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Old 04-10-2017, 04:29 PM   #41
jeffro3000
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Again, this violates consumer protections. If you don't allow people to cancel on you and get their money back, you cannot do it to them. The airline took his money for the seat. It is HIS seat. He was allowed to board and sit in said seat. You cannot kick people off planes trains buses etc for ANY reason. Many reasons but not ANY reason.

Furthermore, the kicker (which makes their stupid contract null in this case) is that they let him back on the flight.


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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...tm_source=fbia

I wish you the best of luck with your complaint.

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:30 PM   #42
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Citation? You was under the impression that safety orders must be listened to, not anything that comes out of their mouth. I've argued many a time with uninformed flight crew and security crew who have no clue about their own rules.


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It literally says it on the back of the safety card.

"Federal law requires passenger compliance with all signs, placards, and crew member instructions."

The crew members have the authority to enforce what goes in inside the aircraft, and the pilot has the final say in what actually happens. 14 CFR § 91.3(a).

You can argue with a flight attendant all you want, but if they're not going to budge on an issue, it's best to just leave it alone. The pilot isn't going to be taking your side.

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:34 PM   #43
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It literally says it on the back of the safety card.

"Federal law requires passenger compliance with all signs, placards, and crew member instructions."

The crew members have the authority to enforce what goes in inside the aircraft, and the pilot has the final say in what actually happens. You can argue with a flight attendant all you want, but if they're not going to budge on an issue, it's best to just leave it alone.

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That's exactly what I said. I said when it comes to safety rules, yes. However, not everything they say is an order, that was my point.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:35 PM   #44
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No it doesn't. That was a statement by the writer, not in the rules. Their rules only state they can deny boarding based on class, priority, etc etc. it says nothing about being removed from the plane.


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Reread post 36.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:35 PM   #45
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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...tm_source=fbia

I wish you the best of luck with your complaint.

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Arbitration is usually better for the consumer since it is far less costly that being dragged through a trial with a Goliath like United.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:36 PM   #46
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That's exactly what I said. I said when it comes to safety rules, yes. However, not everything they say is an order, that was my point.


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No, with literally anything pertaining to the operation of the plane, and that's a very broad term.

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:38 PM   #47
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That's exactly what I said. I said when it comes to safety rules, yes. However, not everything they say is an order, that was my point.


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Having too many people on a plane seems like a safety issue, and ordering someone off the plane so as to comply with the safety rules seems like a defensible order.

Anyway: after the initial shock and brouhaha over this, it seems like most of the online analysis is lining up in favor of United and against the passenger. I will be curious to see how this all shakes out, although I think you're right that this will get settled and go away in short order and we'll never find out the outcome.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:40 PM   #48
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No, with literally anything pertaining to the operation of the plane, and that's a very broad term.

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I've had flight attendants tell me that my camera bag is too large for carryon. I argued with them that it isn't, it is a tsa approved universal carryon size as well as fits through the airlines own carryon size tester thing at check in. After checking with her supervisor she backed down.


And some quick browsing.....

Quote:
A DOT rule (14 C.F.R. §250) requires airlines to properly inform and compensate passengers who are bumped involuntarily. Air carriers are required to establish and disclose boarding priority rules and criteria for determining which passengers shall be denied boarding on an oversold flight. Boarding priority criteria may include factors such as a passenger’s time of check-in, the fare paid, and passenger’s frequent flyer status.33
Everything I read on the issue has the magic word "boarding." Once you're on the plane you are no longer boarding and can't be denied something you've already completed.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:40 PM   #49
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Arbitration is usually better for the consumer since it is far less costly that being dragged through a trial with a Goliath like United.


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Great! So you'll have more money left over after you lose.

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:42 PM   #50
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And some quick browsing.....



Everything I read on the issue has the magic word "boarding." Once you're on the plane you are no longer boarding and can't be denied something you've already completed.


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Maybe you can volunteer one of the lawyers in your family to pursue that line of argument at trial, either pro bono or on contingency.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:42 PM   #51
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Reread post 36.


Still see nothing about the passenger being on the plane already.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:43 PM   #52
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Having too many people on a plane seems like a safety issue, and ordering someone off the plane so as to comply with the safety rules seems like a defensible order.

Anyway: after the initial shock and brouhaha over this, it seems like most of the online analysis is lining up in favor of United and against the passenger. I will be curious to see how this all shakes out, although I think you're right that this will get settled and go away in short order and we'll never find out the outcome.
NFR has a lawyer in the family so your background as a lawyer is invalid.

And I agree the passenger will most likely get a settlement because the internet and media have already decided United is guilty.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:43 PM   #53
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Maybe you can volunteer one of the lawyers in your family to pursue that line of argument at trial, either pro bono or on contingency.


I'm sure there will be no shortage of lawyers eager to take this on contingency. Again, the fact that they let him back on negates all their arguments.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #54
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I'm sure there will be no shortage of lawyers eager to take this on contingency. Again, the fact that they let him back on negates all their arguments.


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Actually, the fact that they let him back on is probably not even admissible as evidence at trial.

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #55
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still see nothing about the passenger being on the plane already.


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Quote:
we spoke to alexander bachuwa, a new york attorney who has written for tpg in the past on legal issues regarding travel. "the bottom line is that airlines hold the power to deny someone boarding and to remove someone from the flight," bachuwa told us. "the legal issue may be whether the police used unnecessary force in dealing with the situation. I highly doubt they will be held liable. The passenger was asked to leave and did not, as bad as that sounds."
remove someone from the flight
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:46 PM   #56
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I've had flight attendants tell me that my camera bag is too large for carryon. I argued with them that it isn't, it is a tsa approved universal carryon size as well as fits through the airlines own carryon size tester thing at check in. After checking with her supervisor she backed down.


And some quick browsing.....



Everything I read on the issue has the magic word "boarding." Once you're on the plane you are no longer boarding and can't be denied something you've already completed.


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This is an entirely different thing. Boarding and being on the plane, particularly after the cabin door haa closed, have different levels of enforcement

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Old 04-10-2017, 04:48 PM   #57
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This is an entirely different thing. Boarding and being on the plane, particularly after the cabin door haa closed, have different levels of enforcement

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No arguments there.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:49 PM   #58
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remove someone from the flight


Yes the airlines have the authority to remove someone off the flight, however, again, the distinction being for ANY reason. They cannot remove someone for ANY reason.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:51 PM   #59
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Actually, the fact that the let him on is probably not even admissible as evidence at trial.


Curious as to why? It shows that the entire ordeal was not necessary and the man was injured and put through that whole situation for seemingly no reason whatsoever.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:51 PM   #60
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Yes the airlines have the authority to remove someone off the flight, however, again, the distinction being for ANY reason. They cannot remove someone for ANY reason.


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And United had a reason in this case.
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