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Old 08-04-2015, 01:33 PM   #1
TheDesigner
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DISA Valve problem- not the usual! electrical?

Right, i've edited this first post to clear up the issue at hand.

I've tested the DISA valve directly from the 12 Volt battery, and it works perfectly as it should. snaps and holds the flap shut without a problem.

However when i attach it back to the vehicle via the connector and switch the ignition on, it does absolutely nothing. I've given the valve vacuum to make sure it's holding it and still it doesnt even make a sound at all and 0 movement.

I've tested the connector and there is a constant 12V coming from it, and i've also run wires from the connector points to the DISA valve to make sure there is a good connection and tested that voltage was reaching the part still, yet nothing!

So i dont understand how it works perfectly fine from the battery with the same voltage, but not when attached via the connector.

Someone help me out here? am i missing something?!

UPDATE- Turns out the ground wire to the DISA is kaput.

How do i go about fixing the ground wire to the DISA?

Last edited by TheDesigner; 08-16-2015 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:29 PM   #2
Handsomecore
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I never knew the DISA valve had a code . Mine was bad and it never gave me a code . Do u mind sharing ?
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:04 PM   #3
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First things first.

These engines ALWAYS sound like they have a vacuum leak when they have leaks and when they DO NOT have leaks. The idle air bypass is a bit noisy on these engines, so DO NOT chase vacuum leaks based on just sound.

What codes are you getting and what tool are you using to pull the codes?

As I recall the most common problem is to mix up the Evap and DISA connectors as they are the same and they can reach each position, although on some cars if the cables are mixed up, one tends to be stretched pretty tight as I recall.

Not sure the thermostat and DISA can be swapped. Not sure if the thermostat wiring can be swapped with anything else as well.

I would focus on the oil pressure and temp senders as well.

You likely blew the fuse for the Thermostat heater, which WILL cause the fuel pump not to run. I have to check, but I think this is Fuse #4 in the DME box?

If the DISA has no power, it will open up and effectively act like it is not there or badly broken. You should be able to see the bellcrank from the side of the DISA and detemine if it is open or closed.

Also when shutting down one of these engines with a tight crankcase and a good DISA, if you listen, you WILL hear a "gasp" sound as the crankcase pressure equalizes and I can hear the DISA open as well. You may need to open the hood, but these 2 distinct noises can be heard on these engines when everything is in proper operating order.
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by TheDesigner View Post
I recently changed my CVV

Also makes a suction noise after shutting the engine down, like a sigh of relief. sounds like a vacuum leak but i really am stuck!

Thanks.
It sounds like you have high vacuum in the crankcase that is released upon engine shutdown. Did you clean out the dipstick guide tube? There is a small chance that the diaphragm in your new CCV may be defective too. Did parts come from Sweden or Germany?
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:31 PM   #5
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Also makes a suction noise after shutting the engine down, like a sigh of relief. sounds like a vacuum leak but i really am stuck! My engine has 3 vacuum ports on the back of the inlet manifold but nothing going to them, is that normal? and yes they are plugged.
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Also when shutting down one of these engines with a tight crankcase and a good DISA, if you listen, you WILL hear a "gasp" sound as the crankcase pressure equalizes and I can hear the DISA open as well. You may need to open the hood, but these 2 distinct noises can be heard on these engines when everything is in proper operating order.
This is typically a "normal" condition on a "good" engine.
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:53 AM   #6
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Thanks guys,

i retested the connections on the DISA and was getting over 13V when the car was idling which means good news that power is still getting to the unit.

Also noted resistance on the pins of the disa to e at around 45 ohms which from what i've researched is pretty normal.

Bad news is, still no movement on the actuator arm when it's attached to the car.

The DISA i tested off the car and it holds vaccuum and when i applied an external 12V power source it made a clicking noise and the arm shifted slightly, so why isn't it doing that on the car??

Thanks!
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:19 AM   #7
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Thanks guys,

i retested the connections on the DISA and was getting over 13V when the car was idling which means good news that power is still getting to the unit.

Also noted resistance on the pins of the disa to e at around 45 ohms which from what i've researched is pretty normal.

Bad news is, still no movement on the actuator arm when it's attached to the car.

The DISA i tested off the car and it holds vaccuum and when i applied an external 12V power source it made a clicking noise and the arm shifted slightly, so why isn't it doing that on the car??

Thanks!
So the way the DISA works is around 2500-3000?? RPM while the engine is under load the DME turns the power off to the DISA connection, this allows the DISA control solenoid to bleed the vaccum off and the spring will open the DISA. Once the engine RPM drops down below 2500-3000 ?? RPM the power is restored to the DISA and it the vacuum reservoir provides vacuum to close the DISA again.

Simple test while the car is idling, unplug the DISA connection and watch the DISA bellcrank, it should move when the DISA opens.

You WILL NOT see the DISA open and close while free revving the engine as I recall.
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
So the way the DISA works is around 2500-3000?? RPM while the engine is under load the DME turns the power off to the DISA connection, this allows the DISA control solenoid to bleed the vaccum off and the spring will open the DISA. Once the engine RPM drops down below 2500-3000 ?? RPM the power is restored to the DISA and it the vacuum reservoir provides vacuum to close the DISA again.

Simple test while the car is idling, unplug the DISA connection and watch the DISA bellcrank, it should move when the DISA opens.

You WILL NOT see the DISA open and close while free revving the engine as I recall.
Yeah that's what i'm saying.

The actuator isn't moving at all, if i plug or unplug it on idle , it just stays the same in the open position as if there is no power getting to the unit.

but i've tested the connector and there is Voltage.

and when i tested it off the vehicle with an external power source the actuator shifted and made a clicking noise. so im curious as to why it's doing absolutely nothing when connected to the car.
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Old 08-08-2015, 11:59 AM   #9
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Then the diaphragm is probably bad. The DISA will open when the engine is shut off as well. It is not rocket science, the thing is stupid simple.
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:19 PM   #10
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But when i done a bench test and pulled the flap to the closed position and held my finger over the hole it stayed put which shows that the diaphragm should be good right?
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Old 08-08-2015, 03:57 PM   #11
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This video is more accurate about how to test the vacuum diaphragm. Shake the DISA, it should make NO noise and the flap should open up about 1/4 of the way when holding your finger on the vacuum port.



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Last edited by jfoj; 08-08-2015 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 08-08-2015, 04:03 PM   #12
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I've watched all the videos and done all the tests I can find online, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a problem I can fix without shelling out a bunch for a new unit, without knowing if it will fix the issue.

But thanks a bunch for your input!

Last edited by TheDesigner; 08-08-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 08-08-2015, 04:11 PM   #13
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Unless there is some problem where the unit is getting physically jammed in the intake and cannot move, the problem should be OBVIOUS.

Not sure this will pertain/fit your specific application, but here is a solution many opt for when the plastic flap and shaft are worn - https://www.germanautosolutions.com/...repair_kit.php

Again, the DISA is nothing magical and is pretty straight forward and simple.

Reinspect it again, remove the cover if needed to watch what happens.

Maybe the solenoid is bad, but you should be able to reach the vacuum breather port, plug it with your finger and the DISA would close if the solenoid was not sealing or closing.

You should also be able to test the solenoid by closing the DISA flap manually, with the ignition on, plug the DISA back in and it should hold the flap about 1/4 the way open.
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Old 08-08-2015, 04:16 PM   #14
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That last reply was awesome, I'll do them last two suggestions tomorrow to check it, and I'll report back!

Thanks
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:32 AM   #15
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Right, i've edited this first post to clear up the issue at hand.

I've tested the DISA valve directly from the 12 Volt battery, and it works perfectly as it should. snaps and holds the flap shut without a problem.

However when i attach it back to the vehicle via the connector and switch the ignition on, it does absolutely nothing. I've given the valve vacuum to make sure it's holding it and still it doesnt even make a sound at all and 0 movement.

I've tested the connector and there is a constant 12V coming from it, and i've also run wires from the connector points to the DISA valve to make sure there is a good connection and tested that voltage was reaching the part still, yet nothing!

So i dont understand how it works perfectly fine from the battery with the same voltage, but not when attached via the connector.

Someone help me out here? am i missing something?!
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:16 AM   #16
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If the engine is NOT running, the DISA will/should always be OPEN.

If you turn the ignition on, but the engine is NOT running, the DISA is OPEN because it has NO VACUUM source. The DISA vacuum chamber bleeds out and will not hold vacuum longer than about 15 seconds as I recall. This is the way it is designed.

If the engine is running, the DISA should be CLOSED as it then will have a source of vacuum. Again, when the engine is turned off the DISA opens in about 15 seconds. I can hear the DISA on my engine open, when I am out of the car hear the hood.

I cannot say 100% if you can get the DISA to open and close by unplugging the connector and watching it at idle. I do not think I have tried this. If you just make sure the DISA is open when the engine is shut down and closed when the engine is running you should be fine. I do know that one way to test for a noisy DISA is to unplug the connector, so it has some effect on what is going on.

The DISA connector has 12 Volts on one side all the time, the DME controls the ground side of the DISA and I assume the ground is necessary for the vacuum control valve on the DISA to bleed off vacuum. I may have mis-stated that unplugging the DISA electrical connector would cause it to open. I do not think I have personally confirmed this and you cannot always assume you fully understand how something works on these cars until you try and spoof things.

Do you have the correct DISA for the engine, there are 3 different ones as I recall. They can be mixed up. The 330/3.0l is the longest and I do not think will fully seat in any intake other than the 330/3.0l.

Can you move the DISA bell crank by hand when the engine is off? If not, this is a problem.

Either you are misunderstanding how the DISA works or there is a problem mechanically making the flap bind.

It may be possible that the DISA and EVAP connector are the same on these cars and the pigtail may be long enough to mix up the wiring. BUT as I recall this causes other problems and some had said it would be very hard to make the wiring read the DISA.
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Last edited by jfoj; 08-16-2015 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:29 AM   #17
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If the engine is NOT running, the DISA will/should always be OPEN.

If you turn the ignition on, but the engine is NOT running, the DISA is OPEN because it has NO VACUUM source. The DISA vacuum chamber bleeds out and will not hold vacuum longer than about 15 seconds as I recall. This is the way it is designed.

If the engine is running, the DISA should be CLOSED as it then will have a source of vacuum. Again, when the engine is turned off the DISA opens in about 15 seconds. I can hear the DISA on my engine open, when I am out of the car hear the hood.

I cannot say 100% if you can get the DISA to open and close by unplugging the connector and watching it at idle. I do not think I have tried this. If you just make sure the DISA is open when the engine is shut down and closed when the engine is running you should be fine. I do know that one way to test for a noisy DISA is to unplug the connector, so it has some effect on what is going on.

The DISA connector has 12 Volts on one side all the time, the DME controls the ground side of the DISA and I assume the ground is necessary for the vacuum control valve on the DISA to bleed off vacuum. I may have mis-stated that unplugging the DISA electrical connector would cause it to open. I do not think I have personally confirmed this and you cannot always assume you fully understand how something works on these cars until you try and spoof things.

Do you have the correct DISA for the engine, there are 3 different ones as I recall. They can be mixed up. The 330/3.0l is the longest and I do not think will fully seat in any intake other than the 330/3.0l.

Can you move the DISA bell crank by hand when the engine is off? If not, this is a problem.

Either you are misunderstanding how the DISA works or there is a problem mechanically making the flap bind.

It may be possible that the DISA and EVAP connector are the same on these cars and the pigtail may be long enough to mix up the wiring. BUT as I recall this causes other problems and some had said it would be very hard to make the wiring read the DISA.
I will try and be very detailed in this post to get across what the issues are.

I understand how the DISA should function, and i'm aware that without vacuum it will not close, as both vacuum and voltage is required for that function.

i have used an external vacuum pump to create vacuum in the DISA and tested it using the 12V battery directly and it snaps shut just as it should.

However when i apply vacuum again, but test it with the connector at the front, there is no movement or any sign of function whatsoever.

At Idle the connector is showing 13.8V which is more than enough power to get the DISA valve to close with vacuum too.

So is it possible that i have a bad ground on the DISA valve?
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Old 08-16-2015, 10:38 AM   #18
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UPDATE!

OK i have some news! Not sure if it's good or bad news. Good news because i know what the problem is! But i don't know how tricky it will be to fix?!

Turns out the ground wire to the DISA valve is kaput.

I tested it with a wire for the voltage to the DISA valve and another wire from the DISA to a ground point on the car, I.e a bolt. and it had power to it! So there's my main problem right there.

So how do i go about fixing the ground wire? and that's problably the reason why a fuse blew in the DME when i changed the CVV a few weeks ago?
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Old 08-16-2015, 11:37 AM   #19
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UPDATE!

OK i have some news! Not sure if it's good or bad news. Good news because i know what the problem is! But i don't know how tricky it will be to fix?!

Turns out the ground wire to the DISA valve is kaput.

I tested it with a wire for the voltage to the DISA valve and another wire from the DISA to a ground point on the car, I.e a bolt. and it had power to it! So there's my main problem right there.

So how do i go about fixing the ground wire? and that's problably the reason why a fuse blew in the DME when i changed the CVV a few weeks ago?
The ground wire is NOT a ground wire. It is a CONTROL wire that is grounded by the DME to control the DISA. Also the DME has a supervisor circuit in almost all of the control transistors and if there is a problem the DME should trigger a code.

Most items controlled by the DME (Injectors, Coils, Solenoids) are controlled on the ground side. These devices always have 12 Volts feed via a fuse and these are typically controlled by a relay or the ignition. Rarely do these items have 12 Volts at all times.

How are you providing vacuum to the DISA? I hope you are not using the port you plug with your finger.

My other question is why do you think there is a problem with the DISA? If there was an electrical problem you should be getting some form of OBDII/EOBD code.
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Old 08-16-2015, 02:18 PM   #20
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The ground wire is NOT a ground wire. It is a CONTROL wire that is grounded by the DME to control the DISA. Also the DME has a supervisor circuit in almost all of the control transistors and if there is a problem the DME should trigger a code.

Most items controlled by the DME (Injectors, Coils, Solenoids) are controlled on the ground side. These devices always have 12 Volts feed via a fuse and these are typically controlled by a relay or the ignition. Rarely do these items have 12 Volts at all times.

How are you providing vacuum to the DISA? I hope you are not using the port you plug with your finger.

My other question is why do you think there is a problem with the DISA? If there was an electrical problem you should be getting some form of OBDII/EOBD code.
Erm, ok. . so one of the connections at the connector has 12.07V when ignition is on, and 13.8V when the vehicle is idling.

The other port on the connector is not grounded, which i assume it should be via the DME?

when i tested it by adding a ground wire to the DISA and connected the voltage from the connector, the DISA functioned properly.

No i'm not using that port, i'm using the small hole that is where the flap is.

So question is, how do i repair the wiring? i assume i need to run along the wiring with the multimeter to find where the issue is?

Could it be a relay issue? as a fuse blew in the E-box, but i havnt checked the relays.

Last edited by TheDesigner; 08-16-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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