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Welcome to Spec E46!

17K views 51 replies 20 participants last post by  unevolved 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone! My name is Jason Tower and I'm the originator of Spec E46 which is poised to be one of the premier road racing series in the country. Tim Jones was kind enough to give us a dedicated spot on E46Fanatics which is the ideal place for racers and E46 lovers to get together and share knowledge, discuss the rules, publicize their car builds, do a little bench racing, and make Spec E46 the best series it can be. As with most things it's ultimately about the people and I think we're off to a great start.

More information on Spec E46 can be found on the website below and we invite you to join the Facebook group as well. Thanks for visiting!

Website http://spece46.com
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/spece46
 
#6 · (Edited)
Hi Jason,

Way to take the initiative and start up a new spec series!

I think you'll really miss out on a lot of potential competitors, though, if you don't include the 325s. There are more donor cars out there and they can be purchased for less, and affordability is key here. Any E46 with a manual gearbox is a pretty rare bird, and those who own them may not want to hack them up into race cars. The buyer demographics changed a lot from E36 to E46...fewer hard-core enthusiasts, and fewer manuals ordered. It's both a sign of the times (more traffic, etc. ) and the fact that the E46 got a little larger, quieter and more luxurious, catering to a slightly different buyer. People will convert autos to manuals, yes, but it's an extra step that impacts affordability.

So include 325s with essentially the same rules set, but: a) have a throttle plate restrictor a la spec Miata to bring down a 330's power slightly; b) allow headers and maybe shorter gears/lower weight on the 325s for parity, where the 330s would have to retain stock manifolds; or c) just run two classes in the race, 325 and 330.

I like "c" the best...very easy to implement. More traffic/passing when the 330s catch the 325s, great bench racing/trash talk when a hot 325 driver reels in a 330. This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it :)D), but consider what I've said. I really want you to succeed!

I just saw e46techtuner's post, and we'd want to include 328s somehow too, but my main point is increasing the pool of cars to make the series really fly.
 
#7 · (Edited)
The differences between 325 and 330 are just the suspension, brakes and engine.

If I was building a new race car, I'd replace/rebuild all those parts anyways. You won't be competitive with 100,000 mile suspension/engine components, the only real issue is the brake calipers, they probably won't need replacing (unless they are rusted out) but the 330 brakes are an awesome upgrade anyways, so just go for it!

Also, changing between auto and manual is pretty easy (if you are capable of building a race car) and the nice thing is that the 5 speed ZF didn't change between e36 and e46 so there are many of them out there. 6 speed with the spec diff probably won't be required (and 6 speed is heavier) so I'd stick with a 5 speed. You will probably be putting in an aftermarket clutch, so you'd need to take the tranny off anyways. Change a couple of pedals and add a few lines and presto, its a manual.


I love this idea (as I have quite a few e46s sitting at the shop that could become a spec e46 in a heart beat) but sadly it is soo far that I doubt my team will be competing. (sometimes it sucks to live in Canada)
 
#11 ·
Perhaps, but then you run the risk of losing the guy who's got a 325 and wants to go racing with minimal investment. He may not be at the pointy end of the grid, but he wants to go out and mix it up wheel-to-wheel, and have some fun without breaking the bank. The key is filling up the grid.
 
#8 ·
Going to be interesting to see how popular this gets, racing series are only badass if you've got people to race.

One question I have looking at the rules is whether or not you can race a 325i with a M54B30 swapped in.
 
#9 ·
The 944 spec class is a good success story, and it reinforces the point of using more widely available, less expensive cars...the 944 and 924S, using the sohc normally aspirated 2.5-liter...and excludes 944S, 944S2 and 944 Turbo.

It is great racing! Tim Comeau is the guy who popularized 944 Spec here on the Left Coast; he runs a shop down in San Diego. If you want to talk to him about building and growing a spec series, PM me and I'll put you in touch.
 
#14 ·
Some interesting points about the 325's, but we're trying to learn from history here. Jason and I are both ex SpecE30 racers and have been around club racing for over a decade. Multi-car Spec classing simply doesn't work, Spec Miata is a great example of this. The cars just aren't even, there's "a car to have" and those who don't have it can still race, but not competitively, so why bother? That's bad for the class and wastes a lot of people's time and money. Bottom line is that there are plenty of 330 donors out there, especially if you swap an automatic which someone already mentioned is not very difficult, especially if you're already building a race car.

Are there a lot of guys with 323's and 325's already? Absolutely... but how many people take their street car and pick a class to race in because of it? Very few. None who know what they are doing. You generally pick a class first, and then build or buy a car for it. The donor is $3-5k out of the $20-30k budget to race in a class like this, it's really not aimed at people currently driving E46 330's. It's aimed at people excited for a new form of Spec racing, with high levels of competition, and a more serious racecar than allow in SE30 and SE36 and Spec3.

We're excited to see how things go, and hopefully the website is addressing most of these questions! There are already 5-6 people on the east coast building cars and shopping for donors, including Bimmerworld. We'll have to see how many get racing in the next year!

- Evan
 
#15 · (Edited)
I understand where you're coming from with the standardization, I really do. I'm sorry I keep playing devil's advocate.

That being said, I don't think you should write off the Spec Miata style of standardization. Yeah, there's a winning, specified "max performance" combination of chassis and parts, but all the deviation is toward the slower side. Yes, that gives you a select few big spenders competing for the podium, but you'll always have that. Hell, SM doesn't allow tuned ECUs, so Miata guys will dyno a dozen stock ECUs, and sell the one that gives 1 or 2 more HP for hundreds of dollars. There's that sort of competition anywhere. But know what Spec Miata has that most classes don't (at least in Central Texas)? HUGE fields. 30+ cars on race weekends. The vast majority of those guys know they're not competing for the podium, but because they're in a massive field of similar cars, it's fun as ****. That's all they want to do, is have a great time racing.

Again, not attacking you. Just offering another perspective. From your position as the governing body, you're going to draw the same entry fee from a 330 as a 325 as a 323, so why not let them race? It's not like there's a super-slow 4cyl variant that's going to be a rolling chicane.

tl;dr Bigger fields, better racing.
 
#18 ·
Again, not attacking you. Just offering another perspective. From your position as the governing body, you're going to draw the same entry fee from a 330 as a 325 as a 323, so why not let them race? It's not like there's a super-slow 4cyl variant that's going to be a rolling chicane.
Not taken offensively at all! We appreciate the conversation and thoughts. Additionally - there's nothing in this for us except a new class to race in. NASA/BMWCCA/SCCA are sanctioning bodies who charge the entry fees, we'll just be series directors (unpaid, volunteer, crap gig really) and the guys trying to make it go.
 
#17 ·
The main argument is to keep the class truly competitive, this is a higher level of Spec racing. Spec E30 and Spec Miata are great classes, and if people want to save money and build a non-competitive car, those are actually the places to go. We're not out to detract from those existing classes - they draw great fields and people with $7-10k cars can run mid pack or better if they can drive.

For what it's worth, we've already put in the rules that if you want to use a 325 donor car, go for it. You'll need to convert everything required to make it fits the rules, which is likely not worth your time and money. An E46 Tub is an E46 Tub, we're not trying to stop anyone from going that route if they so choose.

The real question is this - If you were going to race your car in this class, you're looking at $20,000 in parts. Is selling your street car and buying a beat 330i donor really a big deal on top of that? Financially it's actually smarter than starting with what you have, assuming your 325 is a nice car. The street car beginning it's life as a race car is a very small percentage of the cost and effort going into building a real race car.
 
#25 · (Edited)
appreciate your feedback and enthusiasm (seriously i do) but i can tell you absolutely positively without question that the 330-only aspect of spec e46 will not be changing any time soon. we anticipated this and addressed it on the faq section of the website. hope that doesn't sound rude, but this particular issue is a non-starter.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Thanks for the civilized response. I appreciate your position, and as this is a discussion forum, I'm just offering my take. I just want your fields to be big enough for everyone to have a great experience...racing in a class with only a couple of other guys can suck for both the drivers and the spectators.
 
#29 ·
I love the concept, but really question whether this rule set will create a compelling racing class... I think one of the reasons spec racing is attractive is that it's cheap, it's not an arms race, but a lot of your rules are promoting significant costs... The things you've left open will be the same things that competitors would be tuning in non-spec classes with an E46, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't prefer to run a series with more vehicle diversity if they're going to have to test and tune all that stuff for each track anyway. I'll discuss some of the issues I see individually:

- LSDs - Any LSD for the E46 is expensive, but you've left that completely open, so you're essentially telling competitors to go buy a $3k+ OS Giken, and then to spend a whole bunch of time and money testing various ramp angles and clutch disc setups. If a spec suspension is set up well, you probably don't even need an LSD at all, provided everyone in the field is running the same thing. Also, I think a 3.46 is a little aggressive for an M54 motor, I see a combination of a LOT of shifting required, and a lot of dead motors. I'd recommend either working with a manufacturer like Performance Gearing, Diffsonline, Wavetrac, or OS Giken to determine a spec LSD package with a discount, or removing the LSD requirement, and either way specing a 3.23 as the most aggressive gearing. Do some testing with your preferred suspension and swaybar setup to determine whether you *really* need the LSD or not.

- Suspension - MCS singles with 750/850 springs are a nice setup for sure, but very expensive. Wouldn't a set of H&R race springs and Bilstein sports be just as fun, with a much lower price point? (though this may make the non-LSD setup less workable) The other problem with single adjustables is that the compression or rebound might not be right on, requiring revalving and testing for every track. (what do you think race teams did before adjustable shocks?) Also, what happens when MCS goes out of business because they're a small specialty shop run by just a couple of guys, rather than a major manufacturer? I'd recommend H&R Race / Bilstein sport with stock valving, or a double adjustable Koni yellow setup, or at the very least specifying that the stock valving on the MCSs can't be modified.

- Camber plates - Leaving camber plates so wide open *will* allow some *very* creative & expensive custom fabricated setups. I'd be running 5* of camber and 9* of caster under these rules. I'd recommend some sort of fixed camber plates and slotting only allowed to achieve a spec camber amount.

- Swaybars - they're open? Really? You're essentially requiring the front runners to custom fabricate and test a million permutations of two different swaybars with various types of control arm mounts. (I've done this, on a more limited basis, just for autocross) I'd recommend the 30mm H&R M3 front bar, and no rear bar if you're going to get rid of the LSD allowance, or H&R front and rear, and specify the bar setting either way, or allow adjustment between just the stock settings on those bars, if you want to allow for some tweaking.

I apologize if this sounds like a long list of bitching, as someone with experience competing in an E46 and writing the rules for SCCA Solo, I understand how difficult it can be to clearly define what you want to do, and make sure that the rules you write will get you where you want to be. I hope the series goes well, and I hope some day I'll have the kind of money required to come play. :)
 
#33 ·
I love the concept, but really question whether this rule set will create a compelling racing class... I think one of the reasons spec racing is attractive is that it's cheap, it's not an arms race, but a lot of your rules are promoting significant costs... The things you've left open will be the same things that competitors would be tuning in non-spec classes with an E46, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't prefer to run a series with more vehicle diversity if they're going to have to test and tune all that stuff for each track anyway. I'll discuss some of the issues I see individually:
Thanks for taking the time. We had 3 cars order parts today from us, and we aren't the sole supplier of anything except the exhaust. Others are being planned. So far the initial response is tremendous. The thing is, there is a market for spec racing in cars that AREN'T diverse, and feel like real racecars - that is the market we worked to hit.

- LSDs - Any LSD for the E46 is expensive, but you've left that completely open, so you're essentially telling competitors to go buy a $3k+ OS Giken, and then to spend a whole bunch of time and money testing various ramp angles and clutch disc setups. If a spec suspension is set up well, you probably don't even need an LSD at all, provided everyone in the field is running the same thing. Also, I think a 3.46 is a little aggressive for an M54 motor, I see a combination of a LOT of shifting required, and a lot of dead motors. I'd recommend either working with a manufacturer like Performance Gearing, Diffsonline, Wavetrac, or OS Giken to determine a spec LSD package with a discount, or removing the LSD requirement, and either way specing a 3.23 as the most aggressive gearing. Do some testing with your preferred suspension and swaybar setup to determine whether you *really* need the LSD or not.
Not really NEEDED, but neither is anything outside the safety arena of the car. But it certainly makes the car faster and more fun, and is a big bang for the buck on dollars spent. And since we don't intend to open up and inspect diffs at the track, we left the rules fairly open here - that way there is no illusion of cost control like some other spec classes, which clearly use fast parts. And everyone doing this gets the benefits of our testing and setup work and will get the right parts. If someone is really spending all that money and time testing parts for Spec E46, I think we will all be both flattered and baffled. But I can also say that outside of pro racing there doesn't seem to be a lot of actual testing on these things to the level that will give anything other than a placebo result. I think we made the right decision here.

- Suspension - MCS singles with 750/850 springs are a nice setup for sure, but very expensive. Wouldn't a set of H&R race springs and Bilstein sports be just as fun, with a much lower price point? (though this may make the non-LSD setup less workable) The other problem with single adjustables is that the compression or rebound might not be right on, requiring revalving and testing for every track. (what do you think race teams did before adjustable shocks?) Also, what happens when MCS goes out of business because they're a small specialty shop run by just a couple of guys, rather than a major manufacturer? I'd recommend H&R Race / Bilstein sport with stock valving, or a double adjustable Koni yellow setup, or at the very least specifying that the stock valving on the MCSs can't be modified.
The beauty of going with the MCS was to use a product that was durable, that didn't need to be rebuilt or repurchased to truly stay fresh when combined with a real track spring rate. You can always get better and I prefer 3-Ways, but that is out of the scope of the class. There is plenty of massaging going on in other classes (on the cheap parts too), and again, we aren't going to be taking shocks apart at the track - instead we prefer to spec the right part so all this massaging has less benefit. We have discussed with MCS and we feel confident with the choice.

Additionally, we discussed cheaper, and that is not the intent of the class. It is cost contained, but not "cheap". However, you can buy all the parts to build a winner for $15k, and $20k gets you a topped out car - build lists coming, so we did hit our cost mark. We decided we all like close, competitive racing with some cost containment - not necessarily driving crappy cars so they can be closely competitive.

- Camber plates - Leaving camber plates so wide open *will* allow some *very* creative & expensive custom fabricated setups. I'd be running 5* of camber and 9* of caster under these rules. I'd recommend some sort of fixed camber plates and slotting only allowed to achieve a spec camber amount.
With the spring rates speced and the likely tire choices, not too many people would follow your creative setup I suspect. Again, if we put the right parts on the car, there is no reason to get fancy in the areas we intentionally left open for some freedom of supplier.

- Swaybars - they're open? Really? You're essentially requiring the front runners to custom fabricate and test a million permutations of two different swaybars with various types of control arm mounts. (I've done this, on a more limited basis, just for autocross) I'd recommend the 30mm H&R M3 front bar, and no rear bar if you're going to get rid of the LSD allowance, or H&R front and rear, and specify the bar setting either way, or allow adjustment between just the stock settings on those bars, if you want to allow for some tweaking.
Again, flattered. We tried to spec the important stuff and leave some stuff open. There is no magic bullet in either the parts we spec, or chose not to spec, but clearly anyone can rub on something as much as they would like. You are allowed to choose what you want to run, and if there is some magic setup that works better than what we have found in running these cars for 10 years, we will make the part for the job so everyone can enjoy it. I have my preferences and we are in the process of putting them on a list.

I love the feedback - keep it coming. We will look at it all, but I can also tell you a vast majority has already been considered. I helped out on the rules here and have done Spec E30 and BMW Club rules in the past with successful results. I am aware of the two sides to many of the concerns from seeing them on a daily basis for many years. At the end of the day, Spec E46 won't be right for everyone, but it is a durable, fast car, with as few loopholes as possible to hide in, and hopefully without the hidden costs of many of the spec cars.

James
 
#30 ·
Also, I don't think you'll be happy with the "stock E36" (which could mean a few different parts) exhaust manifold on the M54, I've actually used that on my car and it totally killed the low end power. I didn't tune for that, so maybe that totally solves it, but I'd think there are better options like the bimmerbrakes setup, or one of the E36 "shorty" options mated to a custom bimmerworld downpipe and 3" exhaust.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I think murph brings up some good points. Your spec series leaves a TON of money on the table for development costs and basically allowing the guys with the biggest pockets to get on the podium. Part of the reason Spec Miata is so popular is the lack of engineering required to get fast. You call Mazda and say, "I need Spec Miata suspension plz" and you get your dampers, springs, and bars. You don't have to buy a copy of Milliken and Milliken to understand what's going on.
 
#34 ·
Your spec series leaves a TON of money on the table for development costs and basically allowing the guys with the biggest pockets to get on the podium. Part of the reason Spec Miata is so popular is the lack of engineering required to get fast.
I think that's a stretch. Unfortunately this is racing, the guys with the biggest pockets are always going to find ways to make that work for them, and the guys without will bend rules quietly without anyone noticing to keep up. Spec Miata isn't a cheap class, especially if you're trying to get on the podium. Front runners in Spec Miata are spending more on motors than this entire SE46 suspension, diff, and donor car will cost. If we can keep power wars from being an issue and allowing outrageous spending on motor rebuilds, we'll have done a lot to level the field where SM and SE30 have not, and let people put that money into more important things than 5 hp worth of decked heads and overbore blocks.
 
#35 ·
What I think is great about using motors with decent power and a chassis with decent weight is that spending $10k to chase 3hp won't be nearly as worthwhile as in spec miata.

The downside is the M54 is kinda fragile, and I hope they don't start grenading left and right...


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
 
#36 ·
I just wanna see this get big. I would love to do this someday, but not if I'd be the only car in my region.

Are there any provisions/encouragements to upgrade cooling systems? I saw "stock size" in the rules, does that mean oversized aluminum radiators are disallowed?
 
#37 ·
Its tough where you are to create momentum for a racing class. If something is going to get big, it will be a NASA class. There is interest from a couple of guys there.

Stock size - meaning something that fits properly in the stock location. A bigger radiator rarely does much - efficiency doesn't get much better as the core gets thicker and you can actually lose some. Since you can't go taller or wider (both rule and physical constraints), what you need is a more efficient core.
 
#40 ·
From the rules:

5.7. The roll cage must be of the standard six point design, or a 6+2 design with an additional
two bars and associated chassis attachment points added for foot protection, provided that
the foot protection bars do not go through the front firewall. No additional tabs or
attachment points are permitted.
 
#43 ·
Just show up

might I chime in here.
I helped start CMC2 on the west cost. I have raced with the west coast SE30 guys and spec Miata. Everyone is faced with the same criticism about the initial rules. Jason and James have done everything right to get spec E46 off the ground, or started, or the ball rolling, and really nothing more. just get it going. spec Miata and SE30 are not where they started, they have evolved. at the end of the day these guys are faced with the problem that not everyone will be happy in the beginning, but I think you will be racing your car wink wink
I am testing my spec 330 e46 on the 29th (provided parts show up cough cough :p) because if there is a gripe about it, it will be proven on the race track with a car. I would be willing to bet that after the all the dust is settled with the 330 those guys would be more than willing to look at everything else that is proposed, just one thing at a time at the moment.
I will say this when we started CMC2 we didn't know if it was a good idea. we just showed up and looked at the data. the worse case was that we had fun on the track. BUT getting a series off the ground is a lot like aligning stars. so for now lets work with what they have done so far. lets take our cars to the track and race the hell the of them because that is awesome.
pure performance is going to build a spec E46. It is only a matter of time before midnight oil gets on board. this is a good idea we are prepared to help solve these issue having the best time ever (trying to sound like a teenage girl) on the track (and drink a few adult beverages afterward and yell at each other) so if anyone has concerns come to the track and help us brake a few things because this is happening on the west coast.
thanks for listening

peter
Ps I really need those parts
 
#44 ·
From the responses here it seems like the intent is specifically to *not* be as "spec" as spec E30 or spec Miata. I would imagine the thought process is that if you want "cheap", "identical" racing, there are already two very good options for that, and that maybe this can be a next step between that and more formula-based or professional series.

I'm not sure I would quite call this spec racing, just due to the association with much more highly determined "spec" series, but I can certainly appreciate the market positioning, that hopefully these cars feel a little more like what someone would *want* to build if they had free reign, while maintaining close competition among very similar cars.

I sit on the Street Touring Advisory Committee for SCCA Solo, (a category which allows limited street-friendly mods like suspension and bolt-on power stuff) and I can appreciate the balancing act in designing a ruleset - you want to make them reasonable to implement, while limiting the effect that pushing the rules to the limit will have, and making it a fun place to compete.

I've also competed in my E46s (sport, then ZHP) for the past 8 years, and spent a lot more than $20k building custom swaybar mounts, custom shock and camber plate setups, custom seat mounts, swapped headlights, custom header/exhaust setups, and rebuilding my diff with different ramping and clutch settings. For a $5 acrylic trophy for driving around cones in a parking lot.

I've used two sets of shocks, three front and two rear swaybars, three sets of wheels, tested tires, camber, caster, ride height, bar config, springs, and diff settings, and ultimately even changed cars. For a $5 acrylic trophy for driving around cones in a parking lot.

And I'm *not* one of the really crazy ones, and I don't know ahead of time what the track would be. (yes, I have different setups for tighter or more open courses, and for low-grip situations)

So a lot of the rulesmaking discussions we have within the STAC are about "if I were totally crazy, what would I do with this allowance?", and then deciding whether that's what we want done in our category, because we know that *someone* *will* go there. And a lot of the time the question is about whether someone going there (whether competitively successful or not) is going to convince others that they have to do that to compete, and whether that will discourage participation more than it helps ease of implementation. It's easier for you with a set vehicle, (we manage a ruleset for a couple hundred cars across six classes) but I think a lot of the issues impacting rulesmaking are still the same - what level of crazy is going to impact the desire of your target market to spend their racing budget on that class, rather than something else?

Will it be:
- The guy with a second set of coilovers he swaps out for wet use, or a bumpy track?
- The guy with a second diff he swaps out to optimize for different levels of desired power-on oversteer/push?
- The guy running a standalone ECU and bringing his own 110 octane racing gas that costs $30 a gallon?
- The guy running a custom arm-mounted swaybar front & rear?
- The guy testing 5* of camber vs. 10* of caster vs. gigantic bars, all with custom parts?

I'm not a road racer, just an autocrosser and karter, and so maybe these things are all further beyond the diminishing returns curve in road racing than they are in autocross, where national championships are won and lost by a tenth of a second. Maybe the speed & distance magnify the driver disparities enough not to matter? My apologies for wasting bandwidth if these are not things that really matter in competitive road racing, just trying to poke holes where they may be helpful to the long term health of the series.

Oh, and just to reiterate, the biggest one that concerns me is using the 330, and using it with short gearing. These motors just don't like to rev, and it seems like throwing a 3.46 at them without encouraging supporting mods (like dampers at the very least) is asking for trouble, and they're not exactly E30 or Miata motors in terms of replacement cost... If I were building this class, I might consider building it around the E36 non-M instead. (cheaper to buy, similar power/weight, more durable, cheaper motors that are easier to tune, cheaper diffs)
 
#45 ·
I've been looking at the rules and some of the items mentioned here don't seem to apply:

Will it be:
- The guy with a second set of coilovers he swaps out for wet use, or a bumpy track? Given the spec shocks and springs I don't see this as happening. The shocks are SA so they may be adjusted, but why replace?
- The guy with a second diff he swaps out to optimize for different levels of desired power-on oversteer/push? This appears to be a possibility. I can see some guys with a spare diff or two.
- The guy running a standalone ECU and bringing his own 110 octane racing gas that costs $30 a gallon? I thought I read that the ECU was going to be locked, and gas was limited to 93 octane pump.
- The guy running a custom arm-mounted swaybar front & rear? Easily fixed with a rule mod requiring stock sway bar mounting and pickup points.
- The guy testing 5* of camber vs. 10* of caster vs. gigantic bars, all with custom parts? Camber plates seemed to be limited to stock mounting locations with adjustment to allow for mounting hardware and adjustments. Again, not likely and probably subject to the judgement of the scrutineer.
 
#46 · (Edited)
I've been looking at the rules and some of the items mentioned here don't seem to apply:

Will it be:
- The guy with a second set of coilovers he swaps out for wet use, or a bumpy track? Given the spec shocks and springs I don't see this as happening. The shocks are SA so they may be adjusted, but why replace?
They're single adjustable, and I don't see anything on the BW website indicating whether both compression and rebound are adjusted with a single knob. Since they're upgradable to DA, I'll assume it's only rebound, like most SA shocks. Would you want to run the same compresssion regardless of the track or conditions? I wouldn't.

- The guy running a standalone ECU and bringing his own 110 octane racing gas that costs $30 a gallon? I thought I read that the ECU was going to be locked, and gas was limited to 93 octane pump.
Can you quote that section of the rules? I saw this:
A custom ECU tune may be specified in order to ensure compliance and maximize
power/reliability. [This will be evaluated further once prototype cars are built.]
ok, so I don't think there's an allowance for standalone ECUs, but does that mean stock ECU tune? How do you check that for compliance? *which* stock ECU tune? Who can read/confirm the tune? (I have to send my ECU to florida when I want it tuned by AA, tuning an M54 seems to be a bit of a black art) Are we really going to open up the exhaust without changing the tune? I can verify that the header spec'd will definitely suck on a stock ECU, I know because I've tried it. (though I'd be surprised if tuning made it much better)

Where in the rules is fuel octane limited? How do you actually police 93 octane? (we're struggling a lot with similar limits in SCCA Solo, I can tell you it's a thorny issue)

- The guy running a custom arm-mounted swaybar front & rear? Easily fixed with a rule mod requiring stock sway bar mounting and pickup points.
I agree, I think that might be wise, but you'll still have folks buying three different bars and testing them at different settings...

- The guy testing 5* of camber vs. 10* of caster vs. gigantic bars, all with custom parts? Camber plates seemed to be limited to stock mounting locations with adjustment to allow for mounting hardware and adjustments. Again, not likely and probably subject to the judgement of the scrutineer.
Wait, so if I show up to competition, having spent $2,000 building custom parts that perfectly fit the letter of the rules, but give me an advantage, you'll have someone arbitrarily determining I'm illegal, without changing the rules??? WTF???

That's a great way to scare people away from wanting to compete there, or to encourage corruption. Here's the rule:

Adjustable or fixed camber/caster plates are permitted. They must be installed in the
location intended by the manufacturer, per their instructions. The three front strut
mounting holes may be slotted laterally, only to enable more range of camber adjustment.
The strut tower center hole may be notched/trimmed, but only as necessary to enable
clearance for installation of the tightening hardware (i.e. nuts, bolts, washers) originally
supplied with the camber plates.
I can absolutely build a camber plate that bolts to the factory location and locates the strut way up under the strut tower somewhere to give me any geometry I desire. Since I'm the "manufacturer", the plate is being used exactly as designed, per my own instructions.

I'm still not sure why you'd need to notch the center hole to clear the hardware, but hey, one more place I could get mighty creative if I didn't want to do the spacing & relocation dance.

Since you're already speccing the car, I'd recommend just specifying a list of approved camber plates, just list anything sold by BW, Turner, TCK, and Vorshlag, and allow competitors to request others. Easy to understand, easy to police.
 
#47 ·
Guys, first rule of thumb is, if it doesn't say you can do it in the rules explicitly, you don't do it. You don't assume anything. All of these hypothetical questions are answered if you follow that rule.

If there is really unclarity, you raise that and gets clarified BEFORE you implement it.

This is infact a Spec series, calling it something else is just lack of sight. It has better components used, focuses on driver development as much as any other spec series. It on the other hand, has just enough adjustability to allow drivers to dial in their car.

At the end, I am very confident that this car is going to be much more fun to drive than any spec cars, and will be a blast series.
 
#48 ·
Guys, first rule of thumb is, if it doesn't say you can do it in the rules explicitly, you don't do it.
Since when have racers ever followed that? The guy with the fastest car is usually the guy who understands the rules better than the other guys and finds the loopholes. If you're not forcing rule changes, you're not trying hard enough to make the best car possible.

No one who wants to win is going to follow the "spirit of the rules."
 
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