns over, but won't come to life.
Engine won't start. Engine is cranking but it won't start. That is how you describe this. And because the way you describe that, I think you should not touch your car, but rather tow it to the shop and let the pros diagnose it at least. It is only $80 for diagnostics in most shops.
__________________
Siemens MS43 tuning master
HakenTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 02:18 AM   #3
Pottsy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: High Point,nc
Posts: 54
My Ride: 2004 330i zhp
Tow it to bmw, they will fix it.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Pottsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 06:21 AM   #4
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
Engine won't start. Engine is cranking but it won't start. That is how you describe this. And because the way you describe that, I think you should not touch your car, but rather tow it to the shop and let the pros diagnose it at least. It is only $80 for diagnostics in most shops.
I guess I'm a little confused, are you criticizing my verbiage or the shape of the car?

I was trying to get the point across that the motor attempts to start (i.e. it doesn't seem to be an issue with the battery or the starter), but never quite comes to life at the end of the starting process.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 06:27 AM   #5
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,844
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
You claim the engine has fuel, but a $3 can of starting fluid will confirm 100% sure if the problem is fuel or not.

Also read this - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1011677
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 06:44 AM   #6
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
Jfoj, thanks for the info. I'll try that next. If I've replaced the fuel pump (it definitely comes on), filter and am getting pressure at the service port on the fuel rail... it would have to be the injectors right?

I've already read that link and is basically what I've used as a thought process while diagnosing the issue.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 07:07 AM   #7
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,844
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattRivNCSU View Post
Jfoj, thanks for the info. I'll try that next. If I've replaced the fuel pump (it definitely comes on), filter and am getting pressure at the service port on the fuel rail... it would have to be the injectors right?

I've already read that link and is basically what I've used as a thought process while diagnosing the issue.
Occasionally you can get a bad load of fuel that will not allow the engine to start/run. What happens is you check and verify fuel pressure, but do not know the fuel quality. Then you spin your wheels chasing other problems and get nowhere after days and days until you just happen back to a fuel issue which you have been convinced is not a problem because fuel pressure was available/good.

The starting fluid test quickly rules out any fuel related problem 100%. If you have no life from the engine using starting fluid, engine should as least kick or run then die, then checking for spark is the next step.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 07:25 AM   #8
bmwbob89
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newburyport Ma,
Posts: 812
My Ride: M-5 325 X3 528 740
It sounds like bad fuel. If it happened immediately after getting gas that would be the first place to look. If it is call the gas station right away and they should pay for the repair. Usually you can just get the fuel pumped out and get it going again. Pull the fuel pump fuse and as jfoj says use some starting fluid.
bmwbob89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 08:14 AM   #9
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
My first thought was bad fuel. I'll try the starting fluid tonight to know if i can officially rule out fuel as the issue. What's the best practice for doing this test?

Remove the DISA and spray into the throttle body, then start?

Last edited by MattRivNCSU; 07-22-2014 at 08:16 AM.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 08:24 AM   #10
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,844
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattRivNCSU View Post
My first thought was bad fuel. I'll try the starting fluid tonight to know if i can officially rule out fuel as the issue. What's the best practice for doing this test?

Remove the DISA and spray into the throttle body, then start?
DO NOT REMOVE THE DISA, maybe you stated the wrong component??

Just pop the air filter or remove the upper intake hose from the MAF, which ever is easier. Spray a real 2 second burst of starting fluid into the intake air path, try to start the engine.

The engine will also immediately start then die or will at least kick a few times like it wants to start.

If you get absolutely no response from the engine using starting fluid, then there may not be spark for some reason like a crank sensor, relay or blown fuse.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 07-22-2014 at 08:25 AM.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 08:30 AM   #11
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
I assume you don't want to remove the DISA because I'll need a new o-ring to seal it again? I rebuilt the DISA about 10k miles ago, I know what it is.

I'll just remove the airbox and follow your instructions.

Thanks!

Last edited by MattRivNCSU; 07-22-2014 at 08:32 AM.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 08:43 AM   #12
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,844
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattRivNCSU View Post
I assume you don't want to remove the DISA because I'll need a new o-ring to seal it again? I rebuilt the DISA about 10k miles ago, I know what it is.
No, you do not want to remove the DISA and ever try to start an engine as there is no way to limit or throttle the air. In some cases this action could cause a run away engine that cannot be controlled.

Doubt this would happen with drive by wire throttle body, but with starting fluid you have a big problem with a 2" open port to the intake and a fuel source, no way to control the engine RPM. Granted the engine might not run long, but I would not want to try this experiment with my car!
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 11:48 AM   #13
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
So does anyone have an experience where the CCV caused an issue like this? It's leaking some oil and has been since the winter.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 12:00 PM   #14
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,844
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
CCV will not cause a car to die and no start unless is sucks oil out of the pan and hydrolocks the engine. Usually only happens in the Winter when the CCV freezes up.

You either have a bad load of fuel, no fuel and/or spark to the engine.

Do not over think this, it should be pretty easy to sort out or at least figure out what you are missing in the way of fuel or spark.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 02:30 PM   #15
lszlszx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Socal
Posts: 5,345
My Ride: 1.8T, XC70
About 100 feet after filling up the engine started running bad?

I'm sure you don't like the idea of draining the whole tank, but....

If you're skeptical, check for spark. The plugs might be saturated with fuel.
If there is spark and fuel, it must be bad gas.

You can call the gas station too, you won't be the only one.
__________________


GM No Reverse - posts 427, 439

"Would the codes indicate if it's the carburator?"
lszlszx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 03:08 PM   #16
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
I appreciate you guys talking me off the ledge as I was starting to think this was a more severe issue than I initially thought. My plan of attack for tonight will be to try the starting fluid. If there is fuel, I'll check for spark and inspect the plugs.

Any other course of action at this point?

Last edited by MattRivNCSU; 07-22-2014 at 03:09 PM.
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 05:05 PM   #17
MattRivNCSU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 10
My Ride: 2004 325i
Update: I picked up some starter fluid and shot it directly into the tank, got it to start.

As I'm typing this, I see on the news that THIS GAS STATION HAD WATER IN THE GAS?!?!?!!

What should I do?
MattRivNCSU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 05:22 PM   #18
MindFK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 257
My Ride: 330Ci
Here is an idea, research how denatured alcohol mixes with water, denatured alcohol is technically speaking a form of ethanol, there is ethanol in fuel. I'm not a chemical engineer and I am not sure about mixology but it could work. I know for a fact that some people do this to get rid of water in their gas tanks. Water is heavier than gas, drains to the bottom of the tank, then gets sucked by fuel pump and people have a problem like you do. Why don't you siphon some gas out of your tank, borrow fuel cans from your neighbors and explain the problem. Remove few gallons and then add a quart of denatured alcohol from Home depot or Lowes.
__________________
MindFK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 05:33 PM   #19
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 22,844
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
I personally would take the lazy way out.

Get/borrow a fuel pressure tester with a bleed off port. Most have them for verifying fuel pump Volume.

Then I would get at least a empty 2 gallon gas can, or a few or a lager can.

Then the trick is to get the fuel pump to work. You might get lucky since the car has sat that all the water has dropped to the bottom of the tank.

You need to either pull the fuel pump relay and jump the socket, a PITA or just cycle the key on an off, or pull the rear seat and jump the pump at the connector. Also note the pump should run when cranking the engine, if you can get the engine to start at all, then you can keep bleeding the fuel off. Pump out fuel until it appears to be clear of water, assuming it is water and not Diesel or a bad Ethanol mix.

Hopefully it is only a few gallons that you need to get out to get the car started. Then top off with fresh fuel. As they say, "The solution to pollution is dilution."

Then the PROBLEM is disposing of what you get out of the tank. Most waste oil places will not take fuel of any sort, but your local government trash dump may have HazMat drop off??
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 07-22-2014 at 05:35 PM.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 06:19 PM   #20
bmwbob89
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newburyport Ma,
Posts: 812
My Ride: M-5 325 X3 528 740
You need to get all of that fuel out of the tank. Tow it to a shop that has a pump and tank. Every dealer should have one. You get out all of the fuel you can that way and then jump the fuel pump to get the remainder out. They can dispose of the bad gas too and you will have a receipt of the repair to get your money from the gas station. Contact them right now and keep your receipt for the fuel. They might try and sell you new injectors but they will probably be fine once it all clears out. You will need to replace the fuel filter again too. I've dealt with plenty of these.

Last edited by bmwbob89; 07-22-2014 at 06:21 PM.
bmwbob89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boot, ccv, misfire, vacuum leak

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use