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Old 04-09-2017, 05:31 PM   #61
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Wag the Dog:

"In both cases – 2013 and 2017 – there were strong reasons to doubt Assad’s responsibility. In 2013, he had just invited United Nations inspectors into Syria to investigate cases of alleged rebel use of chemical weapons and thus it made no sense that he would launch a sarin attack in the Damascus suburbs, guaranteeing that the U.N. inspectors would be diverted to that case.

Similarly, now, Assad’s military has gained a decisive advantage over the rebels and he had just scored a major diplomatic victory with the Trump administration’s announcement that the U.S. was no longer seeking “regime change” in Syria. The savvy Assad would know that a chemical weapon attack now would likely result in U.S. retaliation and jeopardize the gains that his military has achieved with Russian and Iranian help.

The counter-argument to this logic – made by The New York Times and other neocon-oriented news outlets – essentially maintains that Assad is a crazed barbarian who was testing out his newfound position of strength by baiting President Trump. Of course, if that were the case, it would have made sense that Assad would have boasted of his act, rather than deny it.

But logic and respect for facts no longer prevail inside Official Washington, nor inside the mainstream U.S. news media."

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/04/0...he-dog-moment/


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Old 04-10-2017, 09:37 AM   #62
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Don't you find killing people who pose you no threat for merely political gain is wrong?

Or using tax dollars to kill people who are no threat?

Or launching a military strike based on witness statements who have a vested interest in the outcome?
Generally yes.

However, there are some instances where basic humanity and moral obligation trump the whole "direct threat to us" issue. I know this is a slippery slope but the U.S. is for better or worse, the only supper power in the world and as such, has to from time to time, intervene in situations that may not pose a direct threat to the U.S.

The whole world (major powers) all agreed that the use of certain types of weapons would not be tolerated a long time ago. I'm no Trump supporter, but its not like he's pushing for a major incursion/boots on the ground/regime change (yet).

A targeted strike to send a message to both friends and foes was a good move imo.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:28 AM   #63
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Generally yes.

However, there are some instances where basic humanity and moral obligation trump the whole "direct threat to us" issue. I know this is a slippery slope but the U.S. is for better or worse, the only supper power in the world and as such, has to from time to time, intervene in situations that may not pose a direct threat to the U.S.

The whole world (major powers) all agreed that the use of certain types of weapons would not be tolerated a long time ago. I'm no Trump supporter, but its not like he's pushing for a major incursion/boots on the ground/regime change (yet).

A targeted strike to send a message to both friends and foes was a good move imo.
Then to avoid the appearance of a double standard, by that argument, we should be shooting missiles at many countries around the world both present day and in the past since WW2:

-Stalin killed 20 million of his own people
-Cambodian government kill 1.3 million in the mid 70's\
-Huthus kill thousands of Tutsis and vice-versa in Ruwanda and Bill C. does nothing
-Kim Jong Un and his predecessors have starved millions of Koreans to death
-Saudi Arabia is indiscriminately bombing Yemeni civilians
-etc, etc, etc. ad infinitum.

I guess that's my problem with that argument - we could list "genocides" of civilians that the US has ignored for decades (not to mention the 200 civilians killed in just one US airstrike in Mosul recently - widely disputed but reported nonetheless - Should Russia launch Kalibre missiles at Raytheon in Tucson where the Tomahawks are made?). Why is this President different? Why should he be able to go to war in our name without our consent (i.e. Congressional approval)?

I don't think anyone is advocating for intervening in "every" mass killing of civilians, are they?

Speaking of banned weapons: depleted Uranium is bad s***. The EPA would go ballistic if the US Military was shooting that stuff on bombing ranges in the US. The rounds are perfectly safe sitting in a magazine on an A-10 but once it's fired and vaporized it becomes airborne and liable to be ingested or inhaled... by the civilians who are left alive.

It's a persistent toxin that has a looooooong radioactive half life. And, of course, it's being used in Syria and Iraq. (Remember "Gulf War Syndrome" that still has no known cause but very real effects?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

So if it's so bad that it's banned from being used on US soil why is it ok to use it in other countries?
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:42 AM   #64
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US MISSILE STRIKE on Syria : Here we go!

^because everyone likes to blow shjts up but just not in our backyard.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:56 AM   #65
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^because everyone likes to blow shjts up but just not in our backyard.
Fine. Blow it up. Especially the bad guys.

Just don't use weapons that cause birth defects decades after they're fired.
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:07 PM   #66
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Fine. Blow it up. Especially the bad guys.

Just don't use weapons that cause birth defects decades after they're fired.
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:31 PM   #67
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:47 PM   #68
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He seems upset.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:02 PM   #69
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He seems upset.


That's upset to you?

Are you a Snowflake? Sheesh grow a pair. (Unless you're being facetious?)

Very intelligent and articulate argument!

(I realize his rant wasn't peer reviewed or annotated but all his arguments are at least plausible.)
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:23 PM   #70
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That's upset to you?

Are you a Snowflake? Sheesh grow a pair. (Unless you're being facetious?)

Very intelligent and articulate argument!

(I realize his rant wasn't peer reviewed or annotated but all his arguments are at least plausible.)
You seem upset.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:06 PM   #71
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You seem upset.


Lol. Touché!
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:44 PM   #72
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You seem upset.
Perfect :-)
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:00 PM   #73
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While gassing children is all kinds of fvcked up, nothing good will come from destabilizing a secular muslim government leaving the door wide open to a guaranteed radical muslim to take over, and we have yet another serious problem to deal with. Once a muslim nation loses its secularism (ie Iran, Turkey, etc) they become basically a terror state. IMHO, it was a mistake on Trump's part. Poor judgement, and a kneejerk reaction to his feels.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:03 PM   #74
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While gassing children is all kinds of fvcked up, nothing good will come from destabilizing a secular muslim government leaving the door wide open to a guaranteed radical muslim to take over, and we have yet another serious problem to deal with. Once a muslim nation loses its secularism (ie Iran, Turkey, etc) they become basically a terror state. IMHO, it was a mistake on Trump's part. Poor judgement, and a kneejerk reaction to his feels.


Whomever gassed the children is still an open question.

Time will show that knee-jerk reactions are often wrong.


But I agree, gassing children in order to provoke a response is all kinds of fvcjed up.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:35 PM   #75
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Having said that, to be honest, it's just the method. Americans are often repulsed and disgusted that Asians eat dogs and Canadians eat horses....and when asked why, they can't give you a decent answer. For some reason, people feel bad about THESE kids, but couldn't give any less fvcks about all the other kids all over the planet dying en masse daily at the hands of scumbag leaders. This is why people that are in charge of military operations need to be "dead inside" (like Quinn from Homeland.) Only then can you make a REAL rational decision.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:04 PM   #76
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Having said that, to be honest, it's just the method. Americans are often repulsed and disgusted that Asians eat dogs and Canadians eat horses....and when asked why, they can't give you a decent answer. For some reason, people feel bad about THESE kids, but couldn't give any less fvcks about all the other kids all over the planet dying en masse daily at the hands of scumbag leaders. This is why people that are in charge of military operations need to be "dead inside" (like Quinn from Homeland.) Only then can you make a REAL rational decision.
It's like when everyone freaked out about those girls in Africa that were kidnapped. Where are they now? We've all moved on to other outrages du jour.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/opinio...s-one-year-on/

Article is two years old.

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Old 04-10-2017, 11:57 PM   #77
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For some reason I don't think Assad did it. Seems like it was done by someone that has an interest in having Assad removed (radical islamists) and provoke a reaction from the US. Amazing the US didn't learn from Iraq.


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Old 04-11-2017, 10:19 AM   #78
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nothing good will come from destabilizing a secular muslim government leaving the door wide open to a guaranteed radical muslim to take over, and we have yet another serious problem to deal with. Once a muslim nation loses its secularism (ie Iran, Turkey, etc) they become basically a terror state. IMHO, it was a mistake on Trump's part. Poor judgement, and a kneejerk reaction to his feels.
I think that ship sailed six years ago.

Jumping the gun a little on Turkey, but your point is taken.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:33 AM   #79
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I think that ship sailed six years ago.

Jumping the gun a little on Turkey, but your point is taken.
Assad is fairly secular, especially when compared to his neighbors.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:14 AM   #80
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Assad is fairly secular, especially when compared to his neighbors.
I agreed, but I was referring to the "destabilizing" part of your statement.
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