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Old 04-10-2017, 02:56 PM   #21
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Contempt of Chicago Cop usually results in the Death Penalty.

This guy got off easy.


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Old 04-10-2017, 03:01 PM   #22
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They'll try to settle with him via $150 travel voucher.

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Old 04-10-2017, 03:01 PM   #23
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That video is so dramatic and then the lady shouting Oh my god! lmfao
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:09 PM   #24
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Lawfully, though, isn't the pilot the final word on who stays or goes?


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Old 04-10-2017, 03:18 PM   #25
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Lawfully, though, isn't the pilot the final word on who stays or goes?


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Yeah, but he/she/zhe/it doesn't have time to deal with that ****, so the flight attendants do it. Passengers have to listen to the orders of a flight attendant by federal law.

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Old 04-10-2017, 03:18 PM   #26
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After doing a bit of homework on this, I'm inclined to say that he probably doesn't have all that strong of a case in court. In the court of public opinion? That might be a different story. But if the passenger agreement states that United can bump a passenger unilaterally at any time, and he refuses to honor that provision, then it sounds to me like his continued presence on the plane was wrongful and United was in the right (legally) to have him forcibly removed. The optics are terrible, but I dunno about actionable.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:21 PM   #27
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Lawfully, though, isn't the pilot the final word on who stays or goes?


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https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/you...luntary-bumps/

Will be interesting to see how this plays out with all the publicity this is getting.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:23 PM   #28
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After doing a bit of homework on this, I'm inclined to say that he probably doesn't have all that strong of a case in court. In the court of public opinion? That might be a different story. But if the passenger agreement states that United can bump a passenger unilaterally at any time, and he refuses to honor that provision, then it sounds to me like his continued presence on the plane was wrongful and United was in the right (legally) to have him forcibly removed. The optics are terrible, but I dunno about actionable.
This, see my previous post.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:59 PM   #29
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How funny is this, I just got off the phone with my attorney, long-time-friend (not a billable call ), and he was just saying the same thing... But according to him, you're low by a factor of ten. With the publicity he's getting, and the embarrassment for United after their leggings fiasco a few days ago, a sympathetic jury can really opt to teach them a lesson right about now...


You are right. I didn't factor in the fact that everyone in the country saw him get dragged off a plane for no reason. He could even claim that the embarrassment ruined his practice. Early retirement ftw.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:02 PM   #30
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Yeah, but he/she/zhe/it doesn't have time to deal with that ****, so the flight attendants do it. Passengers have to listen to the orders of a flight attendant by federal law.

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Citation? You was under the impression that safety orders must be listened to, not anything that comes out of their mouth. I've argued many a time with uninformed flight crew and security crew who have no clue about their own rules.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:03 PM   #31
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https://www.theatlantic.com/business...al-law/522552/

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the United video serves as a stark metaphor, one where the quiet brutalization of consumers is rendered in shocking, literal form. The first thought that I had watching the outrageous footage of a passenger being dragged through an aisle like a bag of trash was that this should never happen. But fundamentally, this is an old story: Companies in concentrated industries, like the airlines, have legal cover to break the most basic promise to consumers without legally breaking their contracts.
Welcome to the airline industry.

UAL stock is up 0.9% today.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:05 PM   #32
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You are right. I didn't factor in the fact that everyone in the country saw him get dragged off a plane for no reason.
Debateable.

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He could even claim that the embarrassment ruined his practice. Early retirement ftw.


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He can claim whatever he wants. He'd still have to prove it and then plead and prove damages.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:07 PM   #33
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https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/you...luntary-bumps/



Will be interesting to see how this plays out with all the publicity this is getting.


Interesting, but legally speaking, the contract states they have the right to deny boarding. The guy was already boarded and sitting, therefore, the airline closed the contract loop on themselves by allowing him to board the aircraft. Having a seating system also allows the airline to know when it overlooks a flight, ergo, it would be hard to argue in court that you didn't know you needed the seat etc. Furthermore, I'm not sure how enforceable that would be in court, as there are many consumer guidelines the METHOD of selling tickets violates in the context of this bumping rule. I highly doubt it would get thrown out of court and out of those few thousand that get bumped, I'd be willing to bet anyone that retains council and files a suit gets "get lost" money.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:07 PM   #34
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get dragged off a plane for no reason.
Except there was a reason. A United employee told him to get off the plane. He didn't. They're legally covered to drag him off kicking and screaming. It's a sad reality, but reality nonetheless.

Read the link I posted earlier. It references United's carriage agreement which basically says they can do what they want.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:10 PM   #35
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Except there was a reason. A United employee told him to get off the plane. He didn't. They're legally covered to drag him off kicking and screaming. It's a sad reality, but reality nonetheless.



Read the link I posted earlier. It references United's carriage agreement which basically says they can do what they want.


And read my above post. I've seen MANY contracts poorly written by large companies that clearly and easily violate numerous consumer protections.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:14 PM   #36
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But in this case, the passenger was already onboard and the airline wanted to take him back off, presumably in order to put another passenger in his seat. Does United have the right to do that? Yes, because Rule 25(A)2(b) of United’s Contract of Carriage gives its boarding priority rules:

The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
United gave higher boarding priority to their employees, simple as that.

Also, it would be silly for airlines not to have legal protections for kicking someone off a flight for any reason.

Again,
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We spoke to Alexander Bachuwa, a New York attorney who has written for TPG in the past on legal issues regarding travel. “The bottom line is that airlines hold the power to deny someone boarding and to remove someone from the flight,” Bachuwa told us. “The legal issue may be whether the police used unnecessary force in dealing with the situation. I highly doubt they will be held liable. The passenger was asked to leave and did not, as bad as that sounds.”
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:14 PM   #37
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Interesting, but legally speaking, the contract states they have the right to deny boarding. The guy was already boarded and sitting, therefore, the airline closed the contract loop on themselves by allowing him to board the aircraft. Having a seating system also allows the airline to know when it overlooks a flight, ergo, it would be hard to argue in court that you didn't know you needed the seat etc. Furthermore, I'm not sure how enforceable that would be in court, as there are many consumer guidelines the METHOD of selling tickets violates in the context of this bumping rule. I highly doubt it would get thrown out of court and out of those few thousand that get bumped, I'd be willing to bet anyone that retains council and files a suit gets "get lost" money.


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Did you read the whole thing, it addresses the fact that he was already in the plane.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:14 PM   #38
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United gave higher boarding priority to their employees, simple as that.

Also, it would be silly for airlines not to have legal protections for kicking someone off a flight for any reason.

Again,
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Did you read the whole thing, it addresses the fact that he was already in the plane.
This
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:20 PM   #39
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United gave higher boarding priority to their employees, simple as that.



Also, it would be silly for airlines not to have legal protections for kicking someone off a flight for any reason.



Again,


Again, this violates consumer protections. If you don't allow people to cancel on you and get their money back, you cannot do it to them. The airline took his money for the seat. It is HIS seat. He was allowed to board and sit in said seat. You cannot kick people off planes trains buses etc for ANY reason. Many reasons but not ANY reason.

Furthermore, the kicker (which makes their stupid contract null in this case) is that they let him back on the flight.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:23 PM   #40
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Did you read the whole thing, it addresses the fact that he was already in the plane.


No it doesn't. That was a statement by the writer, not in the rules. Their rules only state they can deny boarding based on class, priority, etc etc. it says nothing about being removed from the plane.


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