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Old 04-14-2017, 09:03 AM   #21
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A lot more effective than diplomacy was.
Source?
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:12 AM   #22
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Where's that bomb simulator?


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I was looking that up just yesterday, site is down. Maybe there is a new one out there.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #23
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Where's that bomb simulator?


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Old 04-14-2017, 09:31 AM   #24
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Sooo what does this have to do with the President?

"The military is currently assessing the damage. Gen. John Nicholson, commander of US forces in Afghanistan, signed off on the use of the bomb, according to the sources. Authority had to be sought from Gen. Joseph Votel, commander of US Central Command."
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Ooook, again what does this have to do with the CiC? Gen. Joseph Votel is a 4 star General. Do you think every combat decision comes from the CiC? The President or some staff were briefed at best.
Apology accepted

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/04...n-afghanistan/
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:37 AM   #25
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Looks like "The President" has just dropped the first MOAB ever used in combat in Afghanistan. Please, oh please discuss.

I did look at the horizon for the mushroom cloud, but couldn't see it in the distance, even with a long-lensed digital camera...
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I now use "air quotes" and "quotation marks" when referring to "Donald Trump" and "the President," to honor his many baffling and controversial presidential tweets. I think it's obvious he is in way over his big orange head regardless of how one feels about him... So I will not be 100% literal either:

"White House press secretary Sean Spicer continues to get barraged with questions about President Trump's claim that President Barack Obama wiretapped him. And Spicer had a new defense Monday: Perhaps Trump wasn't being 100 percent literal. He used quotation marks, after all!

"Trump has a very strange relationship with quotation marks. If you look over his tweets, he doesn't seem to use them in any consistent way. While some people might use them to project skepticism, that's not his approach. And while some might use them when they're actually quoting other people, Trump doesn't do that much either."

Source (amongst many others): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c7c8362380a8
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:54 PM   #26
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Source?
Number of tunnels destroyed by diplomacy: none
Number of tunnels destroyed by MOAB: some
Case closed.
SlowJoe loses again.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:23 PM   #27
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Number of tunnels destroyed by diplomacy: none
Number of tunnels destroyed by MOAB: some
Case closed.
SlowJoe loses again.
Speculation on all counts. You lose. Provide evidence or try again.

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Old 04-14-2017, 09:05 PM   #28
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The report said tunnels were destroyed and 36 ISIS members, including one commander were killed.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:20 AM   #29
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And it is incumbent upon SlowJoe to provide links showing that diplomacy has destroyed tunnels (since I cannot prove a negative with links).

You lose SlowJoe.
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Old 04-15-2017, 02:42 PM   #30
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And it is incumbent upon SlowJoe to provide links showing that diplomacy has destroyed tunnels (since I cannot prove a negative with links).

You lose SlowJoe.
Skimming the surface again, Ed? You assume diplomacy with ISIS is the the only kind of diplomacy at play? You disregard diplomacy with allies in the region to get intel and attacks on ISIS. Drone strikes have been far more effective at ISIS strikes than MOAB. Sure, it's an impressive piece of weaponry. But I'm certain more damage could have been done with less expensive tech. time will tell how effective the strike was. It seems like was more of an attempt to impress the likes of you than cripple ISIS.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:07 PM   #31
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Lots of rationalization going on out there (no telling what's accurate or not): The MOAB not only destroys infrastructure, but also detonates land mines, making it easier and safer for crews to reconnoiter the bombed-out area; It was a signal to the ISIS goons that we are escalating the effort; Sends a message to North Korea that "you're next;" Tells the world "there's a new sheriff in town;" "We must do something to draw attention away from that goddamned pregnant giraffe and passengers dragged from occupied seats, and back to Mar-A-Lago where it belongs."
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:04 AM   #32
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Wrong, this administration has given its top military officials to authority to take action as needed, without having to get permission from the top for each individual decision. From your article,

"“We have given them total authorization. Frankly, that’s why they’ve been so successful lately. If you look at what’s happened over the last eight weeks and compare that to what’s happened over the last eight years, you’ll see there’s a tremendous difference,” he continued."


From CNN http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politi...tan/index.html

"Everybody knows exactly what happens. So, what I do is I authorize our military," Trump said when asked whether he authorized the strike. "We have given them total authorization and that's what they're doing."

http://www.patdollard.com/trump-on-m...essful-lately/

"Trump On MOAB: I’ve Given The Military “Total Authorization,” “That’s Why They’ve Been So Successful Lately”
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:02 AM   #33
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Wrong, this administration has given its top military officials to authority to take action as needed, without having to get permission from the top for each individual decision. From your article,

"“We have given them total authorization. Frankly, that’s why they’ve been so successful lately. If you look at what’s happened over the last eight weeks and compare that to what’s happened over the last eight years, you’ll see there’s a tremendous difference,” he continued."


From CNN http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/politi...tan/index.html

"Everybody knows exactly what happens. So, what I do is I authorize our military," Trump said when asked whether he authorized the strike. "We have given them total authorization and that's what they're doing."

http://www.patdollard.com/trump-on-m...essful-lately/

"Trump On MOAB: I’ve Given The Military “Total Authorization,” “That’s Why They’ve Been So Successful Lately”
Oh, so you're one of those six or eight people on Earth that truly believe "The President" is truthful in all he does (even his own people have habitually been forced to twist themselves into pretzels trying to rationalize and explain away his many outrageous pronouncements)...

If you think for one nanosecond that "The President" was not in on this particular decision from the get-go, that he was actually leaving it up to his Generals to wage war as they see fit under his aegis and without needing prior authorization to let loose these dogs of war, you have no clue how government really works...

It's all for his cover and for public consumption. "The President" would have hidden from the light of day like a scurrying roach had the operation somehow gone south, used the above rationales as his excuse, and blamed The Generals for not checking with him first in that case. Since the MOAB went off as intended, he will take full credit, and has. It's all politics, yo...
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:25 AM   #34
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Oh, so you're one of those six or eight people on Earth that truly believe "The President" is truthful in all he does (even his own people have habitually been forced to twist themselves into pretzels trying to rationalize and explain away his many outrageous pronouncements)...

If you think for one nanosecond that "The President" was not in on this particular decision from the get-go, that he was actually leaving it up to his Generals to wage war as they see fit under his aegis and without needing prior authorization to let loose these dogs of war, you have no clue how government really works...

It's all for his cover and for public consumption. "The President" would have hidden from the light of day like a scurrying roach had the operation somehow gone south, used the above rationales as his excuse, and blamed The Generals for not checking with him first in that case. Since the MOAB went off as intended, he will take full credit, and has. It's all politics, yo...
You are one of those tin foil hat types that thinks the president is even aware of half the things going on at all times... got it.

As an active duty member, I have full confidence in our 4 star Generals and Admirals, way more than any sitting president.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:38 AM   #35
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You are one of those tin foil hat types that thinks the president is even aware of half the things going on at all times... got it.

As an active duty member, I have full confidence in our 4 star Generals and Admirals, way more than any sitting president.
I agree but if this operation had gone south, they would blame Trump and not the generals/admirals.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:47 AM   #36
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I agree but if this operation had gone south, they would blame Trump and not the generals/admirals.
I agree, which is why I'm not giving him credit for this operation, and he is not accepting credit (other than, I give my generals full authority on decisions). The original argument before this got twisted , was that Trump ordered the drop, I stated that he didn't, that it was the General of Central Command.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:52 AM   #37
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As an active duty member, I have full confidence in our 4 star Generals and Admirals, way more than any sitting president.
As do I, especially with this particular administration. "The President" we have right now is a real peach, ain't he?

I don't think this administration is aware of very much going on that doesn't bring publicity or added treasure to its fearless leader. But this MOAB drop... This one decision came from the very tippy top: I would bet serious money on it. No General is going to use the biggest baddest non-nuclear bomb in its arsenal for a non-vital engagement without a little prodding from "The President."

And thank you for your service...
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:56 AM   #38
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No General is going to use the biggest baddest non-nuclear bomb in its arsenal for a non-vital engagement without a little prodding from "The President."

And thank you for your service...
You base this on what?
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:59 AM   #39
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I agree, which is why I'm not giving him credit for this operation, and he is not accepting credit (other than, I give my generals full authority on decisions). The original argument before this got twisted , was that Trump ordered the drop, I stated that he didn't, that it was the General of Central Command.


I agree, though I do think that Trump had something to do with the use of this specific device seeing as though it had never been used in combat before where there were likely plenty of uses for it. He likes this sort of thing. Unless the bomb was expiring and they had to use it or whatever BS someone posted in another thread.

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Old 04-19-2017, 10:40 AM   #40
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You base this on what?
A profound feeling. Trump's unlimited ego and desire for grandstanding. His penchant for diverting attention from whatever embarrassment or trick he has in his other sleeve. His unalloyed wish to dominate the news cycle every single day of his administration. Something to tweet about now or someday soon. It's just another outrageous way for him to send a message to the rest of the world that his administration is not pussy-footing around, because he is the toughest macho-est cowboy leader of them all. Plus his core base, the so-called Deplorables, will eat it up... :wink:
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