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2013 BMW M5 - Manual Transmission

15K views 42 replies 26 participants last post by  KOpower 
#1 ·
http://youtu.be/c3qjDQw_kpQ

BMW is 'bringing back the manual' - and trying to "keep it alive" -

The reviewer seems to prefer those whizzy dual clutch auto things over the manual????? -- I don't agree with the reviewer

Plus the manual did a 4.8 second or something 0 to 60 ! that's fab performance! I don't think those auto dual clutch things are that much faster??? Plus don't they need way more maintainence than standard manual transmission -


Everyone discuss the New M5 and if you are digging the manual tranny ! :)
 
#5 ·
BMW is 'bringing back the manual' - and trying to "keep it alive" -

The reviewer seems to prefer those whizzy dual clutch auto things over the manual????? -- I don't agree with the reviewer

Plus the manual did a 4.8 second or something 0 to 60 ! that's fab performance! I don't think those auto dual clutch things are that much faster??? Plus don't they need way more maintainence than standard manual transmission -


Everyone discuss the New M5 and if you are digging the manual tranny ! :)
Yep, they are. Nissan GTR, Ferrari, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Mclaren, Le Mans Prototypes, Formula 1, etc... all use fully automated single or dual clutch transmissions because they are vastly faster and more intuitive than a standard manual transmission. Welcome to the year 2000.

Your claim of more maintenance is pretty insignificant in comparison to how complicated all the other parts of the new M5 are.

That said, it is nice that a standard manual transmission is offered. It brings the overall price of the car down, shows that BMW is putting an emphasis on performance, and gives something to the aging "purists" (and the hipsters) who still like to use a foot actuated clutch and manually engage each gear.
 
#24 ·
I couldn't agree more. Between the watered down steering, engine noise played through the stereo system and 4,000 pound plus curb weight, a manual in the F10 M5 is too little too late. This car has gone from a nimble sports sedan to a bit of a big, comfortable autobahn cruiser. If you want an M5 with a proper manual, get an E39.
 
#8 ·
Just because an airplane has a really nice autopilot doesn't mean it shouldn't be nice to fly manually.

If you assume the purpose of a car is to be fun, and that speed is not directly correlated to fun, then it's entirely reasonable to say a manual transmission, a fun and engaging way to interact with a car, is still a very necessary option.

My brother in law got an f10 M5 and I had a good run around an airport and then some in it, and it didn't do much for me. Very fast, but a bit boring. The DCT kept getting in the way.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Just because an airplane has a really nice autopilot doesn't mean it shouldn't be nice to fly manually.
That example is more analogous with cruise control.

I dare you to find any pilot of any modern plane, or perhaps in this case something a little more high performance (ex., F-22, F/A-18, F-35, F-15, etc.) and tell them that simply because their planes have nice fly-by-wire systems that it doesn't mean it shouldn't be nice to fly them with mechanical/manually operated flight control systems.

And you call yourself a pilot? :rolleyes:
 
#9 ·
I agree for formula 1 racing and driving a Ferrari or Bugatti or whatever the dual clutch auto is just necessary - as these are SUPER cars

but for the rest of us manual is just more intuitive and still plenty damn quick on the race track

I agree my maintenance argument is not much relevant as the M5 is pretty damn complicated with expensive parts already

I just think phasing out manuals altogether is definitely a step back in driving pleasure
I think there will always be a space for manual cars in the market (although one that will keep getting smaller)

Also as someone said - 'auto pilot' is pretty damn boring!!
 
#10 ·
Well, Hamilton who drives an F1 car for a living special ordered his Pagani Zonda with a manual. He drives cars with the most advanced, fastest shifting sequential trannys in the World, but he stated he prefers to shift himself.

As someone who had a manual, then auto, now wants a manual again. I hate driving autos, but that's my preference, and plenty of people feel the opposite. I hope traditional manuals will stay available, at least they do for now.

As for lowering the price of the new M5, it doesn't actually, the manual will be a no cost option.
 
#14 ·
Well, Hamilton who drives an F1 car for a living special ordered his Pagani Zonda with a manual. He drives cars with the most advanced, fastest shifting sequential trannys in the World, but he stated he prefers to shift himself.

As someone who had a manual, then auto, now wants a manual again. I hate driving autos, but that's my preference, and plenty of people feel the opposite. I hope traditional manuals will stay available, at least they do for now.

As for lowering the price of the new M5, it doesn't actually, the manual will be a no cost option.
That has to be an extra $1000-2000 in BMW's pocket for every manual transmission sold then. :rofl:
 
#11 ·
This M5 is targeted at the 1%-ers of this world. I don't think a few G's here or there will matter to them when it comes down to buying price and options. Just imagine if you were to finance this sled, your monthly stroke would likely be in excess of $2,000.00 per month, with no cash down. Yikes!
 
#19 · (Edited)
I'm willing to wager but we'll never know who is right. It is the development cost, not the parts that I'm talking about. It probably costs BMW $1M plus to test and fine tune a transmission. If you're talking about the DCT you can spread that 1M over thousands of cars sold. For the manual the take rate is really low so you've got many less vehicles to spread the costs to. So the parts might be cheaper but any additional "profit" from the lower hardware costs is going right to R&D costs.

I've talked to people in BMW at length about this. This isn't something I'm guests on, this is exactly why they don't offer manual on everything. They cannot justify the cost when they won't see the return.

Tim
 
#22 ·
That seems a bit odd, tacking on a "development fee" to only the manual transmission cars, but I guess it makes sense. I'd think that would create a scenario where you can buy a brand new DCT car, immediately take off the transmission and sell it, buy a new manual transmission, and pay for installation with the difference in price.

Either way, it seems like people really don't care for manual transmissions in a 5 series anymore.
 
#20 ·
I will always have at least one manual car in the stable. I will say an auto is nice to have if you want to sit back and drink your latte, smoke a cigarette in a smokeless car (like adding an ashtray makes you want to smoke), and read/send text messages. There is no doubt the performance auto can shift way faster, but who cares. In any performance car by the time you need to shift your already going fast enough to get a speeding ticket. I believe they are cheaper to own though. If you disagree ask the SMG owners who had to buy a pump.

Adv of Clutch
1. Cheaper to Maint
2. Can pop the clutch if starter doesn't work or dead battery
3. Keeps me involved
4. Feels great minus rush hour/wreck on highway
5. Usually cheaper
6. Extra security - thief may not be able to drive stick

Adv of Auto
1. Any moron can drive the car
2. Great for rush hour
3. Forget I am even driving...
4. Good for Luxury cars, Trucks, and SUV's - unless it's a Dodge
 
#23 ·
BMW was probably looking at the total cost to develop a new car and ways to cut out waste. If a variant of any product costs more in R&D then it brought in for revenue any business would be cut it. You would in effect be making more money while doing less. Going beyond the R&D costs the less variants you have in your product line means you have a smaller supply chain, and so on. The effects are multiplied throughout the company.

Again I've talked to people in BMW at length about this. There are plenty of enthusiasts that work there that want to see manuals in more cars but there has to be a business case. As automatics and flappy paddle transmissions get better and better fewer and fewer still want a true manual and the case to continue producing them gets harder and harder.

Tim
 
#28 ·
I feel like the ability to drive a manual is what creates a good driver. If i was in my '91 325is and someone pulled up next to me in a new M5 with an automatic transmission I would honestly look down upon them and find them arrogant and using money to help them feel fast. Granted I'm sure anyone buying an M5 knows how to drive a car but I feel if you get rid of manual transmissions altogether you get rid of the thrill factor of knowing you nailed that shift. having a manual in a race car may actually make the racing much more competitive as it adds that one more skill to set the field apart.

My 2 cents, however I know I wont ever purchase an "enthusiasts" car or "the ultimate driving machine" without a manual transmission. takes out the thrill factor and disconnects you from the car.

:blah::blah::blah::blah:
 
#29 · (Edited)
I feel like the ability to drive a manual is what creates a good driver. If i was in my '91 325is and someone pulled up next to me in a new M5 with an automatic transmission I would honestly look down upon them and find them arrogant and using money to help them feel fast. Granted I'm sure anyone buying an M5 knows how to drive a car but I feel if you get rid of manual transmissions altogether you get rid of the thrill factor of knowing you nailed that shift. having a manual in a race car may actually make the racing much more competitive as it adds that one more skill to set the field apart.

My 2 cents, however I know I wont ever purchase an "enthusiasts" car or "the ultimate driving machine" without a manual transmission. takes out the thrill factor and disconnects you from the car.

:blah::blah::blah::blah:
That's a pretty disgusting thing to say without even knowing the person. The M5 driver with an auto that didn't say anything has much more of my respect than a judging and jealous pauper driving a busted up E30.
 
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