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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 03-12-2017, 01:57 PM   #1
ShearMechanism
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2004 330Ci, Second Opinion

Hi all,

I have a 330Ci with a crank/no start problem (about 150k miles). Before the no start, I got a service engine soon light and a noticeable drop in power on the way home. When I got home, it would not start (but vigorous crank).

Using a few lovely references from this site, I began to troubleshoot. My main suspect is the fuel pump or fuel pump relay. I checked the voltage at the fuel pump terminal and am reading about 10 V (a guide on Pelican parts said it should read about 12 V, this seems in range, but I am unsure on the tolerance of this). Additionally, when I crank the engine, I cannot hear/feel anything occurring at the fuel pump, even with the cover off. This would indicate to me that the fuel pump has died and needs replacement.

That being said, I wanted a second opinion before I go out and start buying parts. In particular, my second most likely option is the ignition switch. The reason for this is due to the sentence on the "no start" troubleshooting guide that states "warning lights coming on and off at random" can be a sign that the ignition switch is failing. I have had a low coolant light coming off and on for a bit. I haven't worried to much about it because I checked the coolant and I am good on that front. I figured I just had a sensor going out and I had time to worry about it later.

If I had a bad ignition switch, would the fuel pump still prime when cranking? Or would it just give the appearance of a bad pump when I really have a bad switch?

A second brain on this would be great. Thanks all!
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:27 PM   #2
ryanr1299
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First step is figuring out what codes drove your SES light. There's valuable information there before you start any work.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:29 PM   #3
ShearMechanism
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Agreed, however I am unable to get over a local store for a read. I do not have a reader, although I am thinking of ordering one after this.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:32 PM   #4
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The local store probably has a code reader you can borrow to get some info right away, but yeah you should definitely get yourself a reader.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:34 PM   #5
All2kool
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I have a U480 and it reads and clears codes on my BMW, Lincoln and Toyota just fine.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:46 PM   #6
ShearMechanism
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Local shops will not lend or rent out a code reader. Will go ahead and order.

No one willing to idly prognosticate a cause? Anyone with experience with a similar set of symptoms or events? Just looking for an alternate view or opinion to my diagnosis.
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Old 03-12-2017, 03:20 PM   #7
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Have you read the no start- list of possible causes thread? It may answer some questions or rule out some possible causes.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1011677
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:05 AM   #8
951Tom
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10V is too low. You need at least 12.0V. Get a fuel pressure gauge on it and see what it reads.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:48 AM   #9
Dongotti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 951Tom View Post
10V is too low. You need at least 12.0V. Get a fuel pressure gauge on it and see what it reads.

agreed on the pressure check. I am leaning towards a fuel pump issue as I had a similar problem with my mini. It did the exact same thing with loss of power then failed on the highway. The obd2 check with the code reader may give you some codes related to loss of fuel such as misfire, fuel exceed acceptable range, etc.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:00 AM   #10
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You will NEVER get 12 Volts at the fuel pump while cranking. The cranking Voltage will drop below 11.5 Volts and with internal Voltage drop you are lucky if you end up with 11.0 Volts at the fuel pump while the engine is cranking.

Forget checking Voltages, fuel pumps are consumable. If the car has the original fuel pump it is past due for replacement.

You want the OBDFusion App and proper VeePeak interface from Amazon. Less than $30 for both. Android requires Bluetooth, iProducts requires Wifi.

DO NOT buy a cheap stand alone tool, an Actron or Innova tool, you want and need OBDFusion.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 03-15-2017 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:06 AM   #11
dmax
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Fuel pump seems like a good random guess. Nothing is forever.

It's an easy diy, though a second person will come in handy to help you get the ring off the pump...with you both striking from opposite sides in tandem. It'll make sense when you get there. Don't smoke!
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:11 PM   #12
ShearMechanism
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Hey everyone. Thanks for the good comments and suggestions. I got an update!

Got a simple code reader:

P0128 - Range/Performance Thermostat
P0171 - Fuel too lean bank 1
P0174 - Fuel too lean bank 2


Consistent with a fuel problem (and a bad thermostat on the coolant). A quick search says it could be the pump, (EDIT, or filter) or a vacuum leak. I wouldn't expect a bad line to cause a no start though? Just to run rough? Or is this wrong.

Thanks all!

Last edited by ShearMechanism; 03-15-2017 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:43 PM   #13
jfoj
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I understand you are new here and may not know what information to pay attention to, but I have been here a while.

Replace the fuel pump with a Siemens/VDO sending unit and pump, takes about 30 minutes and is easier than changing a tire, no need to even get under the car. EVERY E46 needs a replacement fuel pump at this point in its life. About $145 from www.bmaparts.com and you will have it on your doorstep in 2 days or less with standard shipping, if you order it today you will be driving this weekend. While the fuel filter SHOULD be replaced, it is NOT the cause of the no start condition, the fuel pump needs to be replaced BEFORE the fuel filters on these cars!

If you read these threads, it will have you covered 100%

Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

As I mentioned earlier, you NEED the OBDFusion App and VeePeak interface, EVERYONE that owns a 1996 and newer car or light truck needs this.

Once you get the OBDFusion App you NEED to read the PDF in this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097893

You will thank me later, if you actually read my threads, listen and follow my advice.

Good luck!
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 03-15-2017 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:32 PM   #14
ShearMechanism
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Resolution:

Bad fuel pump. Replaced fuel pump (and O-Ring!). Cranked first time, running much better now, no codes.

Thanks for the help and comments everyone!
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