E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > The Tire Rack's Tire & Wheel Forum

The Tire Rack's Tire & Wheel Forum
Use this forum to discuss anything in relation to wheels to tires to offsets.
Sponsored by The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-04-2015, 01:43 PM   #21
Geo31
Ironman
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willis, TX, USA
Posts: 3,148
My Ride: 98 M-Z3, 01 325iT
If you wanted to make 3pc wheels (and/or change the diameter), they can machine off the attached barrels to create a center section that can be combined with whatever barrels suited your needs. The Porsche folks do this with the forged Fuchs wheels.
__________________
George Roffe

Swim: 2.4 Miles
Bike: 112 Miles
Run: 26.2 Miles
Brag: For the rest of your life


Geo31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 01:53 PM   #22
JJR4884
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 18,692
My Ride: BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flop View Post
Curious to hear what they say. I might try this one day. I think building a set to 18x9 +0 for a square setup would be perfect.
errrrr +0 offset on a 9 inch rim?
__________________
JJR4884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 03:13 PM   #23
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJR4884 View Post
errrrr +0 offset on a 9 inch rim?
Yeah. I'm running 18x9 +5 right now. +0 is doable, and would probably make for 4" lips which would be sweet.
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 10:21 AM   #24
trizzuth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MA$$HOLE
Posts: 6,030
My Ride: 231k, 16yr old B3AST
OK, so I bought them! Entire set is brand spanking new, the previous owner bought them brand new from ECS tuning, complete in 100% OE BMW Original Parts boxes! Size for the set is a bit unique for Style 71's, maybe this is the size they put on some E36's? I've read somewhere that you could special order these for the E36 at one point, so maybe that is what these were meant for?

Set is 17" x 8.5" square. So for tires, I'm looking at 225/45/17 for a perfect fitment now. Makes sense considering that you all run 225/40/18's, so the 5mm difference accounts for the inch in difference in diameter.

Now, that being said, these are 2 piece wheels, so once you do get the face off Russo, the barrel will be separate. In the pics I put here of the 19's with step lip, I naturally assumed they were using 17" centers and that allowed them to get the step in there, I think it would be hard to get a step lip if you're going from an 18" center to a 19" overall diameter, but I could be wrong, I am just assuming! I also believe that if the company who does these knows what they are doing, they could provide you with a custom barrel that provides the exact offset you want, and would still make this a 2 piece wheel.

Check out this site I found awhile back called ehrlich wheel works at http://ewheelworks.us/

Although they specialize in BBS 1, 2 and 3 piece wheels, this would be a cakewalk for them I bet. AMAZING sets on that site, simply AMAZING!
__________________
trizzuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 02:11 PM   #25
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by trizzuth View Post
OK, so I bought them! Entire set is brand spanking new, the previous owner bought them brand new from ECS tuning, complete in 100% OE BMW Original Parts boxes! Size for the set is a bit unique for Style 71's, maybe this is the size they put on some E36's? I've read somewhere that you could special order these for the E36 at one point, so maybe that is what these were meant for?

Set is 17" x 8.5" square. So for tires, I'm looking at 225/45/17 for a perfect fitment now. Makes sense considering that you all run 225/40/18's, so the 5mm difference accounts for the inch in difference in diameter.

Now, that being said, these are 2 piece wheels, so once you do get the face off Russo, the barrel will be separate. In the pics I put here of the 19's with step lip, I naturally assumed they were using 17" centers and that allowed them to get the step in there, I think it would be hard to get a step lip if you're going from an 18" center to a 19" overall diameter, but I could be wrong, I am just assuming! I also believe that if the company who does these knows what they are doing, they could provide you with a custom barrel that provides the exact offset you want, and would still make this a 2 piece wheel.

Check out this site I found awhile back called ehrlich wheel works at http://ewheelworks.us/

Although they specialize in BBS 1, 2 and 3 piece wheels, this would be a cakewalk for them I bet. AMAZING sets on that site, simply AMAZING!
I would run 235/45R17s, but 225/45 will work too. The speedo difference from 225 to 235 is negligible.

Also, just FYI, the middle number in a tire size (e.g. 235/45R18) corresponds to a percent... not a width in mm. So a 235/45 tire will have a sidewall height of 45% the width (235mm), or 106mm.

Last edited by Flop; 12-09-2015 at 02:12 PM.
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 02:16 PM   #26
trizzuth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MA$$HOLE
Posts: 6,030
My Ride: 231k, 16yr old B3AST
Right, I gotcha, but let me ask you this:

If the 235 and 225 corresponds to the WIDTH of the tire, how can that have any effect on the speedo? I thought it was more the overall diameter of the tire and wheel combo that would affect that, as a larger diameter tire and wheel combo would obviously take more pavement to make one full revolution compared to the stock acceptable size.

So on my 18" summer setup, they are 18" x 8" and I run the stock 225/40/18 size. Makes sense to me that since these are 8.5 inches wide, the width of the tire could be increased by a bit, so your 235/45/17 suggestion seems most appropriate, and would make my front beefy as hell. Probably lead to more tramlining though..
__________________

Last edited by trizzuth; 12-09-2015 at 02:17 PM.
trizzuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 03:34 PM   #27
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by trizzuth View Post
Right, I gotcha, but let me ask you this:

If the 235 and 225 corresponds to the WIDTH of the tire, how can that have any effect on the speedo? I thought it was more the overall diameter of the tire and wheel combo that would affect that, as a larger diameter tire and wheel combo would obviously take more pavement to make one full revolution compared to the stock acceptable size.

So on my 18" summer setup, they are 18" x 8" and I run the stock 225/40/18 size. Makes sense to me that since these are 8.5 inches wide, the width of the tire could be increased by a bit, so your 235/45/17 suggestion seems most appropriate, and would make my front beefy as hell. Probably lead to more tramlining though..

Because the sidewall aspect ratio is a function of the width of the tire. Going from 225 to 235, results in an increased sidewall height of 4.5mm, and therefore an increased overall diameter of 9mm. (225 * .45 = 101.25 ) and ( 235 * .45 = 105.75). This is also why cars with a staggered tire fitment run a lower aspect ratio in the back (E46 is 225/40 front, 255/35 rear), as it results in an overall diameter that is about the same.

235 is far from beefy, and will result in that nice "square" sidewall look on a 8.5" wheel. Think about it, a 235 on an 8.5" wheel will actually be slightly more "stretched" than a 225 on a 8" wheel (going up by 12.7mm in wheel width, and only 10mm in tire width).
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 03:46 PM   #28
trizzuth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MA$$HOLE
Posts: 6,030
My Ride: 231k, 16yr old B3AST
makes perfect sense now.. thanks for the hookup!!

Sent from my LS670 using BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
trizzuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 03:50 PM   #29
Geo31
Ironman
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willis, TX, USA
Posts: 3,148
My Ride: 98 M-Z3, 01 325iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flop View Post
Because the sidewall aspect ratio is a function of the width of the tire. Going from 225 to 235, results in an increased sidewall height of 4.5mm, and therefore an increased overall diameter of 9mm. (225 * .45 = 101.25 ) and ( 235 * .45 = 105.75). This is also why cars with a staggered tire fitment run a lower aspect ratio in the back (E46 is 225/40 front, 255/35 rear), as it results in an overall diameter that is about the same.

235 is far from beefy, and will result in that nice "square" sidewall look on a 8.5" wheel. Think about it, a 235 on an 8.5" wheel will actually be slightly more "stretched" than a 225 on a 8" wheel (going up by 12.7mm in wheel width, and only 10mm in tire width).
Bingo

BTW, T, if you want to do the calculations yourself, it's:

2xWx(A/100)+(Dx25.4)

Where:
W = tire width
A = aspect ratio (not expressed as a percentage)
D = diameter of the wheel

So:
2x225x(45/100)+(17x25.4)
(450x0.45)+431.8
202.5+431.8
= 634.3mm diameter of the 225/40-17

And:
2x235x(45/100)+(17x25.4)
(470x0.45)+431.8
211.5+431.8
= 643.3mm diameter of the 235/40-17

643.3-634.3 =9mm

Percentage of error:
9/634.3=0.014 or 1.4%

[edit] I included the calculation for overall tire diameter so those playing along on the sidelines can figure out how to calculate correct sizing for plus size wheels/tires
__________________
George Roffe

Swim: 2.4 Miles
Bike: 112 Miles
Run: 26.2 Miles
Brag: For the rest of your life



Last edited by Geo31; 12-09-2015 at 03:51 PM.
Geo31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 04:25 PM   #30
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo31 View Post
Bingo

BTW, T, if you want to do the calculations yourself, it's:

2xWx(A/100)+(Dx25.4)

Where:
W = tire width
A = aspect ratio (not expressed as a percentage)
D = diameter of the wheel

So:
2x225x(45/100)+(17x25.4)
(450x0.45)+431.8
202.5+431.8
= 634.3mm diameter of the 225/40-17

And:
2x235x(45/100)+(17x25.4)
(470x0.45)+431.8
211.5+431.8
= 643.3mm diameter of the 235/40-17

643.3-634.3 =9mm

Percentage of error:
9/634.3=0.014 or 1.4%

[edit] I included the calculation for overall tire diameter so those playing along on the sidelines can figure out how to calculate correct sizing for plus size wheels/tires
I created a fancy-shmancy spreadsheet a while ago that does everything form tire calcs, to wheel offset calcs, as well as the effects of camber changes on fitment. Math is fun
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2015, 05:07 PM   #31
Geo31
Ironman
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willis, TX, USA
Posts: 3,148
My Ride: 98 M-Z3, 01 325iT
Yeah, I've done the same. Takes no time at all.
__________________
George Roffe

Swim: 2.4 Miles
Bike: 112 Miles
Run: 26.2 Miles
Brag: For the rest of your life


Geo31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 11:49 AM   #32
YBimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 91
My Ride: 03 330iZHP/02 325XiT
Re-lipping these wheels to 19's with a stepped lip is possible, but would be quite the undertaking. Let me know if you find an interchangable barrel... because that would be awesome. Barrels would need to have the right bolt surface diameters and bolt hole pattern (unless you custom drill it).

Additionally, the center on these style 71s are front-mounted faces, so if you were to convert to 3-piece, you would have to machine the center so that they have a deeper recess to accommodate for the increased thickness of the lip and barrel (similar to this style 5 conversions: http://store.blackforestindustries.c...rcst517to.html).
"Faces are machined to provide a flat seat with the proper ledge allowing all forces to be equally distributed across the wheel, giving an OEM-level of strength. This process is necessary to prevent overloading the assembly hardware and avoid any potential issues."


Again, the notable difference between the Style 5 and Style 71 is that the Style 5 is sandwich mounted and the style 71 is front mounted. You could be making a "3 piece overhead disk" according to this picture:



If you want to investigate the conversion on a personal basis, I am sure you could contact Patrick Soares, from SpinTech, LLC. (http://spintechwheels.com/collection...pce-conversion)

I had a good amount of time to learn about wheels as well. I currently have a set of 18" Style 71s (Cromodoras), BBS RS211s, Style 5s, Style 19s, and 3-piece OZ Aero AMG Type 1s, and have had BBS RC303s and many others in the past.
YBimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 12:17 PM   #33
JJR4884
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 18,692
My Ride: BMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by trizzuth View Post
makes perfect sense now.. thanks for the hookup!!

Sent from my LS670 using BimmerApp mobile app
you didn't know that?

idiot

__________________
JJR4884 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 04:05 PM   #34
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by YBimmer View Post
Additionally, the center on these style 71s are front-mounted faces, so if you were to convert to 3-piece, you would have to machine the center so that they have a deeper recess to accommodate for the increased thickness of the lip and barrel (similar to this style 5 conversions: http://store.blackforestindustries.c...rcst517to.html).
"Faces are machined to provide a flat seat with the proper ledge allowing all forces to be equally distributed across the wheel, giving an OEM-level of strength. This process is necessary to prevent overloading the assembly hardware and avoid any potential issues."
So if I understand correctly, a Style 71 center could be mounted assembled in a "3 piece overhead disk" setup without machining, however, machining is performed to form a "ledge" for proper distribution of forces across the wheel? Would it be terribly unsafe to bolt it together in a "3 piece overhead disk" arrangement without machining? Unbalanced?
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 05:09 PM   #35
YBimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 91
My Ride: 03 330iZHP/02 325XiT
You could bolt it up, but it would be guaranteed to be unsafe.

If you mounted a separate lip and barrel, the lip would only seat safely in the recess of the center, the barrel would not. That means that any deflection could cause the bolts to sheer and catastrophic failure of the wheel. However, when the lip and barrel are seated into the machined recess (now made deeper because of machining), the loads are distributed to the wheel center and not merely to the rim bolts.

Let me know if that makes sense.
YBimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 05:18 PM   #36
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by YBimmer View Post
You could bolt it up, but it would be guaranteed to be unsafe.

If you mounted a separate lip and barrel, the lip would only seat safely in the recess of the center, the barrel would not. That means that any deflection could cause the bolts to sheer and catastrophic failure of the wheel. However, when the lip and barrel are seated into the machined recess (now made deeper because of machining), the loads are distributed to the wheel center and not merely to the rim bolts.

Let me know if that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense. In other words, the bolts are only there to provide tension (clamping the face, lip, and barrel together) and NOT shear (weight of the vehicle/bumps). Shear is to be provided by the face mating to the lip and barrel.

(well, now that I think about it, the bolts do provide some shear from braking and acceleration, but I assume this force isn't enough to cause failure).

Am I on the right track?
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 12:10 AM   #37
YBimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 91
My Ride: 03 330iZHP/02 325XiT
Bingo. You're on the right track.
YBimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 11:49 AM   #38
trizzuth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MA$$HOLE
Posts: 6,030
My Ride: 231k, 16yr old B3AST
Got em a week or ago! Absolutely 100% new and unused. Stamping on the barrel indicates they were made back in 2002. Must have been sitting in a warehouse for 13 years, untouched, kinda like a barn find! This guy I bought them from off of Craigslist had ECS tape on the Original BMW Boxes, so he must have bought them from there. I checked part number on their website and although they are listed, they are no longer in production and being sold, so I am not sure what he originally paid for them. I feel like I made out like a champ though, especially for untouched brand new OE 2 piece rare wheels in 17" x 8.5 that I've never really seen before. $500 plus two old Style 73's I had laying around he wanted for winters. Bomb. Going to put tires on these babies after winter and they might become my year round set. Or I will use my aftermarket 18's for winter instead of 17's, reverse winter setup! Have all seasons on the 18's so that shouldn't be a big deal and they are actually a tad skinnier tire as the wheels are 18 x 8" and tires are 225/40/18. These are made by a an Italian company called Cromodora, who manufactures wheels for Ferrari, Maserati, Fiat, Lancia, etc...





Here you can see small drill holes on the inner lip edge, most likely for 100% perfect balancing of each wheel as the holes are in different spots.




__________________
trizzuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 01:04 PM   #39
Flop
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: PDX
Posts: 404
My Ride: '04 330Ci 6MT
Wow. Incredible find and at an incredible price. Get some tires on them asap!
Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2016, 03:16 PM   #40
trizzuth
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MA$$HOLE
Posts: 6,030
My Ride: 231k, 16yr old B3AST
Just bumping my own thread so I can have this information later once I am all set to get tires:

Original size wheel/tire combo = Style 73's, 17 x 7 and take a 205/50/17 tire. 636.8mm overall wheel+tire diameter. Speedo at 30 = 30, at 60 = 60

Best Option for Style 71's, 17 x 8.5 = 235/45/17. 643.3 overall wheel+tire diameter. Speedo at 30 = 29.7mph, speedo at 60 = 59.39mph. Speedo error = -1.01%

Alternate option for Style 71's 17 x 8.5 = 245/40/17. 627.8mm overall wheel+tire diameter. Speedo at 30 = 30.43mph, speedo at 60 = 60.86mph. Speedo error = 1.43%
__________________
trizzuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use