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Old 03-31-2017, 05:54 PM   #1
pool0513
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Brake light always ON

Hello guys,

First of all, sorry for my English, I am french, and in advance thank you for any help you could provide me to help me fix my issue.

The issue :

2 weeks ago, a driver stopped me to tell me that my brake light are on all the time.
So i stopped and checked them, and he was right.

I noticed that my right tail light had some burned leds. So I thought that was the issue, so I ordered a new tail light.
Received the tail light, replaced the old one (DIY), the issue is still there...

So after reading a lot of post on the forum I noticed that a lot of people had the same issue, and replacing the brake switch did resolve the issue.

So I bought a new brake switch, replaced the old one (DIY), and the issue is still there,...

So to resume, when the car is off, the light are off.

When I turn the key, 2 or 3 second after the light (left, right and middle) are on and stay on no matter what I do.

All the leds or ok.

What I have done so far :
- Replaced right tail light because old one had burned leds
- Replaced brake pedal switch

My car is a BMW E46 Coupé 330 CD of 2006.

Here is the exact brake switch I bought : http://www.toutespiecesauto.fr/inter...-101-806-37596

Here is the exact tail light I bought : http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MD...Yqgrn/$_57.JPG

Anyone have an idea of what my issue can be ?
If you need anymore information, don't hesitate to ask for._a_

Last edited by pool0513; 04-12-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:50 PM   #2
Sicily1918
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OK, can you accidentally install the brake switch backwards (I'm asking because I don't know), so that 'on' is 'off'? If so, that could do it.

Also, what if you simply mis-installed the switch and didn't connect something? I'd check both of those things first.

Failing that, you might need to follow the connection from the switch up to the control unit and see if there's a break somewhere down the line.
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:04 PM   #3
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I know the stock tail lights had ground issues and you have aftermarket LED lights, but I'd look at the bundle of wires that go into the trunk lid. When they start breaking all kinds of problems can happen. On mine the ground for the trunk interior lights broke. Just an example.
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:43 PM   #4
pool0513
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thank you for your answers.

The switch is is installed well. When I try to put some metal in front of the switch (it's a hall effect switch), I can heard some kind of relay switching (clic-clac) somewhere under the hood (I think it's in the abs controleur, it's a square metallic piece that a have a lot of tubes going into, but when I do the same test while I am push the brake pedal, I can't hear that relay doing the clic-clac sound, like if the abs is able to not activate if the switch is activated but the brake pedal is not pushed).

If no other idea is coming up, I will follow the cables from the brake switch to their ending and from the tail light to there ending, cause this is long time work, and the minimum cable checks I already have done shows that they are ok.
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:21 PM   #5
pool0513
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help !

Hello all !

So I have new information about my issue.

I managed to buy a K+DCAN cable, and installed INPA on a laptop and started diagnose of my car.

When I check the brake light switch from the engine menu, I can see that it is off, and when I press the pedal it goes on. So the brake light switch is good !

Then I go to the LSZ menu from Body module, and I can see that the brake light switch is off, and even when I press the pedal, it stays off...
Even so the brake light stay on (the three of them).

Anyone have an idea about what can I do next ?

I will post screenshots of my INPA diagnostic, I didn't think about doing them when I was at the car.

And if someone knows any test I could do with INPA let me know please, cause I'm very new to this and I have done very basics with what I have been able to find on the internet.

Thank you

Last edited by pool0513; 04-11-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 04-06-2017, 04:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pool0513 View Post
When I check the brake light switch from the engine menu, I can see that it is off, and when I press the pedal it goes on. So the brake light switch is good !

Then I go to the LSZ menu from Body module, and I can see that the brake light switch is off, and even when I press the pedal, it stays off...
Even so the brake light stay on (the three of them).
OK, so there's no signal getting to the LSZ (bad cable), or the LSZ is bad.

Try re-coding your VIN to the LSZ and see if that works; I've heard others have similar issues with the module, and re-coding it fixed the problems...

If that doesn't work, you might need to replace the LSZ -- I would go to my local mechanic or junk-yard and see if I could pick up a used module to test.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:00 PM   #7
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Screenshots & update

Hello Guys !

So like I said before here is some screen of my tests :

When I go to the Engine menu :


I have this result when the brake pedal is released:


And as soon as I press the brake pedal here is the result :


When I go to the LSZ menu :


Don't matter if I press the brake pedal or not, I have this result :


(I'm not sure if this information are live here like in the engine, can someone confirm ?)

Like Sicily1918 have suggested I have recoded my VIN number to the LSZ, with no success, the brake light are still ON.
(I tried to factory default the LSZ with PaSoft but it throws this error : E=2, I haven't been able to find anything about this).

I actually have this software to test and code the car : INPA, ISTA-D, PaSoft, NCSExpert.

I also have been very surprised when I used PaSoft, because I have been able to see that the VIN of my EWS wasn't the same as my car's VIN. All the other module that have a VIN have my car's original one but not the EWS who got a series 5 VIN number.
And when I go diagnose with ISTA it detects my car as a E39/5 series while my car is a E46/3 series.
I think the previous owner have changed the EWS without proper coding, and after some search on google I understood that this EWS is controlling the security of the car, and if I miss with it maybe the key will not work anymore. And I have also read that it is coupled with DME.
So afraid to make some mistake I left it like that. (I say this because in PaSoft there is an option to wipe it, but I have to link pin 4 and 8 together and I have read that by doing this I will lose the key configuration and I will need an AK90 to program it again).


Is there some other tests I can try ?
I'm very newbie with this software, so any help to diagnose why my brake light won't turn off would be much appreciated.

Thank you guys

Last edited by pool0513; 04-11-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:05 PM   #8
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My money is on a defective brake light switch that was replaced, and the new switch is also defective or installed improperly.

With the brake light switch out of the car, there is a red collar that is an adjustment item. With the collar fully out (extended) put the switch into the car -- mount it to the brake pedal. When the pedal id depressed the first time, the collar will move and set the operation of the switch. If the red collar is pushed all of the way in, the switch will be activated at all times.

While using PA Soft, operate the brake pedal and observe that the input reported by the software changes state.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:46 PM   #9
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My money is on a defective brake light switch that was replaced, and the new switch is also defective or installed improperly.
OP: this is a definite possibility.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:21 AM   #10
pool0513
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Hello Guys,

If the brake switch is defective, why does INPA detects when I push the brake pedal ?

When I press the pedal, the brake light switch and the brake light test switch status on INPA turns blacksolid, which means that it is on. And when I release the pedal the brake light switch and the brake light test switch status on INPA turns solid white which means that the switch is off.

Look at the second and third screenshoot.

Am I wrong ?
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:12 PM   #11
e46alfonso
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The brake switch must be too close to the brake pedal. Make sure it isn't making contact with the brake pedal. Move it away a few clicks, I had the same problem.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:16 PM   #12
pool0513
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Originally Posted by e46alfonso View Post
The brake switch must be too close to the brake pedal. Make sure it isn't making contact with the brake pedal. Move it away a few clicks, I had the same problem.
Thank you for trying to help me, but I can assure you it's not the case.
In fact my brake switch is a hall effect switch.
It must contact the brake pedal to turn off the light.
And when there is no contact the brake light turn on.

Last edited by pool0513; 04-12-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:37 PM   #13
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Is there a red collar around the plunger of the switch? If yes, pull it out as far as you can. When the brake pedal is depressed. This collar sets the stop position of the switch when the pedal is in its Home Position.

Your Brake Light Switch is Item 11, here.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=35_0186


I would be surprised to find that it's a Hall Effect switch. This application is absolutely not a Hall Effect switch on the E36. It should be a simple mechanical switch that is held open when the brake pedal is at rest, and then the contacts close when the pedal is depressed.

I am certain that the proper adjustment is that the collar must be fully extended when the pedal is moved off of the switch, then when the pedal returns home for the first time, the collar is pushed in to set the depth of the switch operations. when the pedal is moved -- you step on the brake -- then the contacts inside are closed and the brake lights come on. If the collar is pushed in all of the way, the contacts remain closed at all times and the brake lights remain on.

You have 1.) a maladjusted switch, or 2.) a defective switch. If you can unplug the switch and the lights go off, then you know that the switch is the cause. If you have a digital volt meter, you can easily test the switch operations. Well, maybe "easily" is not accurate because there can be several pins that you have to find the right pair to test.

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Old 04-12-2017, 12:48 PM   #14
pool0513
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Originally Posted by jdstrickland View Post
Is there a red collar around the plunger of the switch? If yes, pull it out as far as you can. When the brake pedal is depressed. This collar sets the stop position of the switch when the pedal is in its Home Position.

Your Brake Light Switch is Item 11, here.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=35_0186


I would be surprised to find that it's a Hall Effect switch. This application is absolutely not a Hall Effect switch on the E36. It should be a simple mechanical switch that is held open when the brake pedal is at rest, and then the contacts close when the pedal is depressed.

I am certain that the proper adjustment is that the collar must be fully extended when the pedal is moved off of the switch, then when the pedal returns home for the first time, the collar is pushed in to set the depth of the switch operations. when the pedal is moved -- you step on the brake -- then the contacts inside are closed and the brake lights come on. If the collar is pushed in all of the way, the contacts remain closed at all times and the brake lights remain on.

You have 1.) a maladjusted switch, or 2.) a defective switch. If you can unplug the switch and the lights go off, then you know that the switch is the cause. If you have a digital volt meter, you can easily test the switch operations. Well, maybe "easily" is not accurate because there can be several pins that you have to find the right pair to test.
You are almost right !
The exact part number for my car is this one :
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...86#61316967601

And yes it's a hall effect switch I'm absolutely sure about that.
Google the part number (61316967601) you will see



And yes I have removed the switch cause like I said before it's the first part I thought it would be defective and I bought a new one.
In my car E46 330CD when there is no switch, the brake light stay on until the switch is replaced.
In my case, like I said before I'm sure that the switch is not the problem cause with INPA I can see that the switch is working correctly, see my previous post.

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Old 04-12-2017, 12:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pool0513 View Post
Hello Guys,

If the brake switch is defective, why does INPA detects when I push the brake pedal ?

When I press the pedal, the brake light switch and the brake light test switch status on INPA turns blacksolid, which means that it is on. And when I release the pedal the brake light switch and the brake light test switch status on INPA turns solid white which means that the switch is off.

Look at the second and third screenshoot.

Am I wrong ?


Sorry, I missed this post.

You are correct that if INPA sees the brake switch go on and off, then you should have a properly functioning switch. The Bentley Manual schematics for the E46 are horrible, everything is a box and you cannot see how the circuits actually work.

With the complicated electronics and the "black box" schematic, it is very difficult to troubleshoot the car.

I assume you are using a helper to press and release the brake pedal so you can directly observe the lights on the back of the car. You should test for proper brake light activity with the running lights both on and off. You can have a stray voltage that changes when other lights are operated. It can appear that the brake lights are on, when they are on dimly at times, then on bright when the pedal is depressed. Or, the running lights might go off when the brakes are applied. The results of tests like this are a clue.

For a Frenchman that does not speak English, you are doing pretty good.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:00 PM   #16
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Color me surprised, that certainly looks like a hall effect switch.

This means that the magnet on the pedal might be missing. No, that can't be true because you report that INPA changes the display when the pedal is depressed.

Another thing that is complicated is that the brake light circuits pass through the main lighting switch. Your main light switch can be the problem, not the brake pedal switch. Again, the schematics do not give enough information to make a diagnostic program to test the lighting switch. Wires go into an empty box with pin numbers assigned, but there is no way to trace the connections inside of the empty box to see where the problems might be.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:04 PM   #17
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Try to lift the brakes up with the top of your foot and see what happens.
My lights turned off when I did that
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:10 PM   #18
pool0513
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Try to lift the brakes up with the top of your foot and see what happens.
My lights turned off when I did that
That's the first thing I tried

But as I said, if INPA is able to detected when I press the pedal that the brake light switch is changing position, that means that the switch is not the problem
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:16 PM   #19
pool0513
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Color me surprised, that certainly looks like a hall effect switch.

This means that the magnet on the pedal might be missing. No, that can't be true because you report that INPA changes the display when the pedal is depressed.

Another thing that is complicated is that the brake light circuits pass through the main lighting switch. Your main light switch can be the problem, not the brake pedal switch. Again, the schematics do not give enough information to make a diagnostic program to test the lighting switch. Wires go into an empty box with pin numbers assigned, but there is no way to trace the connections inside of the empty box to see where the problems might be.
For you to know, there is no magnet on the pedal. It's just the metal of the pedal that make the switch go on or off
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #20
pool0513
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Hello Guys,

Just to let you know, I ordered a new LCM.
I hope it will solve my problem.

I will update the thread as soon is I get it installed.
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