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E46 Xi Forum
The E46 XI was produced from 01-05 in sedan and touring body styles. Powered by either a 2.5L inline 6 in the 325xi or a 3.0L inline 6 330xi. Discuss all thing about BMW AWD E46 'Xi' here.

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Old 09-10-2016, 07:16 PM   #1
apseagle
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"Have your cake" suspension review

After spending quite a bit of time on the phone with Rob43 where he really listened to how I was going to use my car and what I was wanting out of it, he recommended going ahead with his "have your cake and eat it too" suspension package. I took about 4 weeks to round up the parts to get it done. Today was the day.

First thing I did was to take some measurements from center of the wheel to the arch to see how much I drop with the package. I ended up with a 7/8" drop. This is without putting a single mile on the car. It will settle a tad more over the next couple of weeks or so.

Before:

After:


Sorry about the lighting and shadows. It took me about 6 hours to get it done taking my time. I also replaced the FLCAB with Powerflex units.





I will be updating this thread over the next few days as I drive it. Right now I have all 4 shocks on their softest settings. I have a full alignment scheduled for Monday morning at 8.

The stock shocks had 202,118 miles on them and were not leaking at all. Of course, they had no nitrogen charge left to push the oil out. The control arm bushings were ready to be replaced, but honestly, could have gone longer.

I will post my first actual driving review Monday.
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Old 09-10-2016, 07:58 PM   #2
erehtuo
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Looks great!
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:26 PM   #3
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Yes, it looks very nice !

You should let everyone know that we were going for "function" as a DD & Not Maximum Low with your particular build. (I'm trying to remember,...snow usage ?)

I / we can't wait for your ~100 mile & ~500 mile thoughts/review.



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Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.

Last edited by Rob43; 10-19-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 09-12-2016, 02:47 PM   #4
apseagle
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Yes, this was a DD setup. No tracking, stanced, auto-x or "for show" lowering. Had the alignment this morning. The car handles superbly. It handles the bumps and rough roads firmly, but very compliant. But that does not mean in any way that it is not up to working it's way through the canyons at well above "arrest me" speeds. I ran it up a local mountain road just outside of town and really pushed her into the corners. Excellent stability and the car remained very flat. A few of the corners have mild dips right at the apex. Since I have been racing Porsches and sport bikes up this road for going on 30+ years, I was not only ready for them, I expected them and wanted to see how the car would behave. Bee hit the dips at speed at near the maximum available cornering speed offered by the new Conti Extreme Contact DWS06 tires I installed and went through them without a care in the world. No bump steer, no loss of traction, and she did not even stray from her line at all. I am very impressed. I am also very impressed with the tires, but that is another review for another day.

But since this is a daily driver, I wanted more than an apex killer. It had to survive in the real world. Around town the car feels solid, yet very smooth and compliant over rough roads. No odd noises, no jarring your teeth out, no scraping over speed bumps, etc. It feels exactly how a car like this should feel. Credit to Rob43 and the countless hours and $$ invested researching the correct package for our Xi cars. I am very impressed. And that comes from a man with over 30 years competitively competing Porsches and road race motorcycles. I have also owned a motorcycle performance suspension business for the last 8 years. I know how a suspension is supposed to work.

And on that note. If you think the only way to get good handling out of a car is to slam it to the ground and stiffen up the suspension so stiff you feel the paint on the roads, I have news for you, you are wrong. There is so much more to handling than stiff and low. Proper compression and rebound valving in the shocks matched to the proper springs is paramount. If your car is so stiff it can not absorb road imperfections, you will loose traction, period.

So, I will keep posting my impressions over the next few hundred miles. In the mean time, if you want your cake and eat it too, send Rob43 a PM and then follow his directions.

Last edited by apseagle; 09-12-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:35 PM   #5
zander271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apseagle View Post
And on that note. If you think the only way to get good handling out of a car is to slam it to the ground and stiffen up the suspension so stiff you feel the paint on the roads, I have news for you, you are wrong. There is so much more to handling than stiff and low. Proper compression and rebound valving in the shocks matched to the proper springs is paramount. If your car is so stiff it can not absorb road imperfections, you will loose traction, period.
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330xi Mods:Front Koni Yellow Struts and Rob43 Rear 9 Way adjustable Rear Dampers,Custom Sport Springs,Supreme Power Drop Hats,ZHP 5 speed shift knob
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apseagle View Post
Yes, this was a DD setup. Since I have been racing Porsches and sport bikes up this road for going on 30+ years, I was not only ready for them, I expected them and wanted to see how the car would behave.

But since this is a daily driver, I wanted more than an apex killer. It had to survive in the real world. Around town the car feels solid, yet very smooth and compliant over rough roads. No odd noises, no jarring your teeth out, no scraping over speed bumps, etc. It feels exactly how a car like this should feel. Credit to Rob43 and the countless hours and $$ invested researching the correct package for our Xi cars. I am very impressed. And that comes from a man with over 30 years competitively competing Porsches and road race motorcycles. I have also owned a motorcycle performance suspension business for the last 8 years. I know how a suspension is supposed to work.

So, I will keep posting my impressions over the next few hundred miles. In the mean time, if you want your cake and eat it too, send Rob43 a PM and then follow his directions.
WOW /// that's a hell of a write up!

It's great that you have 30 years of racing experience because your thoughts on how it drives means so much more than the average younger guy experiencing the same thing. I also have a Rob built suspension on my rwd 330ci, it really works great and if i want even more out of it for sporty weekend driving i just turn up the settings on the front and rear shocks a little bit more.
Being able to make adjustments in seconds is really great for dialing it in quick n easy.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apseagle View Post
Yes, this was a DD setup. No tracking, stanced, auto-x or "for show" lowering. Had the alignment this morning. The car handles superbly. It handles the bumps and rough roads firmly, but very compliant. But that does not mean in any way that it is not up to working it's way through the canyons at well above "arrest me" speeds. I ran it up a local mountain road just outside of town and really pushed her into the corners. Excellent stability and the car remained very flat. A few of the corners have mild dips right at the apex. Since I have been racing Porsches and sport bikes up this road for going on 30+ years, I was not only ready for them, I expected them and wanted to see how the car would behave. Bee hit the dips at speed at near the maximum available cornering speed offered by the new Conti Extreme Contact DWS06 tires I installed and went through them without a care in the world. No bump steer, no loss of traction, and she did not even stray from her line at all. I am very impressed. I am also very impressed with the tires, but that is another review for another day.

But since this is a daily driver, I wanted more than an apex killer. It had to survive in the real world. Around town the car feels solid, yet very smooth and compliant over rough roads. No odd noises, no jarring your teeth out, no scraping over speed bumps, etc. It feels exactly how a car like this should feel. Credit to Rob43 and the countless hours and $$ invested researching the correct package for our Xi cars. I am very impressed. And that comes from a man with over 30 years competitively competing Porsches and road race motorcycles. I have also owned a motorcycle performance suspension business for the last 8 years. I know how a suspension is supposed to work.

And on that note. If you think the only way to get good handling out of a car is to slam it to the ground and stiffen up the suspension so stiff you feel the paint on the roads, I have news for you, you are wrong. There is so much more to handling than stiff and low. Proper compression and rebound valving in the shocks matched to the proper springs is paramount. If your car is so stiff it can not absorb road imperfections, you will loose traction, period.

So, I will keep posting my impressions over the next few hundred miles. In the mean time, if you want your cake and eat it too, send Rob43 a PM and then follow his directions.

Yes, any new shocks and springs will improve handling on a 200k+ mile car.

I find it odd that you have racing experience but decided to buy the Continetal DW tires...which are lame. Not trying to insult but Super Sports absolutely destroy the Conti's in every way.

I also find it odd that no one mentions balance in any of these ebay suspension threads....the look and "feel" of ebay springs is one thing. Actually dialing out the understeer is what brings downs lap times, wins autoxes, and raises confidence on the street- camber plates and a big rear sway are non-negotiable if you want it to handle neutrally.
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Yes, any new shocks and springs will improve handling on a 200k+ mile car.

I find it odd that you have racing experience but decided to buy the Continetal DW tires...which are lame. Not trying to insult but Super Sports absolutely destroy the Conti's in every way.

I also find it odd that no one mentions balance in any of these ebay suspension threads....the look and "feel" of ebay springs is one thing. Actually dialing out the understeer is what brings downs lap times, wins autoxes, and raises confidence on the street- camber plates and a big rear sway are non-negotiable if you want it to handle neutrally.
Lol, oh kubca there you go again. The next thing you know you'll be pissing and moaning about how how bilsteins repeatedly failed you. lol

Did anyone mention that this daily driver car was to be used as a race car? NO. This xi is located in snow country and will be used for its intended awd purpose. Conti dws 06 (dws=Dry/Wet/Snow) are the perfect tire for his needs, the thought that you would recommend Michelin pss to the op underscores how little you understand how things work.

I trust a guy like the op 10:1 over you based on the op owning a suspension shop and 30 years of racing experience, you were probably in diapers 30 years back.
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Yes, any new shocks and springs will improve handling on a 200k+ mile car.

I find it odd that you have racing experience but decided to buy the Continetal DW tires...which are lame. Not trying to insult but Super Sports absolutely destroy the Conti's in every way.

I also find it odd that no one mentions balance in any of these ebay suspension threads....the look and "feel" of ebay springs is one thing. Actually dialing out the understeer is what brings downs lap times, wins autoxes, and raises confidence on the street- camber plates and a big rear sway are non-negotiable if you want it to handle neutrally.
Bring your car shod with SS's here to Idaho in January and we will have a time trial race from Idaho City to Lowman. The Conti's are absolutely perfect for what my intended purpose is; four season driving in SW Idaho. Everything from HOT to sub zero and snow. Heck, there might even be some gravel roads thrown in from time to time. I have no desire to have two sets of wheels and tires. The Conti's perform in the warm and dry far better than I will probably ever ask them to perform, so it is a non issue.

If I was worried about getting the max performance out of this car, which I thought I made perfectly clear in the OP, I am not, then I would have done everything different in my setup. And yes, I actually own a set of digital corner scales and know how to use them properly.

So, again I state it. This is the perfect suspension setup for anyone who has an Xi who wants it to handle fantastic, on a budget, and within the realms of daily driving. That said, with a set of comp tires on it I bet it would get around a road course pretty respectfully. FYI, only the front springs were sourced on Ebay.

Last edited by apseagle; 09-13-2016 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:04 PM   #10
zander271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Yes, any new shocks and springs will improve handling on a 200k+ mile car.

I find it odd that you have racing experience but decided to buy the Continetal DW tires...which are lame. Not trying to insult but Super Sports absolutely destroy the Conti's in every way.

I also find it odd that no one mentions balance in any of these ebay suspension threads....the look and "feel" of ebay springs is one thing. Actually dialing out the understeer is what brings downs lap times, wins autoxes, and raises confidence on the street- camber plates and a big rear sway are non-negotiable if you want it to handle neutrally.


Really Kubica? This setup is an absolute improvement over stock with the sensibility of DD use. It also snows were he lives so he does not want the car as low as he can get it. I personally have had this setup on my car to test and it was exactly as the OP described.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apseagle View Post
Yes, this was a DD setup. No tracking, stanced, auto-x or "for show" lowering.
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330xi Mods:Front Koni Yellow Struts and Rob43 Rear 9 Way adjustable Rear Dampers,Custom Sport Springs,Supreme Power Drop Hats,ZHP 5 speed shift knob

Last edited by zander271; 09-13-2016 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 09-14-2016, 01:27 PM   #11
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Let's get this back on topic.

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Old 09-14-2016, 01:58 PM   #12
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Some more seat time. Suspension is starting to settle in and is feeling even better. Rough roads do not even phase it. Chassis stays straight and true even when I am trying to hit every bump. No issues with entering steep driveways as the front only dropped 1" and the rear is still stock height. Speed bumps are an non issue.

I am planning on a longer drive this weekend with a mix of urban and canyon roads. Will play with the adjustment on the Koni sports (front) and Rob43 adjustable (rears) and see how that affects different aspects of the drive. Last night on a set of curves I intentionally went in hot and lifted on the throttle mid turn to see what would happen. Well, I apparently was not going hot enough as the car had no negative reaction. No snap over steer or lazy under steer. Car stayed on track. I will push it harder Saturday to see if it exhibits over or under steer and see how it responds to adjustments. I am doing this for my own information only as I did not build this car to be an ultimate corner carver. That said, it is proving to do quite well at it.

Oh, notes about the alignment. I had the shop set it up to stock specs since it is a DD. I did not want to be trashing tires every 15-20k or have finicky handling at 85mph on the freeway grooved pavement. One of my last Porsches was set up solely for hill climbs and auto cross. It would corner like no other but would not go straight very well, and grooved concrete on the freeway made it a handful to keep in it's lane.
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Old 09-16-2016, 04:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apseagle View Post
Some more seat time. Suspension is starting to settle in and is feeling even better. Rough roads do not even phase it. Chassis stays straight and true even when I am trying to hit every bump. No issues with entering steep driveways as the front only dropped 1" and the rear is still stock height. Speed bumps are an non issue.

I am planning on a longer drive this weekend with a mix of urban and canyon roads. Will play with the adjustment on the Koni sports (front) and Rob43 adjustable (rears) and see how that affects different aspects of the drive. Last night on a set of curves I intentionally went in hot and lifted on the throttle mid turn to see what would happen. Well, I apparently was not going hot enough as the car had no negative reaction. No snap over steer or lazy under steer. Car stayed on track. I will push it harder Saturday to see if it exhibits over or under steer and see how it responds to adjustments. I am doing this for my own information only as I did not build this car to be an ultimate corner carver. That said, it is proving to do quite well at it.

Oh, notes about the alignment. I had the shop set it up to stock specs since it is a DD. I did not want to be trashing tires every 15-20k or have finicky handling at 85mph on the freeway grooved pavement. One of my last Porsches was set up solely for hill climbs and auto cross. It would corner like no other but would not go straight very well, and grooved concrete on the freeway made it a handful to keep in it's lane.


Everything sounds great, I'm glad you're liking the lower looks, smooth drive-ability, & handling so far. My first thoughts on settings would be a 1/2 turn up front & number 2 on the back, I figure this entire process will take 57.4 seconds to complete.
I/we look forward to your longer drive on Canyon Roads this weekend, please keep us up to date !





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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.

Last edited by Rob43; 09-16-2016 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:40 PM   #14
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What springs are those? They don't look like h&r
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:21 PM   #15
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Send a PM to Rob43. He will get all the information for you.
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:34 PM   #16
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What springs are those? They don't look like h&r
Looks a lot like H&R springs and Koni shocks to me...
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:51 PM   #17
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Right?
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Old 09-17-2016, 01:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Looks a lot like H&R springs and Koni shocks to me...
If you mean #29383's.....Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubica View Post
Right?
LOL, not even close...

Steve, I'm glad you're not a Carnival weight & age guesser, because you'd lose your job quick.




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I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & Xi E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.

Last edited by Rob43; 09-17-2016 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:02 AM   #19
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Hey apseagle what's the specs on the rest of the car?


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Old 09-17-2016, 10:03 AM   #20
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Any motor work?


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