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Old 04-12-2017, 02:45 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by hodgkinsc330ci View Post
Now of course, like you mentioned, if you're dead set on a ZHP then throw out whatever extra cash you have for one. Adding up all the prices for the whole M-Tech II body kit, black window trim, cube trim, gauge cluster, steering wheel, style 135 wheels, gear knob and black headliner is probably more than what you'll pay trying to upgrade a ZSP/ZPP car. Most of us here will mod our cars anyways though, and replace the suspension components so we get a better car than a ZHP anyways, IMO.
I'm not a ZHP owner, but I have a theory that it's the cam difference that's most commonly used to justify the price hike over standard E46s.

Everything else (cluster, DME tune, steering wheel, 135s, shift knob, etc etc) bolts on fairly easily, but swapping out the cams requires a decent amount of engine teardown, so if I were a ZHP owner, that's what would make me feel my car is truly "special."
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:48 PM   #42
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Even if that car in question was a zhp it still wouldn't be worth that much. The zhp's that hold the most value are generally the ones that are kept as close to stock as possible, not thugged out like that one.
Aftermarket rims that are on the cheaper side but still very reputable, and then from what it looks to be... OEM upgrades.

What exactly is thugged out about this car?
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:54 PM   #43
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^It's a matter of personal taste. The black grilles and the tint give it a vaguely thuggish appearance. I wouldn't mod my car that way. YMMV.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:56 PM   #44
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^ that, plus the bumper and rims scream "*****" trying to look "badass" but really looking like it's a car from the ghetto.
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:57 PM   #45
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The only thing missing to really make it look like a complete abortion of an e46 is to stance it, though the eurobro's and hoodrats would love it.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:03 PM   #46
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Love the color combo...
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:11 PM   #47
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Not sure if that color was offered with ZHP option.

Also, 170KW translates to 227BHP and the ZHP had 235BHP right out of the box
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #48
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I'm not a ZHP owner, but I have a theory that it's the cam difference that's most commonly used to justify the price hike over standard E46s.

Everything else (cluster, DME tune, steering wheel, 135s, shift knob, etc etc) bolts on fairly easily, but swapping out the cams requires a decent amount of engine teardown, so if I were a ZHP owner, that's what would make me feel my car is truly "special."
Hmm, yeah, I could see that. Funny that an owner would use that as a justification for a much higher price though. Realistically, that cam (+ factory tune) is maybe adding 2 WHP. If that. Plus the extra 300 RPM to the rev range.

Thought this was cool to see the cam differences (248/248 duration with 10.0mm/10.0mm lift is the ZHP cam)

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Old 04-12-2017, 03:26 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Spannerhead View Post
I'm not a ZHP owner, but I have a theory that it's the cam difference that's most commonly used to justify the price hike over standard E46s.

Everything else (cluster, DME tune, steering wheel, 135s, shift knob, etc etc) bolts on fairly easily, but swapping out the cams requires a decent amount of engine teardown, so if I were a ZHP owner, that's what would make me feel my car is truly "special."
Of course they do, but if the zhp has the look you like/want, why in the world would you spend even more money to take a non-zhp and make it look like one? So you'd spend more trying to bolt on pieces and yet wouldn't get the higher value that zhp's go for.

Then again, i've seen the prices tourings can go for so people are willing to flush money down the toilet
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:26 PM   #50
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Not sure if that color was offered with ZHP option.

Also, 170KW translates to 227BHP and the ZHP had 235BHP right out of the box
we've already concluded that it isn't a zhp
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:36 PM   #51
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^It's a matter of personal taste. The black grilles and the tint give it a vaguely thuggish appearance. I wouldn't mod my car that way. YMMV.
Of course its personal taste, however i think the mods done on this from a scale of 1-10 on the "thug/ghetto" scale is a 1.5.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRhockey View Post
^ that, plus the bumper and rims scream "*****" trying to look "badass" but really looking like it's a car from the ghetto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRhockey View Post
The only thing missing to really make it look like a complete abortion of an e46 is to stance it, though the eurobro's and hoodrats would love it.
haha.. tough crowd huh? what would you say about e46s that have:

m3 fender grills
csl trunk
bbs/hre rims
quad exhausts
over kill suspension
exhausts/headers set up
angel eyes/aftermarket HID
dark tint
short shift kits
OEM M3 parts swapped
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:39 PM   #52
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I'm not a ZHP owner, but I have a theory that it's the cam difference that's most commonly used to justify the price hike over standard E46s.
Everything else bolts on fairly easily, but swapping out the cams requires a decent amount of engine teardown, so if I were a ZHP owner, that's what would make me feel my car is truly "special."
nothing like that "special" zhp rattle from the cams/vanos.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:48 PM   #53
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Hmm, yeah, I could see that. Funny that an owner would use that as a justification for a much higher price though. Realistically, that cam (+ factory tune) is maybe adding 2 WHP. If that. Plus the extra 300 RPM to the rev range.
It really doesn't matter what it is as long as

A) It increases performance, however slightly, and
B) It's difficult to add after the fact.

It could be a special lightweight flywheel, or a CF driveshaft, or ZHP-specific tubular headers... Any number of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRhockey View Post
Of course they do, but if the zhp has the look you like/want, why in the world would you spend even more money to take a non-zhp and make it look like one? So you'd spend more trying to bolt on pieces and yet wouldn't get the higher value that zhp's go for.
You're assuming most people mod their cars with resale value in mind. They don't.

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nothing like that "special" zhp rattle from the cams/vanos.
Are ZHPs more prone to VANOS issues than regular E46s?
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:53 PM   #54
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Of course they do, but if the zhp has the look you like/want, why in the world would you spend even more money to take a non-zhp and make it look like one? So you'd spend more trying to bolt on pieces and yet wouldn't get the higher value that zhp's go for.

Then again, i've seen the prices tourings can go for so people are willing to flush money down the toilet
Because you aren't spending more, you're spending less and getting more.

You're buying a 330 and making it "new" with that money you saved from not buying a ZHP, plus leftover.

Your overpriced ZHP will still require $$ for maintenance.
Refer to my last post.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:04 PM   #55
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Because you aren't spending more, you're spending less and getting more.

You're buying a 330 and making it "new" with that money you saved from not buying a ZHP, plus leftover.

Your overpriced ZHP will still require $$ for maintenance.
Refer to my last post.
You're either replying to the wrong post or just don't get it. You'd be replacing a used bumper, for example, with another used zhp bumper so you're not making anything "new".

Part of the additional cost to the zhp was the cosmetic differences / upgrades, so my post was about buying a non-zhp and spending the money to make it look like one as being incredibly wasteful when it'd cost you less to just get the zhp.

One of the key reasons i bought a zhp is because i really liked the more aggressive look (bigger/staggered wheels, spoiler, bumpers, black window trim, which btw makes the e46's with chrome trim look very dated) as well as the interior feel with the weighted shifter, alcantara steering wheel,etc, so for me to get something else to make it look like this would have been a dumb move.

Mechanically is a different story.

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Old 04-12-2017, 04:59 PM   #56
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Are ZHPs more prone to VANOS issues than regular E46s?
you obviously never heard of the infamous "zhp rattle", aka "marbles in a can". then their cams were supplied by Alpina, which the Tech writer for BMWCCA Roundel found had (just in his fix) 3 out of 4 cams out of spec. not expected by such a respected tuner.
BMW was blowing out these cams plus the oil pump nut fix for dirt cheap. if someone wanted cams, these were way to mild for real performance.
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One of the key reasons i bought a zhp is because i really liked the more aggressive look (.. black window trim, which btw makes the e46's with chrome trim look very dated..
haha, so I guess the '99 323 sedans and base 325 sedans look the newest since they came with black window trim.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:50 PM   #57
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haha, so I guess the '99 323 sedans and base 325 sedans look the newest since they came with black window trim.
Being a pre face-lift model it doesn't matter what trim you put on a 323 it's still going to look dated.....

A few months ago when i was looking for an e46 i saw a minty-looking '04 330i ZSP with 60K-ish on it going for ~$12K and looking at the pictures the chrome trim really impacted the look from the side. It sold pretty quickly so it must have been as good a shape as it looked.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:13 PM   #58
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you obviously never heard of the infamous "zhp rattle", aka "marbles in a can". then their cams were supplied by Alpina, which the Tech writer for BMWCCA Roundel found had (just in his fix) 3 out of 4 cams out of spec. not expected by such a respected tuner.
BMW was blowing out these cams plus the oil pump nut fix for dirt cheap. if someone wanted cams, these were way to mild for real performance.

haha, so I guess the '99 323 sedans and base 325 sedans look the newest since they came with black window trim.


It's rubber where the zhp has a much nicer finish....


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Old 04-12-2017, 08:10 PM   #59
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Oh, Christ... can we not turn this into another one of those ZHP vs. 330 threads? If you don't want a ZHP or think they're overpriced, don't get one. There are plenty of great regular 330s out there.

At the end of the day, the fact is they retain their value because they're in demand -- just look around; I have a hard time finding low-mileage ZHPs going for less than $10K (usually they hover just south of $15K). I know that I can turn around and sell mine for between 12K and 15K easy, which is more than I can say for a normal 330Ci (let alone my 325).

OP: the real answer to your question on whether the ZHP is 'better' or 'worth it' is completely up to you... check out this link for the differences between the two:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index...rmance_Package
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:34 AM   #60
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Oh, .. can we not turn this into another one of those ZHP vs. 330 threads?
a "zhp" is a 330.

sorry if OP has questions/people ask questions you don't like answers to, you dont have to stay in the thread. but hope you do.

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