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Old 09-11-2008, 09:32 AM   #21
jbeurotech
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Nope must be done after the sensor has been repalced.
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:33 AM   #22
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Buy the BMW pass-thru tool they are down to $3000 they are super slow but that with a subscription to BMW tis allows you to do what you want to do
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:56 AM   #23
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So basically I should install the new sensor and then take it to a dealer or properly equipped shop and they can calibrate it for me?

Then, for Seth's sake, I should write a strongly worded letter to BMW NA urging them to lower the prices on their service equipment.
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:00 PM   #24
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LOl actually thats pretty afforable equipement way better than the 15K I paid for my gt1 then the 5k for the SSS

Just saying the equpiment is coming within the price range of the DIY's!
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jbeurotech View Post
LOl actually thats pretty afforable equipement way better than the 15K I paid for my gt1 then the 5k for the SSS

Just saying the equpiment is coming within the price range of the DIY's!

Do we have a resident mech in the house?
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:03 PM   #26
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I have been here for a long time
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:32 PM   #27
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Here's some info on the brake pressure sensor(s) - although I don't what distinguishes the "V" sensor from the "H" sensor
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:10 PM   #28
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Also found this in the ETK
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Brake master cylinder dsc.pdf (288.8 KB, 333 views)
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Old 09-12-2008, 01:32 AM   #29
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Any and all info you could ever want about your car is available at www.bmwtis.com. It's $2500 a year or $30 a day. Then you have the same info BMW dealers and Indys have
Seth, why would I pay all that money when I have JPR for free

Not to change the topic, but I had heard changing the steering rack to the zhp's tighter rack ratio would cause a problem because of the calibration of the yaw sensor. And no one seemed to have a remedy for that. Does this sound correct to you guys? Can I just replace the yaw sensor and have it calibrated to the performance package ratio?? Because if this is all that it would take then I'm getting the steering rack.
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:33 AM   #30
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Seth, why would I pay all that money when I have JPR for free

Not to change the topic, but I had heard changing the steering rack to the zhp's tighter rack ratio would cause a problem because of the calibration of the yaw sensor. And no one seemed to have a remedy for that. Does this sound correct to you guys? Can I just replace the yaw sensor and have it calibrated to the performance package ratio?? Because if this is all that it would take then I'm getting the steering rack.
I don't think that's a factor. For one thing, it turns out I and other were mistaken about the ZHP having a different steering rack and ratio. The one that looked like it was different turned out to be the pre-4/01 version. My apologies for my contribution to the confusion.

As for the yaw sensor, what it is really looking for is a mismatch between the actual rotation of the car and the how fast the computer thinks it should be rotating based on the differential wheel speeds.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:43 AM   #31
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Seth, why would I pay all that money when I have JPR for free

Not to change the topic, but I had heard changing the steering rack to the zhp's tighter rack ratio would cause a problem because of the calibration of the yaw sensor. And no one seemed to have a remedy for that. Does this sound correct to you guys? Can I just replace the yaw sensor and have it calibrated to the performance package ratio?? Because if this is all that it would take then I'm getting the steering rack.
If anything, you would simply need it calibrated. But the calibration process is between the DSC system and the sensor, so I doubt it would adjust for physical steering changes. The yaw sensor has the same part number over a broad band of use -- I found one on eBay from a 1998 740iL that is the same part number as I need from my car. I think you could change your steering and forget about the yaw sensor. I don't know about the steering angle sensor, however.

But if the ZHP doesn't have different steering rack, I guess it's moot.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:26 PM   #32
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I don't think that's a factor. For one thing, it turns out I and other were mistaken about the ZHP having a different steering rack and ratio. The one that looked like it was different turned out to be the pre-4/01 version. My apologies for my contribution to the confusion.

As for the yaw sensor, what it is really looking for is a mismatch between the actual rotation of the car and the how fast the computer thinks it should be rotating based on the differential wheel speeds.
Hmm..well other than inputting a zhp vin into the true ETK and getting the part number there and cross checking it. One could always just do a full turning of the steering wheel lock-to-lock and compare. Has anyone done this? The earlier supplied zhp steering rack pn is specific to the 330 with M-Tech sport suspension. Not listed for any other model, so why is that one now thought not to be correct? Realoem isn't very precise in it's description. I would not go by the years for that. Is there a thread on this I missed?
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If anything, you would simply need it calibrated. But the calibration process is between the DSC system and the sensor, so I doubt it would adjust for physical steering changes. The yaw sensor has the same part number over a broad band of use -- I found one on eBay from a 1998 740iL that is the same part number as I need from my car. I think you could change your steering and forget about the yaw sensor. I don't know about the steering angle sensor, however.

But if the ZHP doesn't have different steering rack, I guess it's moot.
Previous threads on the zhp steering rack have shown the dsc giving problems, so if it's just a input into the ecu that's nice to hear. If it's easy to reprogram? But then again, if there is no 13.7:1 ratio then doesn't matter.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:29 PM   #33
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Here's the thread that made me look again at it and draw a different conclusion - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=283973

And going back to RealOEM - look closer at the usage dates and you'll notice that what I thought was the ZHP rack - 32132282296 - actually ended usage in 4/01 - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...32&fg=10&hl=20
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:30 PM   #34
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Previous threads on the zhp steering rack have shown the dsc giving problems, so if it's just a input into the ecu that's nice to hear. If it's easy to reprogram? But then again, if there is no 13.7:1 ratio then doesn't matter.
I think it's going to be as easy as getting the shop to hook it up and click a few buttons on the 'ol DISplus or GT-1. Alls I know about is the accelerating sensor/yaw sensor; but if I were to guess I would say it's the steering angle sensor giving problems with the ZHP steering transplant.

What seems to happen is the steering angle sensor is calibrated with an ID that it uses to communicate to the DSC computer, kind of like a PIN number. After modifications, the sensor looses its ID and must be re-calibrated, or else the DSC computer will think it's not functioning properly.

"As with DSC II, this sensor still requires calibration after repairs to the steering or suspension system. Once the calibration is completed, the sensor now sends an identification number over the CAN bus to the DSC III module. The ID provides confirmation to the DSC module that the steering angle sensor is properly calibrated." (JPR's "DSC Part 1", pg. 13)

That's my best guess.
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:49 PM   #35
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I think it's going to be as easy as getting the shop to hook it up and click a few buttons on the 'ol DISplus or GT-1. Alls I know about is the accelerating sensor/yaw sensor; but if I were to guess I would say it's the steering angle sensor giving problems with the ZHP steering transplant.

What seems to happen is the steering angle sensor is calibrated with an ID that it uses to communicate to the DSC computer, kind of like a PIN number. After modifications, the sensor looses its ID and must be re-calibrated, or else the DSC computer will think it's not functioning properly.

"As with DSC II, this sensor still requires calibration after repairs to the steering or suspension system. Once the calibration is completed, the sensor now sends an identification number over the CAN bus to the DSC III module. The ID provides confirmation to the DSC module that the steering angle sensor is properly calibrated." (JPR's "DSC Part 1", pg. 13)

That's my best guess.
Thanks for the info. Yes, now that you mention it I do think it might have been the steering angle sensor that was the problem listed before.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:00 PM   #36
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Here's the thread that made me look again at it and draw a different conclusion - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=283973

And going back to RealOEM - look closer at the usage dates and you'll notice that what I thought was the ZHP rack - 32132282296 - actually ended usage in 4/01 - http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...32&fg=10&hl=20
Ah I see. Seems like another later 330 model part just carried over and listed to sound like it was specific. As time goes on and information gathered, the zhp-performance package seems to have less special parts.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:15 PM   #37
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Here's an update. This yaw sensor, actually called a speed sensor by BMW, is an accelerometer that measures the pitch and direction of the car relative to the steering angle and the speed of the wheels. It's made by a company called Systron Donner, which makes a lot sensors for military applications. It's a fairly expensive part -- around $550. A new one has to be calibrated to the DSC computer by the dealer. The DSC system won't work without this sensor. I had the yellow exclamation point warning light, no traction control, and no stability control. The brake warning light was absent. The dealer wanted around $900 parts and labor to replace it.

I found a nice alternative to this for anyone looking to DIY this part. According to my local BMW service department, if you find a used sensor that's from the same model as yours (body style, transmission, suspension set up), it doesn't need to be calibrated to the DSC computer; it works plug and play. As luck would have it, I found just that for $125. It's pretty easy to install. You don't need to remove the driver's seat but rather just unbolt it and move it backward. Then you just pop out the threshold and loosen the footrest. Then you fold forward the carpet. Location-wise, think of the sensor as being under the outer most velcro unit for the floor mat. It's in a heavy bracket next to a two-inch thick styrofoam piece that must be shoved forward to allow access to the bolts. After I installed the used speed sensor, my DSC light went off immediately. I drove to a gravel road where I had fun confirming that I once again have traction and stability control!

An interesting note: According to Systron Donner's literature on this sensor, it has an expected useful life of ten years. Guess this means we'll be seeing more of these fail pretty soon.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:07 AM   #38
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.... is an accelerometer that measures the pitch and direction of the car relative to the steering angle and the speed of the wheels....
Just because I like to nitpick, and I actually studied vehicle dynamics in college: The yaw sensor measures the rate of change of yaw. In vehicle dynamics, you have a coordinate system located at the car's center of gravity, which has the X axis pointing out the passenger side, the Y axis in the forward direction of travel, and the Z axis pointing towards the sky. The rotation about X is "pitch", the rotation about Y is "roll" and the rotation about Z is "yaw".

The sensor measures the rate of change (acceleration) of yaw. It doesn't measure it relative to anything, it is merely an accelerometer. However, the traction control system compares the yaw acceleration to the steering input angle and the wheel speed to determine if the car is losing traction.

Since the sensor isn't actually positioned at the car's center of gravity, there's going to be error between the "measured" yaw acceleration and the true yaw acceleration. Therefore it needs to be calibrated so the computer can correctly transform the measured value into the true value.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:23 AM   #39
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i have a 325iT and i have the same problem.
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Old 02-28-2009, 02:28 PM   #40
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never thought i get so aggravated over a youtube video this ***** needs a role model.
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