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Old 08-17-2015, 02:07 PM   #21
TheDesigner
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
The ground wire is NOT a ground wire. It is a CONTROL wire that is grounded by the DME to control the DISA. Also the DME has a supervisor circuit in almost all of the control transistors and if there is a problem the DME should trigger a code.

Most items controlled by the DME (Injectors, Coils, Solenoids) are controlled on the ground side. These devices always have 12 Volts feed via a fuse and these are typically controlled by a relay or the ignition. Rarely do these items have 12 Volts at all times.

How are you providing vacuum to the DISA? I hope you are not using the port you plug with your finger.

My other question is why do you think there is a problem with the DISA? If there was an electrical problem you should be getting some form of OBDII/EOBD code.

OK i finally understand what you're saying now! So it gets fed 12V+ constantly via the fuse. The control wire next to it is controlled by the DME and that basically switches at around 4K rpm and opens up the flap again.

Well i've tested the control wire up to the connector onto the DME and the wire is fine. Continuity is good, and resistance is very minimal.

I tested the pin at that connector on the DME, pin number 49 i think it is on my model according to the wiring diagrams, and tested it for continuity and resistance with the ground point for the DME, and no reading showed up.

Which means there is no connection between the DME and ground at pin 49.
i assume there should be to allow for the DISA to shut when the voltage is applied.

So does this mean my DME is bad?

I checked a pin close to it with the ground and it had low resistance and continuity so i assume that the ground is ok.

Please help! i'm getting closer to the problem now.
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Old 08-17-2015, 02:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TheDesigner View Post
OK i finally understand what you're saying now! So it gets fed 12V+ constantly via the fuse. The control wire next to it is controlled by the DME and that basically switches at around 4K rpm and opens up the flap again.

Well i've tested the control wire up to the connector onto the DME and the wire is fine. Continuity is good, and resistance is very minimal.

I tested the pin at that connector on the DME, pin number 49 i think it is on my model according to the wiring diagrams, and tested it for continuity and resistance with the ground point for the DME, and no reading showed up.

Which means there is no connection between the DME and ground at pin 49.
i assume there should be to allow for the DISA to shut when the voltage is applied.

So does this mean my DME is bad?

I checked a pin close to it with the ground and it had low resistance and continuity so i assume that the ground is ok.

Please help! i'm getting closer to the problem now.
You are starting to understand how the DISA is powered and controlled.

The DME controls things not via relays, but via transistors or some form of semiconductor device. You cannot easily confirmed the DME semiconductor with a simple Ohm test at times. Additionally the DME usually has a supervisory resistive leg on the output side of the circuit and often the supervisory part of the circuit can fool you when testing. Often times the design of the circuit REQUIRES the power to be looped through the device that is controlled to supply a power leg/circuit path for the semiconductor inside the DME so the item can be switched on and off.

I have not looked at my car and determined if the DME constantly grounds the DISA, my guess is the DME would likely only ground the DISA when it wants it to open, usually the designers tend to control the less used state, but this is no guarantee.

Again, my question is what exactly is your problem?

I am not going to be able to get my hands on my E46 for a few weeks for a number of reasons, so I cannot tell you what a "know good" car behaves like.

You might want to monitor the control side of the DISA with a Voltmeter in the car and go for a drive. I assume you will see some form of Voltage and then no Voltage in the 2 states the DISA is likely to operate.

This should give you an idea if the DME is in fact working correctly.
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Last edited by jfoj; 08-17-2015 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:30 PM   #23
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You are starting to understand how the DISA is powered and controlled.

The DME controls things not via relays, but via transistors or some form of semiconductor device. You cannot easily confirmed the DME semiconductor with a simple Ohm test at times. Additionally the DME usually has a supervisory resistive leg on the output side of the circuit and often the supervisory part of the circuit can fool you when testing. Often times the design of the circuit REQUIRES the power to be looped through the device that is controlled to supply a power leg/circuit path for the semiconductor inside the DME so the item can be switched on and off.

I have not looked at my car and determined if the DME constantly grounds the DISA, my guess is the DME would likely only ground the DISA when it wants it to open, usually the designers tend to control the less used state, but this is no guarantee.

Again, my question is what exactly is your problem?

I am not going to be able to get my hands on my E46 for a few weeks for a number of reasons, so I cannot tell you what a "know good" car behaves like.

You might want to monitor the control side of the DISA with a Voltmeter in the car and go for a drive. I assume you will see some form of Voltage and then no Voltage in the 2 states the DISA is likely to operate.

This should give you an idea if the DME is in fact working correctly.
Surely the DME would only ground it when it wants the DISA to be closed? as that makes the circuit complete?

I Done a few tests, such as checked to see whether the control wire is grounded while the engine was idling, and there was no continuity. so no ground.

But when i tested it adding a ground wire to the disa pin, the solenoid kicked into life. . so surely it needs the ground the close the DISA and then shuts off the switch when you go above 4K rpm to disconnect the ground and open the disa flap?

I also done a voltage test on the connector which was at 13+V at idle, then revved all the way up and over 5K rpm and it stayed at 13+V . . so that means the DME isnt signalling to open the valve flap?

Or am i still way off base?

And to answer your question, My DISA valve is non functional when attached to the car. On a bench test the solenoid worked and made a clicking noise and shifted slightly but didn't function properly. But back on the car the solenoid would not do a thing. as if there was no power going to the unit. I have purchased a new DISA because this one isn't actually very good, but my issue is even with a new DISA, there will still be no power to the unit going by my bench tests.
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Old 08-17-2015, 05:54 PM   #24
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Surely the DME would only ground it when it wants the DISA to be closed? as that makes the circuit complete?

I Done a few tests, such as checked to see whether the control wire is grounded while the engine was idling, and there was no continuity. so no ground.

But when i tested it adding a ground wire to the disa pin, the solenoid kicked into life. . so surely it needs the ground the close the DISA and then shuts off the switch when you go above 4K rpm to disconnect the ground and open the disa flap?

I also done a voltage test on the connector which was at 13+V at idle, then revved all the way up and over 5K rpm and it stayed at 13+V . . so that means the DME isnt signalling to open the valve flap?

Or am i still way off base?

And to answer your question, My DISA valve is non functional when attached to the car. On a bench test the solenoid worked and made a clicking noise and shifted slightly but didn't function properly. But back on the car the solenoid would not do a thing. as if there was no power going to the unit. I have purchased a new DISA because this one isn't actually very good, but my issue is even with a new DISA, there will still be no power to the unit going by my bench tests.
So I was able to to get a hold of my E46 for about 2 minutes this evening.

I did not get a chance to actually do any electrical testing, but I did some quick and dirty testing by unplugging and plugging the DISA in.

On a "Known Good" car, you can watch the DISA vacuum actuator arm.

Unplugging and plugging the DISA connector while the engine is idling, the DISA will open and close without effort. I just wanted to 100% verify this because anytime you make assumptions with a BMW you can be burned!

Also DO NOT expect the DISA to open without the engine under load. Free revving the engine in park or neutral will not likely command the DME to open the DISA. The DME probably looks at both RPM and MAF rate.

Again, it is TOTALLY unclear if your DISA has a problem or you just think there is a problem.

Assume you pulled the DME connectors? You may want to read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1052977
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Last edited by jfoj; 08-17-2015 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 08-17-2015, 06:01 PM   #25
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I'm having exact same issue on my 325i

DISA solenoid does not respond to power from connector but does respond to directly applied power. The root cause appears to be related to the "control" wire. Perhaps there is a fuse on the DME side? Please let me know if you find solution and I'll do some more research and let you know if I find anything.
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Old 08-17-2015, 06:05 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by GoodGravy View Post
DISA solenoid does not respond to power from connector but does respond to directly applied power. The root cause appears to be related to the "control" wire. Perhaps there is a fuse on the DME side? Please let me know if you find solution and I'll do some more research and let you know if I find anything.
Slow down here.

There is NOT fuse on the DME side, the circuit is likely self limiting.

I think we are ghost chasing.

I need to know if the DISA can be manually moved while installed in the intake. If the DISA cannot be move while the engine is off manually, then this is a problem.

Pictures of the DISA out of the intake may be helpful as well.
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Last edited by jfoj; 08-17-2015 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 08-17-2015, 06:27 PM   #27
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Ok, Thanks jfoj…No fuses on DME side. DISA can be moved manually while installed (as well as when 12V is applied to DISA terminals).

There's gotta be something on the connector/DME side that is preventing DISA solenoid actuation. Connector has power but does not actuate solenoid.
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:03 PM   #28
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I am still not convinced I fully understand what the problem is here. Maybe it was clearly outlined and it went over my head. Maybe I have to reread the thread from the beginning. If there was a wiring problem, I would expect the DME to trigger a code for either a shorted or open for the DISA. Not sure we have this.

So moving forward, have we verified that the DISA flap can be manually moved by hand when the engine is off and the DISA is installed in the intake?

Next I would make sure the female connectors for the DISA are tight and not spread, this could cause a problem with the DISA operation.

Then I would move on to really looking over all the wiring very carefully. BMW wiring is known to be too brittle, not annealed enough, and can easily break internally inside the insulation and wiring harness. Also wiring can often break at the connector terminals. The and do a continuity test on the Ground/Control side of the DISA circuit all the way back to the DME connector X60003, terminal 40. I would use a test light for most of the rest rather than Ohmmeter because the Ohmmeter cannot load the circuit properly. I would even wire the test light in as a substitute for the DISA and put the test light under the windshield wiper so I could take the car out and watch to see what the DME does, if anything, with the test light substituted for the DISA. Drive the car under a load and up to about 4500 RPM and see if the test light responds in any way.

Also make absolutely sure we are dealing with the correct connector. As I mentioned the Evap Purge Valve and DISA I believe use the same connector and can be swapped. Note the Evap Purger Solenoid control circuit is in the same DME connector, X60003, but in position 42.

Now this being said, I believe the "Logic" of the Evap Purge Valve and the DISA are opposite??????

So if the DISA connector is connected to the Evap Purge Valve then often the purge valve is open all the time and will cause idle problems.

Next I would make sure the female connectors for the DISA are tight and not spread, this could cause a problem with the DISA operation.

It is possible the DISA driver was blown out in the DME for some reason, but this is probably unlikely. The majority of problems tend to be wiring or connector related and they need to be ruled out assuming we are sure there is a problem.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:56 PM   #29
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Yes, there is a DME fault triggered…"(124) 7C Solenoid valve, intake manifold (DISA), activation" which is leading to misfire faults as well.

Verified that DISA can be moved by hand when installed and ruled out faulty female connectors. (bypassed connector and connected directly to DISA pins)

Multi-metering shows over 13V between the hot and ground/control connector terminals yet DISA solenoid does not respond to it. The DISA does however respond to any other 13V that is applied. So it seems that the 13V that the DISA circuit supplies is somehow "inferior".

Evap purge valve connector won't reach DISA so that mixup is very unlikely.

Bottom line: DISA responds to any 13V except the 13V that the DISA circuit provides.

Mind boggling
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:54 PM   #30
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Grabbing at straws on this idea, check all the fuses in the glove box, there may be something strange that impacts the DME's ability to control the DISA. The power to the DISA is from the fuse holder in the DME box and if you have 12 Volts at the DISA, then this fuse is good.

There may be a coil resistance issue causing the problem? If I can find my spare DISA I will try to measure the resistance.

It is hard to explain, but 12 Volts is present at the DISA at all times while the ignition is on. The ground side is pulled low by the DME. The DME has some sort of semiconductor bias the DISA control line to Ground. I am assuming that this semiconductor needs to see some level of positive Voltage to work properly.

It is possible the driver/semiconductor for the DISA has failed, but it is also just as possible there is a grounding problem or some power feed issue with the DME or there could have been an O2 sensor heater wiring short that we have seen from time to time actually damage some of the wiring terminals in the DME.

Who knows, maybe something like this has occurred? - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=905043

I say consider using a test light for some of the testing because the power path through the test light may allow the DISA semiconductor to function. This is a guess, but something to consider.

I would be inspecting the DME wiring closely if you are convinced there is no external problem.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:38 AM   #31
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Ok cool we're getting somewhere!

Same problem, actuator will not function under power from the connector, but will from an external power source.

Over 13V going to the connector, so that's why I'm assuming there's a problem on the control side.

I've ordered a new disa as mine was a bit iffy!

So in a couple of days I'll be able to test to be 100% sure it's not the actual valve.

Then I can start diagnosing the wiring deeper.

I have reset my fault codes so after a long drive I'll let you know if and what codes I have.

I did have a disa code but I think it's because I disconnected it during the testing

P1512. Disa control signal low

So I'll see if it comes back up.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:14 PM   #32
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Great! Looking forward to your results.

Checked glove box fuses. All is well there.
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:50 AM   #33
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Good afternoon!

So i fitted the new DISA valve, no change whatsoever, still no movement in the actuator.

however, when i went to add a ground wire to bypass the control wire just to see if it would close with the engine voltage supplied, it sparked and blew fuse Number 2 in the DME.

Now, when i replaced and checked the engine codes, as you'd expect. . all the parts in that area i.e idle control valve etc threw up codes saying signal low.

However the purge valve threw up a code saying circuit has been shorted. so thats where the circuit ended up shorting! so happens i had a purge valve spare in my boot that i got from the breakers back in the uk. replaced the old one. . fired her up, and the car actually seems to have a bit more grunt! however the DISA valve will still not open!

So we're right back to this point, with very few options left except from wiring issue somewhere.

I checked the DISA control wire and it is absolutely fine.

When i checked the pin on the DME that correlates to the DISA control wire, i checked for continuity with ground. . and there was nothing.

If possible would someone with the Ms43 DME be able to check whether pin 49 in x6003 is grounded all the time, as i checked a few other pins in that area and some were connected to ground.

I opened up the DME and checked the circuit boards for any obvious burn marks etc, and they were very very clean!

So im stumped.

Any suggestions please?

Last edited by TheDesigner; 08-21-2015 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 08-21-2015, 02:16 PM   #34
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UPDATE

Right this is a bit weird.

So i connected up the multimeter to the connector and taped it to my windscreen so i could go for a drive to see if anything changed.

The Voltage stayed at around 13.8V the whole way through the rev range.

Weird thing though, the performance increased massively driving it with the DISA NOT connected! =S

It's never been as fast as this is the 2 months i'd owned it and i've always been a bit disappointed thinking it felt too slow for a 2.5L car.

So how on earth is that possible? It should not have made a difference as the connector was not activating the DISA anyway?! =S
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Old 09-24-2015, 07:58 PM   #35
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Did this mystery ever get solved???
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:09 PM   #36
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I have exactly the same problem. I'm starting to think that is bug of euro2 dme update (my car is factory euro2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGravy View Post
Yes, there is a DME fault triggered…"(124) 7C Solenoid valve, intake manifold (DISA), activation" which is leading to misfire faults as well.

Verified that DISA can be moved by hand when installed and ruled out faulty female connectors. (bypassed connector and connected directly to DISA pins)

Multi-metering shows over 13V between the hot and ground/control connector terminals yet DISA solenoid does not respond to it. The DISA does however respond to any other 13V that is applied. So it seems that the 13V that the DISA circuit supplies is somehow "inferior".

Evap purge valve connector won't reach DISA so that mixup is very unlikely.

Bottom line: DISA responds to any 13V except the 13V that the DISA circuit provides.

Mind boggling
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:13 PM   #37
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Check your grounds!
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:30 PM   #38
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I forgot to say i can activate DISA from DIS. That's why i think it's a software bug.

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I have exactly the same problem. I'm starting to think that is bug of euro2 dme update (my car is factory euro2)
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:35 AM   #39
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Did this mystery ever get solved???
After reading through this thread I suspect OP fried the DME transistor that switches the DISA signal to ground, given all the dangerous probing he was doing.

His last post states the car had much more power with the DISA disconnected. Who wants to bet it still is?
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:37 AM   #40
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Check your grounds!
On what grounds do you base this?
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