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Old 03-04-2014, 12:50 PM   #81
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I call this "jumping ship" and that's exactly what I've done. I have never been promoted from within a company. If I want to take a next step, I switch companies.

It's a real PITA to convince your current employer to pay you more money for the same work. It's much easier to convince someone else.
If it's more work and more responsibility, I don't see why an employer shouldn't pay an associate more. At that point, it makes sense to jump ship.

I'm coming up the learning curve and list of responsibilities now where a promotion should be fairly close. Companies really get their money's worth + some out of engineers in my experience.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:58 PM   #82
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If it's more work and more responsibility, I don't see why an employer shouldn't pay an associate more. At that point, it makes sense to jump ship.

I'm coming up the learning curve and list of responsibilities now where a promotion should be fairly close. Companies really get their money's worth + some out of engineers in my experience.
The issue a lot of times comes to slot availability. Unless someone leaves or the company grows enough to generate a new position, there isn't a lot of position advancement I've found.

For example, the staff Engineers on my team won't ever become the team lead or a Senior engineer just by punching in time. If they went out and got their CCIE, then mayyybe. But our internal budgeting for my team only has a slot for 1 Senior and the rest are staff engineers. They can certify their way to a raise but I don't ever see them "replacing" me, if you will.

Competent Engineers rise quickly, but once you have north of 5-7 years in, the advancement track slows down a lot unless you want to get into management(which I never will).

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Old 03-04-2014, 12:58 PM   #83
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^ If only that's how it worked in real life. I've gotten promotions with normal 3% raise and feel that they were just used to keep me around in the hopes that I'd get a larger raise in the future. That never happened.

The company's job is to pay you as little as possible to do the most work. It's easier to show someone else your potential than the person already writing your checks as they are already getting that potential.

This is going off topic though...
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:02 PM   #84
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^ If only that's how it worked in real life. I've gotten promotions with normal 3% raise and feel that they were just used to keep me around in the hopes that I'd get a larger raise in the future. That never happened.

The company's job is to pay you as little as possible to do the most work. It's easier to show someone else your potential than the person already writing your checks as they are already getting that potential.

This is going off topic though...
x10.

The 3% raise is just a number to keep up with inflation I've found

We do get merit based raises, so if you kick ass you can get up to like 7% but I'm so happy where I am, and they pay me enough to keep me happy. A lot of it came down to home/work life balance, the fun stuff the company does (like a cruise next month), the overall work environment as well as the pay.

I took like a 5% raise to leave the 3rd largest Cable company in the US to come here, and I love the culture so much it *feels* like a 100% raise to me.

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Old 03-04-2014, 01:03 PM   #85
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^ If only that's how it worked in real life. I've gotten promotions with normal 3% raise and feel that they were just used to keep me around in the hopes that I'd get a larger raise in the future. That never happened.

The company's job is to pay you as little as possible to do the most work. It's easier to show someone else your potential than the person already writing your checks as they are already getting that potential.

This is going off topic though...
It's semi-related.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:22 PM   #86
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...

Competent Engineers rise quickly, but once you have north of 5-7 years in, the advancement track slows down a lot unless you want to get into management(which I never will).

At my company, management has realized that there has been a brain drain, and is putting forth high paying high tech jobs as an advancement alternative to management. That is the path I will be going down.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:26 PM   #87
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How does that work Mike?

For example, at my company we have corporate attorneys that take care of filing for patents and handle the process.

Do you work for a patent law office or on your own? Are your clients individuals/small companies or do you ever deal with large corporations?

And I take it, if an individual/company files with you, part of those legal fees include a commission to you?
i'm at a patent law firm that mostly handles mid to large size companies, including a company that makes a ton of medical devices. if i were to take on a client, i'd get a commission.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:11 PM   #88
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patent lawyers getting a commission?!! lmao! if there isn't a job that pays more for doing less it's patent lawyers. i'd kill myself if i had to go through life being that unoriginal and trying to make money off of other people's ingenuity. bloodsuckers.
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I always have to laugh when I see a thread described as "Not Work Safe." Is there anything on the OT forum that's really "work safe"? If I were your boss, I'd be mad if you spent any time on this forum at work at all. How is a picture of a naked girl any less work safe than, say, a picture of a matador getting gored in the *** by an angry bull? - VaderDave
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:58 PM   #89
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Easy there tiger... I'd rather them write out the whole 20-30 page patent application than me.

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Old 03-04-2014, 03:14 PM   #90
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Easy there tiger... I'd rather them write out the whole 20-30 page patent application than me.
for $600 an hour? twice what you bill at? scam!!!
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I always have to laugh when I see a thread described as "Not Work Safe." Is there anything on the OT forum that's really "work safe"? If I were your boss, I'd be mad if you spent any time on this forum at work at all. How is a picture of a naked girl any less work safe than, say, a picture of a matador getting gored in the *** by an angry bull? - VaderDave
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:14 PM   #91
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for $600 an hour? twice what you bill at? scam!!!
A person who understands science and technology enough to understand your cutting edge invention, who also understands law and how patent claims are evaluated and enforced justifies that billing rate. How is it a scam?

Why umad?
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:14 PM   #92
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for $600 an hour? twice what you bill at? scam!!!
The $600 an hour paid to them is worth far more in the long term to avoid IP infringement.

Sounds like someone wants to go to law school though...
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:31 PM   #93
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Sounds like someone doesn't understand the patent system... I'd happily pay someone that much so I didn't have to sort through that **** myself.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:43 PM   #94
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So things are getting far off topic now...so in an effort to push this back the right way here are the articles I promised.

Wikipedia has the best and easiest to read articles so here's some good reading material for the conduction system of the heart as well as cardiac ablation and treatment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...m_of_the_heart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catheter_ablation

Probably better to read that than for me to type it all up. Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:44 PM   #95
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So things are getting far off topic now...so in an effort to push this back the right way here are the articles I promised.

Wikipedia has the best and easiest to read articles so here's some good reading material for the conduction system of the heart as well as cardiac ablation and treatment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...m_of_the_heart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catheter_ablation

Probably better to read that than for me to type it all up. Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:39 PM   #96
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Sam, are you even surprised? This is E46 OT...not your normal crowd of folks. The attention span of people here is like that of flies.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:07 PM   #97
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How many people read your thesis? slash, give us an abridged abstract.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:36 PM   #98
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workbench or classic?
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:37 AM   #99
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Sam, are you even surprised? This is E46 OT...not your normal crowd of folks. The attention span of people here is like that of flies.
You know, sometimes there's that glimmer of hope...and it immediately gets squashed.

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How many people read your thesis? slash, give us an abridged abstract.
No thesis, I had a capstone project working with turbine power generation systems and assisted another project on another capstone working with super computer cooling systems prior to my own capstone.

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workbench or classic?
wat?
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:39 AM   #100
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Do you travel much?

~35% of my time is traveling to customers, suppliers, corporate meetings, seminars, etc.
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