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Old 04-13-2017, 11:17 PM   #1
az_330
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Having Surge Issues, Poor response... Due to Trans Swap? Software?

Are the engines exactly the same? Specifically the throttle body..... I've been having some surge issues in 1st gear since a auto->manual swap and poor response/mpg at times... someone locally suggested that the throttle body is different and needs to be swapped. I figured they'd be the same

Last edited by az_330; 04-18-2017 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:30 PM   #2
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Yes it's identical. The DME tuning is different between the autos and manuals though, which might account for the surging.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:29 PM   #3
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How would I know if it has the correct tune? I have INPA and found a "software number".... Tried googling the number and didn't come back with anything though

The previous owner told me he updated the tune for the auto to manual swap... but who knows maybe he didn't do it right or use the right software?

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Old 04-16-2017, 03:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spannerhead View Post
Yes it's identical. The DME tuning is different between the autos and manuals though, which might account for the surging.
That makes sense, considering the autos have a different differential (ratio-wise)...
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:39 AM   #5
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^OK considering this... what do those of us with 5 speed swaps and auto diff swaps do then? Since the car will not be tuned for that ratio.
The original owner was thinking the surging issue was due to the fact that the final gear ratio is not tuned to the DME correctly.... he updated the tune for the manual transmission but

Is there a specific tune out there for cars that have the auto diff swap (for higher gear ratio) or auto->manual trans swap done???

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Old 04-17-2017, 12:31 PM   #6
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So the previous owner did the manual swap? How do you know the surging is only since the swap? Taking the previous owner's word?

Maybe the clutch is slipping?
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:44 PM   #7
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sounds like the switch for the clutch and revs. hear of people forgetting that way back when people first did the auto to manual swaps years ago.

do a Search and look it up.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:46 PM   #8
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The final drive ratio given by your remaining automatic differential will have nothing to do with the tune.
That's your own custom creation & BMW has nothing to do with it.

I randomly selected a January 2003 build 330i to show you the DME tuning options available:
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E4...ctrical_system

If you have a manual transmission, you can update your DME to an appropriate tune.
Honestly, I doubt the DME version for an automatic car has much to do with your issue.

I can see a DME tune from an automatic impacting the redline based on which gear you're in & engine / transmission temperatures, and perhaps also the idle "procedure" once you let off the gas. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell you for sure how the DME / TCM modules interact.

If this issue just started after the swap my guess is you had an underlying issue, such as the the ICV being dirty / clogged, and perhaps a vacuum leak. I'd check those first.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:08 PM   #9
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So the previous owner did the manual swap? How do you know the surging is only since the swap? Taking the previous owner's word?

Maybe the clutch is slipping?
Yes and yea took the previous owner's word. I took the car back to him since he's pretty close to me and wasn't sure what I meant about the surging. As soon as we went on a test drive and I gave it 1 good rip in first gear the car surged and he knew exactly what I was talking about. He claimed the car didn't do that until he flashed it to accept the manual transmission. He then told me to get INPA running on my laptop to run a diagnostic.. Did that but didn't come up with much besides a 250 functional check TEV code and secondary air pump codes bank 1 and 2 (I did NOT have a CEL). Cleared the codes and the car did get a little more pep. I need to go back and check to be sure the codes did not come back. Will do that later today.

The clutch was replaced with a good condition M3 clutch when the PO did the swap so I don't think that's it.... I've been driving/racing/building cars for over 10 years and know what a slipping clutch feels like.... this isn't it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex323Ci View Post
sounds like the switch for the clutch and revs. hear of people forgetting that way back when people first did the auto to manual swaps years ago.

do a Search and look it up.
The car wouldn't start if the clutch switch was bad right? My car starts fine.


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If this issue just started after the swap my guess is you had an underlying issue, such as the the ICV being dirty / clogged, and perhaps a vacuum leak. I'd check those first.
I will need to do research on the ICV being dirty. I took my car to a local E46 guy and he was claiming the only thing I'd need to clean would be around the throttle body plate. I replaced the lower boot when I first got the car and checked around that throttle body and it seemed clean enough to me... I figured there'd be more to look out for than just the throttle body.

What gets me is the car idles great.... no hunting for idle or anything unusual that would indicate a vacuum leak.

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Old 04-17-2017, 01:16 PM   #10
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The car wouldn't start if the clutch switch was bad, no?
it's some type of electrical switch that drops the rpms to match shifting better. i remember early swaps having this issue if not done properly.

I'm sure if you look at established DIYs for automatic to manual transmission swaps the info will be posted.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:24 PM   #11
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Other possibilities that people have suggested....

Lazy O2 sensors.... will be replacing these when I have the time/money. Previous owner says he never replaced them.

Bad coil packs..... they looked fine when I changed the plugs about 2 months ago but will replace them anyway when I have the money since they look original.

The automatic clutch fan..... I have a manual fan in my garage. Just waiting for the next oil change since I need to do the oil filter housing seal as well.

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Old 04-17-2017, 01:26 PM   #12
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it's some type of electrical switch that drops the rpms to match shifting better. i remember early swaps having this issue if not done properly.
That's exactly it. On my old 6-speed E34 540, I had DUDMD chip my DME, and he shipped me a "loaner" DME from an auto E34 540 to use in the meantime, and there was a wicked hesitation every time I'd shift. That's the main programming difference, IMO. Needless to say, I was very happy to get my chipped DME back.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
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it's some type of electrical switch that drops the rpms to match shifting better. i remember early swaps having this issue if not done properly.

I'm sure if you look at established DIYs for automatic to manual transmission swaps the info will be posted.
Interesting.... The previous owner did say he used a cheaper version clutch switch. I will look into this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spannerhead View Post
That's exactly it. On my old 6-speed E34 540, I had DUDMD chip my DME, and he shipped me a "loaner" DME from an auto E34 540 to use in the meantime, and there was a wicked hesitation every time I'd shift. That's the main programming difference, IMO. Needless to say, I was very happy to get my chipped DME back.
^Does he still do this? Why exactly were you having your car chipped?

I'm just really afraid I'll send my DME off somewhere, get it back and it still has the same problem:/

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Old 04-17-2017, 01:32 PM   #14
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^Does he still do this? Why exactly were you having your car chipped?
DUDMD? As far as I know he's still in the DME programming business. Not sure if he tunes M54s though.

Why was I having it chipped? Performance.

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Old 04-17-2017, 01:32 PM   #15
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here it is:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...4&postcount=35

and thread. It talks mostly about a TIS Bulletin on early cars but the info about having it programmed for a manual and the DME for the switch and checking it is all there. basically the rpms hang and makes shifting hard. not sure if yours was reprogrammed for this already but just giving you the info. took me a while to find the info in a Search so gonna post it anyhow.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=632887&page=3
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:54 PM   #16
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^Thanks but it looks like the M54 engine wasn't affected by that....

It feels pretty good during shifts (besides the shift pins needing replacement... likes to go to 5th gear sometimes instead of 3rd). Doesn't feel like it hangs up or anything like that and INPA shows the car is reading the clutch switch. I believe I have the 2 wire non adjustable switch though.... Maybe I should get the 3 wire just in case?

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:50 PM   #17
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The manual and auto DME firmware are the same, you don't need to flash it when doing a swap. There is a little bit of coding required though, but that doesn't affect the engine running at all.

Where are the OBD Fusion logs, trouble codes, and freezeframe info?
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:50 AM   #18
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I have this for now... Let me know what else you'd like to see. The functional check TEV code had more occurrences the last I checked. I cleared the codes a few nights ago so need to check and see if INPA comes up with anything.

Also I see the production date shows 04... My car is a 01 so I assume the DME was swapped? Or does that mean something else?

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Old 04-18-2017, 07:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
I have this for now... Let me know what else you'd like to see. The functional check TEV code had more occurrences the last I checked. I cleared the codes a few nights ago so need to check and see if INPA comes up with anything.
As we see INPA is cryptic and in German; so hard to use. For engine running issues get a wireless OBD adapter and OBD Fusion app for looking at DME trouble codes, freeze frame data, fuel trims, and logging various engine parameters.

Quote:
Also I see the production date shows 04... My car is a 01 so I assume the DME was swapped? Or does that mean something else?
DME was likely swapped. Were the EWS and keys swapped as well? The VIN indicates a 2001-07-09 330Ci (your car?) while the DME shows 2004-09-23. That MS43 DME is either from an XI or a non-E46 BMW, as non-XI E46s switched to MS45 in 2003-03 while XIs retained MS43 through EOP in 2005.

I'm guessing that DME's part number is 7545150. Here are the applications for it.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=7545150

And the DME version (assembly number in INPA) is old, it should be 7571613.

Does the previous owner have the original DME?

Another possibility is the DME is unlocked and has custom firmware.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:42 AM   #20
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I have Dash Command which shows some live data and can log... Does INPA not have that capability? INPA definitely has more readout options than dash command but haven't found anything for logging. Also trying to find an option for running a diagnostic check on the secondary air pump. Still learning

That really scares me about the DME. I'm not sure about the key.. I was only given 1. I can ask if he has the original DME but my guess is he doesn't have it. Should I be looking into swapping the DME with one more similar to my car? If so should I get a auto or manual one? Or does it even matter?

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