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Old 04-10-2017, 04:51 PM   #61
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Found a pic of NFR
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:52 PM   #62
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NFR has a lawyer in the family so your background as a lawyer is invalid.



And I agree the passenger will most likely get a settlement because the internet and media have already decided United is guilty.


It their bumping power is limited and has specific guidelines. Now, if you want to argue who has the biggest meat on the bone in a lawsuit, united or the cops, that's one thing, but the fact is, this guy is getting paid, and paid well.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:54 PM   #63
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And United had a reason in this case.


According to the DOT travel rules, the passenger must be well informed of why he is getting involuntarily bumped and it *seems* that this is supposed to be done prior to boarding.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:54 PM   #64
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Curious as to why? It shows that the entire ordeal was not necessary and the man was injured and put through that whole situation for seemingly no reason whatsoever.


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United handled this like buffoons, no doubt. But no matter how many times you declare they had no reason, or you don't agree with their reason, that doesn't change the fact that they had a reason. United and every other airline does this exact same thing all of the time. The only difference here is the passenger freaked out. That doesn't mean there was no reason to remove him.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:57 PM   #65
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United handled this like buffoons, no doubt. But no matter how many times you declare they had no reason, or you don't agree with their reason, that doesn't change the fact that they had a reason. United and every other airline does this exact same thing all of the time. The only difference here is the passenger freaked out. That doesn't mean there was no reason to remove him.


Bumping is generally done at the gate/check in. I do not believe it is done from inside the plane, but I'm not 100% on that obviously as I don't work for an airline. Having said that I have two friends (one works for delta and one for JetBlue) that I asked just out of curiosity. Will be interested to hear back.


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Old 04-10-2017, 04:57 PM   #66
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Thousands of people per year. Airlines can legally get away with it, so they do it.

The laws around this probably need to provide for harsher penalties for the airline when they overbook and have to kick someone, but right now airlines can get off easy and enjoy record profits.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:58 PM   #67
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According to the DOT travel rules, the passenger must be well informed of why he is getting involuntarily bumped and it *seems* that this is supposed to be done prior to boarding.


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No offense, but you are doing a lot of "seeming" and conjecturing in this thread. I am betting United did nothing wrong legally, and any legal liability here it is with the cop(s) that took the man off the plane. If this passenger gets anything from United, it will be hush money via a civil lawsuit settlement, not via a judgment against them.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:59 PM   #68
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Thousands of people per year. Airlines can legally get away with it, so they do it.

The laws around this probably need to provide for harsher penalties for the airline when they overbook and have to kick someone, but right now airlines can get off easy and enjoy record profits.


Again, yes I agree with you bumping and overbooking is legal and is done to thousands of people a year. However the process is fairly narrow and must be done in a very particular way. I see nothing that allows airlines to throw people off a plane, in fact, I posted earlier what reads to be the opposite. Kicking off a passenger already on the plane doesn't seem to be "well informing". They also need to attempt to rebook you another flight or put you on a partner flight, inform you about the compensation etc. Seems unlikely this can happen inside an aircraft.


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Old 04-10-2017, 05:01 PM   #69
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No offense, but you are doing a lot of "seeming" and conjecturing in this thread. I am betting United did nothing wrong legally, and any legal liability here it is with the cop(s) that took the man off the plane. If this passenger gets anything from United, it will be hush money via a civil lawsuit settlement, not via a judgment against them.


Well duh, I said it would be get lost money. As for doing something wrong legally, we can revisit this in a little while when things settle in.


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Old 04-10-2017, 05:01 PM   #70
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Curious as to why? It shows that the entire ordeal was not necessary and the man was injured and put through that whole situation for seemingly no reason whatsoever.


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It's a public policy thing: if people could have their remedial acts held against them at trial, nobody would ever seek to remediate any harm. That's the same reason why offers to settle are generally inadmissible as well--they would suggest that the party had admitted fault and then the case would be blown. If that were the case, nobody would have incentive to settle.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:04 PM   #71
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Thousands of people per year. Airlines can legally get away with it, so they do it.

The laws around this probably need to provide for harsher penalties for the airline when they overbook and have to kick someone, but right now airlines can get off easy and enjoy record profits.
I think the law should require that the airline "auction" the seats to volunteers, i.e., they have to keep increasing their offer until they have the required number of volunteers. Let supply and demand dictate the results.

I posted earlier that based on a bumping experience I had last year that I believe the FAA caps the amount that airlines can pay, hence why all of the legal codes quoted here and on the internet reference, e.g., "200% of the fare up to a maximum of $400." That suggests the airlines are prohibited from paying passengers more, and that certainly is the explanation I got from Southwest. I still cannot confirm that the laws include strict compensation caps or not.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:07 PM   #72
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Found a pic of NFR
I pictured NFR as a brunette, but I have to agree - that haircut contains an encyclopedia of information about the personality standing under it.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:08 PM   #73
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Again, yes I agree with you bumping and overbooking is legal and is done to thousands of people a year. However the process is fairly narrow and must be done in a very particular way. I see nothing that allows airlines to throw people off a plane, in fact, I posted earlier what reads to be the opposite. Kicking off a passenger already on the plane doesn't seem to be "well informing".
Every single person on that plane was well informed. They went through the whole rigmarole of asking for volunteers, then announcing and having a computer-generated random lottery to pick the people who would have to go. Do you think the guy who got randomly picked would have leaped to the defense of another passenger if it turned out he wasn't chosen to go? Hard to say, but I'm going to go with "no."
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They also need to attempt to rebook you another flight or put you on a partner flight, inform you about the compensation etc. Seems unlikely this can happen inside an aircraft.
Do you have a citation for these responsibilities? Are we sure that none of these things happened or were going to happen? It seems like most of those things would/should take place after the passenger has calmly and politely left the airplane like a responsible adult.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:14 PM   #74
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That cap is total BS.

My time per hour is well north of $400, if I am being inconvenienced. I'm sure the airlines wrote that rule themselves.


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Old 04-10-2017, 05:16 PM   #75
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https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...age.aspx#sec25
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Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily

For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger's first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger's Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger's original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger's Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger's original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger's first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:19 PM   #76
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$1350 max.

"But if your new arrival time is within one to two hours for domestic flights or one to four hours for international, the carrier must pay 200% what you paid for your ticket (but only one-way, not the full-return price). Sadly, that caps at $675.
If your alternative travel*arrangements involve arriving at your destination more than two hours later than originally scheduled on domestic flights, or four hours on international, then the carrier is obligated to pay you 400% of your ticket (again, one-way only). That also has cap, with a maximum of $1,350.
Remember: The airline owes you another flight. And if you don't like the alternative they're offering you, it is within your rights to ask for an "involuntary refund" on your airfare so that you can make plans for yourself"


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https://apple.news/AMDaUvvxhRiS01BlEUlqWog

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Old 04-10-2017, 05:22 PM   #77
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That cap is total BS.

My time per hour is well north of $400, if I am being inconvenienced. I'm sure the airlines wrote that rule themselves.


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I agree about the cap. As an aside, the cap is different under different circumstances (e.g., how long the passenger has to wait to reach his destination, etc.). It occurs to me the rules are written with a wink of the airlines' eyes and perhaps Southwest played me like a drum since they had that pre-printed paper reciting the rules and the cap.

Speaking of rules and caps, read this piece about a travel writer who volunteered to give up her family's three Delta seats a few days ago when Delta was slammed with weather issues, and she wrote how she was able to accumulate $11,000 (!) in cash, etc. by negotiating with Delta. Either the exact circumstances in the Delta case (weather versus crew shortage) allowed (or required?) Delta to solve their problem differently than United did, or the cap on compensation is bogus. Hard to tell.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabe.../#492c81fc4de1
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:25 PM   #78
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I'm still waiting for someone to post something in support of the notion that United did something legally wrong here in choosing to boot the dude off the plane. All I'm seeing are articles and guides that suggest the opposite.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:28 PM   #79
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I'm still waiting for someone to post something in support of the notion that United did something legally wrong here in choosing to boot the dude off the plane. All I'm seeing are articles and guides that suggest the opposite.
Lol, do you have NFR's posts blocked or something?

I believe the only difference in this case and the thousands before is that this guy freaked out (and of course everybody videos everything these days). It really looks like the passenger is/was mentally unstable, and that fact was the match that started the fire.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:34 PM   #80
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Lol, do you have NFR's posts blocked or something?
I was hoping that someone might post something that had some actual citations/support--like actual articles or commentaries or something.
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