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Old 04-11-2017, 11:03 PM   #21
Spannerhead
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If you're willing to haggle I assume you're not locked in to a ZHP but are just looking for a manual 330?

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/6084750626.html
https://huntsville.craigslist.org/cto/6083852548.html
https://huntsville.craigslist.org/cto/6079091459.html (325 but wow)
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:06 PM   #22
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Well I'd only consider haggling because of the condition and the color combo. And I'm torn between a ZHP or a touring. And of course an E36 or E46 M. Too many great cars b


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Old 04-11-2017, 11:28 PM   #23
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Idk if its a zhp or not but its a clean car. price seems normal for my area. plus now you dont have to spend money on any mods

135k non zhp was 7k in my area, includes whole front end being repainted from being in an accident too
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:32 PM   #24
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I'd buy that in a heartbeat... that car (regardless of not being a zhp) was tastefully modded. This is exactly where i'd draw the line of buying a car that has been modded, and I really think it was done right. Add an M-tech bumper and that car is near perfect. If the previous owner(s) was half as good with maintenance as modding, its probably still in really good shape.

However unfortunately I don't think the market supports that price. Nice or not, the car is not stock. The mirrors might not work, not everyone does the motor swap from the 6/12 pin to the ribbon. Front bumper might be aftermarket, hard to tell from pics, and, although the rims are nice those are $1600 rims. "S788 BMW LA wheel, Individual" to my knowledge means they came with OEM 18 in Style 71 which are 2 piece and gorgeous. BBS reps look really nice but this car came with close to $3000 rims from the factory. If memory serves me correctly BMW charges $700ish a wheel depending on front or rear. These aren't necessarily bad things however can be used for leverage when purchasing.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:07 AM   #25
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Very good point. Again I'm just wanting to hear opinions. Are zhps that much better than a 330i or 330ci with a sport pack and manual? I know the steering rack is from the M3 and some suspension bits here and there but are they really worth the premium people are asking for now a days?


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Old 04-12-2017, 02:15 AM   #26
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Very good point. Again I'm just wanting to hear opinions. Are zhps that much better than a 330i or 330ci with a sport pack and manual? I know the steering rack is from the M3 and some suspension bits here and there but are they really worth the premium people are asking for now a days?


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Someone on here once said something along the lines of "is it really worth it to pay a couple thousand dollar premium for 300 RPM, 10 BHP, a fuzzy steering wheel and some fuzzy seats?" If you ask me, most ZHP's really aren't worth the extra couple thousand that most ask for them. I consistently see high mileage (over 100K) ZHP's for north of $9K. A nice ZSP, ZPP 330i or 330Ci can be had for $5K to $6K. Maybe $7K for a truly mint, lower mileage example. I just don't see the value in that much of a higher price for essentially the same car.

Another point, which I was guilty of thinking as well up until a few months ago, is the whole "special ZHP rack" thing. ZHP's and ZSP's have the same *ratio* (13.7:1) while M3's have an entirely different rack at 15.4:1. What the ZHP's and ZSP's do differ in however, is the internals. I'll let this thread do the talking: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=954523

Coming from someone who's driven a friend's ZHP quite a bit, there's really nothing extra special about the steering feel. A ZHP is certainly a nice package to have, especially if you can find a low mileage, taken care of, manual example. But IMO, not really worth it when a standard ZSP 330 can be had with those mods for way less than the difference in asking prices for most ZHP's.

(Also, FWIW, my friend has the original window sticker from his car. Dealer price $45,000. My '02 330Ci, 100% options, also $45,000 dealer price )
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:13 AM   #27
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Very good point. Again I'm just wanting to hear opinions. Are zhps that much better than a 330i or 330ci with a sport pack and manual? I know the steering rack is from the M3 and some suspension bits here and there but are they really worth the premium people are asking for now a days?
If you want the cool factor of a fairly unique car -- and ZHPs are definitely unique -- then yes. For example, only 158 of my car's color/interior/tranny were made, out of a total production run of 3063 coupes. That's why there's the premium, as they weren't 'ordinary' BMWs and there are truly very few of them.

Beyond that, it's subjective -- I prefer the M-Tech II bumper (and front and rear, I think the pre-facelift coupe bumpers look better than the facelift ones). The anthracite interior looks nicer, and I dig the red needles. I'm glad it came with an M-steering wheel from the factory -- I know that's the first thing I would've changed had it been a regular 330's sports wheel...

In the end, however, it was a minor upgrade/package/choice (call it what you will) -- all other things being equal, if my friend had been selling a regular 330Ci, I would've still bought it off of him and not looked back.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:51 AM   #28
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nah that 330Ci doesn't have the Performance Package. when you know what to look for its pretty obvious.

also seems priced as if it were one.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:49 AM   #29
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Very good point. Again I'm just wanting to hear opinions. Are zhps that much better than a 330i or 330ci with a sport pack and manual? I know the steering rack is from the M3 and some suspension bits here and there but are they really worth the premium people are asking for now a days?


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I wouldn't say its "that" much better however with a ZHP, you have all the fixings. A lot of little things add up. Given the fact that these cars are 2 generations ago and well over 10 years old, the ZHP is worth it should the price not be stupid. You have the Mtech II with the M135 rims and trunk spoiler, immediately makes the car look years newer than your standard e46 set up. The black window trim is a nice touch as well.

From a performance standpoint... meh, its a little better. At this point the "premium" on a ZHP should be a grand or so if you line one up with a comparable 330 with sport package. On top of that add the M3 wheel, weighted shift knob, cube trim, cams/differential, and tighter steering, and black headliner.

They way I see it... this premium (even if it was $1500 more) is the equivalent of buying a steering wheel, cube trim, and black headliner (used of course) so... yes, worth it when you look at the grand scheme of things.

This car however is a little different. Its almost a ZHP from the looks of it, but that doesn't do any favors to the value of a car when it isn't 100% stock. Its buying power, nothing more nothing less.

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Someone on here once said something along the lines of "is it really worth it to pay a couple thousand dollar premium for 300 RPM, 10 BHP, a fuzzy steering wheel and some fuzzy seats?" If you ask me, most ZHP's really aren't worth the extra couple thousand that most ask for them. I consistently see high mileage (over 100K) ZHP's for north of $9K. A nice ZSP, ZPP 330i or 330Ci can be had for $5K to $6K. Maybe $7K for a truly mint, lower mileage example. I just don't see the value in that much of a higher price for essentially the same car.

Another point, which I was guilty of thinking as well up until a few months ago, is the whole "special ZHP rack" thing. ZHP's and ZSP's have the same *ratio* (13.7:1) while M3's have an entirely different rack at 15.4:1. What the ZHP's and ZSP's do differ in however, is the internals. I'll let this thread do the talking: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=954523

Coming from someone who's driven a friend's ZHP quite a bit, there's really nothing extra special about the steering feel. A ZHP is certainly a nice package to have, especially if you can find a low mileage, taken care of, manual example. But IMO, not really worth it when a standard ZSP 330 can be had with those mods for way less than the difference in asking prices for most ZHP's.

(Also, FWIW, my friend has the original window sticker from his car. Dealer price $45,000. My '02 330Ci, 100% options, also $45,000 dealer price )
Read my post above. For a $4000 option it really is an incredible deal. Keep in mind, sport package was $1600 for our cars, so really the ZHP upgrades were really only $2400 more.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:21 AM   #30
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If the way the car looks is any indication of how it was driven, then this car is the must avoid category. That car looks awful and the PO probably drove it like he stole it, as they say.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:23 AM   #31
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Read my post above. For a $4000 option it really is an incredible deal. Keep in mind, sport package was $1600 for our cars, so really the ZHP upgrades were really only $2400 more.
Agreed. And with the premium today being only $1-2K it's beyond dumb that people try to replicate a zhp instead of just getting one. Some people are just nuts.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:13 AM   #32
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Agreed. And with the premium today being only $1-2K it's beyond dumb that people try to replicate a zhp instead of just getting one. Some people are just nuts.
It might not make sense to you, but that's a different story. Perhaps you have some bias, given your ownership of one?

If you're a car enthusiast, you're well aware of the high (some would say ridiculous) mark-up on the ZHP optioned 330's. In my area, I often see them listed for DOUBLE or more the cost of a 330.

Reiterating again - a used car is a used car, ZHP or not. So if you're already committed to buying a used car that is going to need maintenance (Read: major components replaced), why would I buy essentially the same car at double the cost? So I can further invest money replacing all the worn ZHP bits that came with it?

Even a low mileage example will need work. I'm paying a premium for shit I'm going to need to replace anyway! And how many of these unicorns do you think are on the used car market right now? If one comes up for sale, what do you think the asking price will be? 10k? 12k? I've seen even higher.

Unless I'm a collector who really needed to satisfy a ZHP hardon, I don't see the point.

OP can consider a MY 2003+ 330, then price himself out some gauge rings, an alcantara headliner, black pube trim, and a ZHP suspension refresh kit. He's 95% ZHP now, with new parts, and enough leftover money for a week in [insert tropical place here].

Tell me in which way he's discernable from a "true" ZHP now. Aside from being a BMW nerd and looking up his VIN.



The car in the OP looks fantastic, aside from the wheels (which are my own personal preference)
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:19 AM   #33
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If you want the cool factor of a fairly unique car -- and ZHPs are definitely unique -- then yes. For example, only 158 of my car's color/interior/tranny were made, out of a total production run of 3063 coupes. That's why there's the premium, as they weren't 'ordinary' BMWs and there are truly very few of them.
My mom's JapanRot 325i is 1 of 2 in North America.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:52 AM   #34
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I have upgraded my 330 CIC with the ///M leather steering wheel, silver cube trim, trunk lip, HD control arms and bushings, HD end links, leather shift knob.

I'm not trying to make it a ZHP wannabe but these features look nicer and give it a better feel.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:03 PM   #35
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Very good point. Again I'm just wanting to hear opinions. Are zhps that much better than a 330i or 330ci with a sport pack and manual? I know the steering rack is from the M3 and some suspension bits here and there but are they really worth the premium people are asking for now a days?
same steering rack as other 330s. it's not a different car, its a 330 that just has an "option package".
Is it worth the premium, maybe new but not a chance now from majority of private sellers. as someone said maybe at a price of $1000 more over Sport, otherwise not.

if you're set on that car, it's not a horrible deal. has some tasteful mods, options and seats good condition. but it's no steal either. it should be priced for less imho.
if you do go down there and negotiate price, things to bring up i see are cheap vinyl trim wrap, looks like possible cracked lip spoiler, check M3 mirror motor function and it's listed as heated seats when there are no heated seat buttons. mechanically who knows.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:17 PM   #36
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Read my post above. For a $4000 option it really is an incredible deal. Keep in mind, sport package was $1600 for our cars, so really the ZHP upgrades were really only $2400 more.
The big point that I really was trying to make, is that it just seems silly to pay over $9K or $10K for a ZHP. I could easily find several ZHP's for sale right now over or around $10K, here in our classifieds and on Autotrader. If most ZHP's were only $1K premiums over the standard, then that'd be a different story.

Now of course, like you mentioned, if you're dead set on a ZHP then throw out whatever extra cash you have for one. Adding up all the prices for the whole M-Tech II body kit, black window trim, cube trim, gauge cluster, steering wheel, style 135 wheels, gear knob and black headliner is probably more than what you'll pay trying to upgrade a ZSP/ZPP car. Most of us here will mod our cars anyways though, and replace the suspension components so we get a better car than a ZHP anyways, IMO.

Btw, was it really a $4K option? Both sticker prices for mine and my friends ZHP are $45,000. We both have 100% options, but obviously he's got the ZHP.
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[BMW Motors] Advertising has somehow convinced people that they're different. That they're made by magical Dachshunds who only eat special bratwursts made by virgins in an undisclosed magical spot inside of the black forest that can only be accessed via a special hydrogen powered BMW helicopter.

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Old 04-12-2017, 02:29 PM   #37
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The big point that I really was trying to make, is that it just seems silly to pay over $9K or $10K for a ZHP. I could easily find several ZHP's for sale right now over or around $10K, here in our classifieds and on Autotrader. If most ZHP's were only $1K premiums over the standard, then that'd be a different story.

Now of course, like you mentioned, if you're dead set on a ZHP then throw out whatever extra cash you have for one. Adding up all the prices for the whole M-Tech II body kit, black window trim, cube trim, gauge cluster, steering wheel, style 135 wheels, gear knob and black headliner is probably more than what you'll pay trying to upgrade a ZSP/ZPP car. Most of us here will mod our cars anyways though, and replace the suspension components so we get a better car than a ZHP anyways, IMO.

Btw, was it really a $4K option? Both sticker prices for mine and my friends ZHP are $45,000. We both have 100% options, but obviously he's got the ZHP.
Well i don't think this car in particular is worth $10k. Assuming the upgrades was done the right way, it would never increase the value of the car. If it were an actual ZHP, idk.. maybe 9k would be reasonable for the color combo/mileage, however yet again the rims (although nice) would still technically reduce the value of the car.

Yes, the Performance Package was $4k. Your stickers might be similar because there are plenty of non-ZHP's out there that have sports package ($1600) Premium Package ($2500) Nav ($2000) Cold Weather Package ($850 IIRC) automatic transmission ($2200?) and so forth...

My car was $42,600 if i'm not mistaken. It had Sports Package and $1000 upgrade Style 71 18in rims
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:40 PM   #38
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Yes, it was a $3,900 option but how someone configured their e46 at the time can widely vary in price. Cold Weather and Premium packages would be additional to the Performance package i believe, which would add a lot to the cost.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:42 PM   #39
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Well i don't think this car in particular is worth $10k. Assuming the upgrades was done the right way, it would never increase the value of the car. If it were an actual ZHP, idk.. maybe 9k would be reasonable for the color combo/mileage, however yet again the rims (although nice) would still technically reduce the value of the car.

Yes, the Performance Package was $4k. Your stickers might be similar because there are plenty of non-ZHP's out there that have sports package ($1600) Premium Package ($2500) Nav ($2000) Cold Weather Package ($850 IIRC) automatic transmission ($2200?) and so forth...

My car was $42,600 if i'm not mistaken. It had Sports Package and $1000 upgrade Style 71 18in rims
Even if that car in question was a zhp it still wouldn't be worth that much. The zhp's that hold the most value are generally the ones that are kept as close to stock as possible, not thugged out like that one.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:44 PM   #40
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Well i don't think this car in particular is worth $10k. Assuming the upgrades was done the right way, it would never increase the value of the car. If it were an actual ZHP, idk.. maybe 9k would be reasonable for the color combo/mileage, however yet again the rims (although nice) would still technically reduce the value of the car.

Yes, the Performance Package was $4k. Your stickers might be similar because there are plenty of non-ZHP's out there that have sports package ($1600) Premium Package ($2500) Nav ($2000) Cold Weather Package ($850 IIRC) automatic transmission ($2200?) and so forth...

My car was $42,600 if i'm not mistaken. It had Sports Package and $1000 upgrade Style 71 18in rims
Of course. Yeah, this car might be somewhere in the $7K range assuming it checks out mechanically. Idk if I would go for this particular example (not a fan of the wheels, not a real ZHP) but it'll be nice for someone.

As far as options go, I forgot an AT would add price. Other options-wise, not sure though. My friend's ZHP has everything (nav, TPMS, maybe heated seats?) but I don't have ZCW or nav. So there's some mystery $1800 worth of options that made my car the same sticker as his. Hmm.

(So much for 100% options on my car, btw. It doesn't even have an alarm in it! My printout from BMW says 100% options though)

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