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Old 01-12-2017, 03:52 AM   #1
Pushrod
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My Ride: 2001 BMW 325i
Unique misfire issue

Hello everyone new to the form here and I posted an introduction in the new member introduction section of this form already. I just purchased a few months ago 2001 BMW 325I E46. I got the car for $2100 with 150,000 on the clock. It's in really good condition for the price that I got it for and for the most part is mechanically sound. Although I have a misfire issue that's bugging me. I have been religiously reading this form and others every day for the past few months trying to figure out a direction to go with this issue. I've already done all of the first "go to" things when a misfire issue happens. The very first thing I did to this car when I got it was a full tuneup and oil changes which included new OEM NGK spark plugs and OEM boots. I ran a can of seafoam to one tank of gas three times already which cleaned it up a lot. I have a intermittent misfire code P1351 that never goes to full status. It will pop up in pending status and disappear as quickly as it came. This happens about once a week maybe two times a week. The code pops up pending and then goes away. The car doesn't idle rough it doesn't run bad or shows any signs of an actual misfire. I've swapped coils around and this particular code keeps popping up. I'm wondering if it could be an engine problem like a sticky valve or something. I have not done a compression test yet. The search button has been my best friend for pretty much everything that I've done to this car already and I wouldn't make a post like this if I didn't absolutely have to. Does anyone have any ideas for me?



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Old 01-12-2017, 08:31 AM   #2
Dogthebountyhunter
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I changed my plugs 2 weeks ago and replaced a few boots that I ripped when taking them out. I kept getting misfire for cylinder 2 that didn't move when I swapped coils. I couldn't figure out what was causing it so I tighten all plugs boots etc. turns out if there is a misfire with fuel cutoff the computer will cut fuel until you delete the code. I let it run for a while and deleted all misfire codes that were popping up. If I were you I would double check your work and let it run for about an hour. Delete any misfire codes that pop up and hopefully it will sort itself out. I'm guessing that getting rid of the old plugs will cause the computer to have to re learn and adjust itself. Hopefully a more experienced fanatic can shed some light. This was deffinatly the case with my misfire I hope your is as simple.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:21 AM   #3
markusmarkus
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Dog, please do not hijack another person's thread. Start your own thread.

OP, is the fuel pump original? The fuel pump lasts about 5000 hours so the mileage isn't pertinent. A failing fuel pump can induce misfires when the fuel pressure isn't up to 50psi. The first step is to check the pressure. There's a test valve on the fuel rail. Item #2 in the link is the test valve cap:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_0900

The pressure needs to be at least 50psi at all engine speeds.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:22 AM   #4
jfoj
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If you do not have the OBDFusion App, you need it.

The OBDFusion App and VeePeak interface from Amazon, all for under $30.

Android requires this interface - https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...peak+bluetooth

iProducts requires this interface - https://www.amazon.com/Veepeak-Scann...s=veepeak+wifi

Then you can gather the PROPER information and Log as needed.

Need Freeze Frame and Fuel Trim data at a minimum.

You also need to read this at least 3 times: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:32 AM   #5
Pushrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markusmarkus View Post
Dog, please do not hijack another person's thread. Start your own thread.

OP, is the fuel pump original? The fuel pump lasts about 5000 hours so the mileage isn't pertinent. A failing fuel pump can induce misfires when the fuel pressure isn't up to 50psi. The first step is to check the pressure. There's a test valve on the fuel rail. Item #2 in the link is the test valve cap:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_0900

The pressure needs to be at least 50psi at all engine speeds.

I'm not sure if the fuel pump has been replaced or not. Since I dont know the history on it, I will just go ahead and replace it. Is there a specific brand I should get or should I go to the stealer?


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Old 01-12-2017, 09:34 AM   #6
Pushrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
If you do not have the OBDFusion App, you need it.



The OBDFusion App and VeePeak interface from Amazon, all for under $30.



Android requires this interface - https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...peak+bluetooth



iProducts requires this interface - https://www.amazon.com/Veepeak-Scann...s=veepeak+wifi



Then you can gather the PROPER information and Log as needed.



Need Freeze Frame and Fuel Trim data at a minimum.



You also need to read this at least 3 times: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616


I will get the obdfusion app and veepeak. And I will look into everything you mentioned. I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me.


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Old 01-12-2017, 11:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushrod View Post
I'm not sure if the fuel pump has been replaced or not. Since I dont know the history on it, I will just go ahead and replace it. Is there a specific brand I should get or should I go to the stealer?
You want the OEM brand, Siemens/VDO, as shown here.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...em-16146766942
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:24 AM   #8
jfoj
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You will also need 1 small worm drive hose clamp to replace the original clamp (if still installed) that you will have to cut off.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:27 AM   #9
Poolman
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One of the things that helped my ride , was to unhook all of the electric connectors for sensors and connectors going to the engine control module ,,then spray everything down with Deoxite. This cleans all the connectors and ensures connections
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:11 PM   #10
1.8TT0ny
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P1351.....misfire cylinder 5, with fuel cut off.

No, don't replace the fuel pump.

WTF, why would someone suggest replacing the fuel pump. IF there is a problem with the fuel pump, it would affect EVERY cylinder.....not just one. I mean really..........Is the fuel pump sitting there, working perfectly until the #5 cylinder is about to fire and then says to itself, "Oh ****! Here comes #5......I better turn off pressure so it misfires". No.

When "WITH FUEL CUT OFF" happens with any misfire code, it means the DME is INTENTIONALLY TURNING OFF POWER TO A FUEL INJECTOR so that gas is not wasted, the atmosphere is not polluted, a hazardous fire condition is minimized, the spark plug doesn't get "flooded", raw fuel wont wash away oil from the oil control ring resulting in lower compression, blah, blah, blah.

But, if you got 500 bucks laying around getting in your way and you need to get rid of it as soon as possible, ECS Tuning sells BMW fuel pumps online for $500.....might as well buy one before doing any thing else first. Better to waste $500 on something not needed than waste time doing the cheaper stuff first. Better yet, just replace the entire engine. Or do the smart thing, drop the car off at BMW, pay $350 for a diagnostic on the entire engine management system and know exactly what the problem is.

Basically, the DME is cutting off the fuel for cylinder #5 because the DME detects a misfire for that particular cylinder.

You've replaced the spark plug.


If the OP has swapped coils, that tells me he's already done 'the basics'. Most people that don't know **** about cars wouldn't think of swapping coils.

Anyhow, since all the basic stuff has been done, I would replace the valve stem seal. A bad valve stem seal CAN and WILL cause an intermittent misfire. Oil gets past the seal during an intake stroke, the engine misfires a few times causing the DME to detect a problem.......the exhaust stroke blasts the oil out and the plug begins to fire again.......which, as a result, means the code will consistently be 'pending' until the valve stem seal completely fails.

Replacing the intake valve stem seals is fairly easy.........and probably $497 LESS than a fuel pump.

If you want to replace the fuel pump cheaper than dealership prices, Pick N Pull salvage yard in Rocklin has 4 cars.
Sunrise Blvd Pick N Pull in Rancho has 7 cars.
Don't know how many Antelope P n P has.
The other P n P has 5 cars.

I was there last week looking for coolant system parts.

Last edited by 1.8TT0ny; 01-12-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:17 PM   #11
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.8TT0ny View Post
P1351.....misfire cylinder 5, with fuel cut off.

No, don't replace the fuel pump.

WTF, why would someone suggest replacing the fuel pump. IF there is a problem with the fuel pump, it would affect EVERY cylinder.....not just one. I mean really..........Is the fuel pump sitting there, working perfectly until the #5 cylinder is about to fire and then says to itself, "Oh ****! Here comes #5......I better turn off pressure so it misfires". No.

When "WITH FUEL CUT OFF" happens with any misfire code, it means the DME is INTENTIONALLY TURNING OFF POWER TO A FUEL INJECTOR so that gas is not wasted, the atmosphere is not polluted, a hazardous fire condition is minimized, the spark plug doesn't get "flooded", raw fuel wont wash away oil from the oil control ring resulting in lower compression, blah, blah, blah.

But, if you got 500 bucks laying around getting in your way and you need to get rid of it as soon as possible, ECS Tuning sells BMW fuel pumps online for $500.....might as well buy one before doing any thing else first. Better to waste $500 on something not needed than waste time doing the cheaper stuff first. Better yet, just replace the entire engine. Or do the smart thing, drop the car off at BMW, pay $350 for a diagnostic on the entire engine management system and know exactly what the problem is.

Basically, the DME is cutting off the fuel for cylinder #5 because the DME detects a misfire for that particular cylinder.

You've replaced the spark plug.


If the OP has swapped coils, that tells me he's already done 'the basics'. Most people that don't know **** about cars wouldn't think of swapping coils.

Anyhow, since all the basic stuff has been done, I would replace the valve stem seal. A bad valve stem seal CAN and WILL cause an intermittent misfire. Oil gets past the seal during an intake stroke, the engine misfires a few times causing the DME to detect a problem.......the exhaust stroke blasts the oil out and the plug begins to fire again.......which, as a result, means the code will consistently be 'pending' until the valve stem seal completely fails.

Replacing the intake valve stem seals is fairly easy.........and probably $497 LESS than a fuel pump.
Forget the valve stems seals, not sure where you are getting a $497 fuel pump???

A Siemens/VDO fuel pump and sending unit is about $142 on your doorstep.

Every E46 needs a replacement fuel pump at this point, not sure this is the OP problem, but it would be a wise item to put on the short list.

Assuming there is not a burned exhaust valve, most of the start up problems are vacuum leak related, few coil and spark plug problems for only start up misfiring.

Coils and plugs will cause misfire problems under heavier load long before cold start.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:33 PM   #12
Pushrod
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I just ordered the veepeak wifi and got the obdfusion app. The car dosent idle rough or run like it has a misfire in any way at all. It runs like a top.


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Old 01-12-2017, 02:56 PM   #13
jfoj
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Just wait until you have a problem. You will be glad you have a tool that can view data.

Even if the engine is running fine, monitoring Fuel Trim values will tell you if there is an underlying problem. Lack of a light or a well running engine is no indicator that everything is fine!
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:05 PM   #14
willysalazar1
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Could someone point me to a valve steam seal replacement DIY I've done everything to fix P1351 error without luck


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Old 01-12-2017, 08:24 PM   #15
jfoj
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I would not be banking on valve seals solving a misfire problem, I would put money on a burned exhaust valve long before I would buy into the valve seals being a problem.

You need to exhaust other avenues before you worry about valve seals.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:52 PM   #16
BaliDawg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.8TT0ny View Post
Pick N Pull salvage yard in Rocklin has 4 cars.
Sunrise Blvd Pick N Pull in Rancho has 7 cars.
Don't know how many Antelope P n P has.
The other P n P has 5 cars.
OP is right near Bavarian Auto Recycling (bmrparts.com) in case he needs any used parts.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:01 PM   #17
Pushrod
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Unique misfire issue

Burnt exhaust valve sounds like something that could be my problem because the guy I bought the car from did say he was chasing down a lean code a few months back. I had to get the car smogged, so I did it today. I went and did it while the code was away. The car goes a while before the pending code pops up, only once maybe 2 times a week. Now that she passed the smog check, I can play with it and not feel in a hurry to get it smogged.


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Last edited by Pushrod; 01-12-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:09 PM   #18
jfoj
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Burned exhaust value will not cause Lean codes typically.

If you have Lean codes, this should not be so hard to sort out.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:50 PM   #19
Pushrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushrod View Post
Burnt exhaust valve sounds like something that could be my problem because the guy I bought the car from did say he was chasing down a lean code a few months back. I had to get the car smogged, so I did it today. I went and did it while the code was away. The car goes a while before the pending code pops up, only once maybe 2 times a week. Now that she passed the smog check, I can play with it and not feel in a hurry to get it smogged.


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That's correct but a lean condition can eventually cause a burnt exhaust valve


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Old 01-12-2017, 11:51 PM   #20
Pushrod
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Burned exhaust value will not cause Lean codes typically.



If you have Lean codes, this should not be so hard to sort out.


The car has absolutely no other codes at all. Just the p1351


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