E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2017, 09:54 PM   #21
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
Hmmmm. I think I have an XP laptop at work that I don't care about....


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics mobile app
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2017, 04:03 AM   #22
topher339
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 67
My Ride: 2001 M3
Best of luck.
topher339 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 09:55 PM   #23
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
"Pulsing" or "surging" in 3rd gear

Update #2
Got my scan tool. No codes at all
Disconnected the battery for a minute, no change
TPS tests fine.

I did find this thread that sounds like my issue

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...urging-feeling

Software update? Anyone else have this done. As I don't have any codes I don't want to drop a few hundred bucks at the steelership for no reason. Would an Indy shop be able to handle this?

That thread describes it as pulsing, which is probably more accurate. It is like I am lifting off the throttle and then hitting the gas again, but 200 times a second. When the pulsing hits, its frequency does not change with engine RPM.

I have discovered it is there in second, but the torque and quick acceleration hide it. Going up a steep hill makes it slightly more apparent. It is also there in fourth, but you really have to be paying attention.






Sent from my iPad using E46Fanatics

Last edited by bayos04; 02-21-2017 at 10:10 PM.
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 10:17 PM   #24
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 21,964
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=966614
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2017, 11:42 PM   #25
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
"Pulsing" or "surging" in 3rd gear

Thanks jfoj. Only one problem. My surging doesn't stop at 3000 rpm. It continues right up to redline. Do you think it is the same problem?


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics

Last edited by bayos04; 02-22-2017 at 12:24 AM.
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 12:25 AM   #26
MacLoGoS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: San Francisco CA
Posts: 37
My Ride: 1999 323i sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by topher339 View Post
Love the pre-71 models. Although, I was actually looking for a Camaro at the time... Simplicity is king with classic cars.
I have a 70 Camaro RS 4 speed. Decided to restore it and swapped a LS1 in it. Its the metal and body work that kills you on these!!
MacLoGoS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 05:35 AM   #27
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 21,964
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayos04 View Post
Thanks jfoj. Only one problem. My surging doesn't stop at 3000 rpm. It continues right up to redline. Do you think it is the same problem?
DME flash may be in order anyway given the model and year.

But the problem should not have come on out of nowhere, unless you have started to drive the car differently.

If you have OBDFusion you could do some Logging, but to monitor the Ignition Timing properly, you would want to use no more than 4 PID's for Logging.

If the timing is the problem it should be pretty clear if you can get a good Log.

Has any work been performed just before this problem showed up? I see this is a lower mileage car.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 02-22-2017 at 05:42 AM.
jfoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 11:02 AM   #28
topher339
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 67
My Ride: 2001 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLoGoS View Post
Its the metal and body work that kills you on these!!
Indeed. Specially if you live in a rust-prone area.
topher339 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 11:07 AM   #29
topher339
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 67
My Ride: 2001 M3
If a flash won't fix it, it might just be time to hand it off to a mechanic. You should be able to find a decent indy shop that specializes in BMWs.
topher339 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 02:33 PM   #30
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
Did some more testing this morning. I realized that if I shift into third above 3000 rpm it doesn't happen. It has to start in that 2500 range. Mine just doesn't stop at 3000 once it starts.

So I am thinking it really is that same issue.

I don't ever just take my car to a shop, Indy or otherwise. I have yet to pay a mechanic for anything in my 39 years, and don't plan on starting now. That being said, I will pay them to flash the DME and possibly a full scan that I can't do, but that would be the end of it. With all the experience on here and other forums the odds of even a good Indy shop figuring out a problem that I can't is slim, and will cost me a whole pile more $$$ in the long run. Nothing against mechanics, they exist for a reason.


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 02:39 PM   #31
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
Sorry, my app just updated and I missed your reply jfoj. I haven't played with the OBDfusion app enough. I will figure out how to log things and post them up when I have a chance.

The only thing that has been done in the last 6 months is a cooling system refresh, and I put in a GAS disa valve repair kit.

This is a very subtle problem, and as others have experienced, it is only when driven "moderately" hard. Meaning just idling around town, or really going hard (rpm always above 3000) it doesn't appear. So I may just not have noticed. I have only put 6000 kms on the car in about 9 months, so it isn't driven all that much (thus the low miles).


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 03:34 PM   #32
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 21,964
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Read the PDF in this thread about OBDFusion and Logging - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1097893

Your DME needs to be updated.

I will outline your issue.

Starting off in 1st gear and make a spirited run you have no problem. This is because the engine spins past 3k RPM and you shift at 5000-6500 RPM and the engine never drops back below 3k RPM. This means the engine RPM is out of the 2-3k RPM range where the timing Map problem is. The car runs well and performs as you expect it to. You think to yourself "wow, this thing runs good, why do I have this other problem?"

Driving around and start to accelerate in 3rd or 4th gear with the engine RPM under 3k and there may be a slight incline you will feel it and the more you tip the throttle in under 3k RPM the worse or more obvious the problem becomes. The lower the RPM and the further you tip in the throttle you can even get the car to "buck".

In 4th-6th gear if you tip into the throttle while under 3k RPM it may or may not happen depending on the load and road grade.

If you can find the "sweet spot" where it really acts up and you can start to tip the throttle in deep & hard but not fast, it will really act up, car feels like an anemic 4 cylinder, feels like misfiring, but never a misfire code. If you ever get the pedal to the floor while this is all going on and you have road available, the car will not pull for crap.

You NEVER hear the engine ping or knock, even with Regular fuel, you might hear an occasional knock or ping, but never when getting hard onto the throttle.

When coasting down a hill in gear and transitioning back into the throttle there is bucking.

If I am even 60% correct, UPDATE the DME!!!!
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 02-22-2017 at 04:19 PM.
jfoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 04:01 PM   #33
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
Bang on jfoj. Other than it never feels anemic. It still pulls fairly hard, but otherwise 100% accurate. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2017, 04:18 PM   #34
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 21,964
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Maybe you have not been able to get the anemic mode, it takes very specific driving conditions, bet I could get it to happen! Wait until you find out how the car runs after the DME update. Can you believe the car has been like this for 13 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DME reflash with the latest update is needed.

Granted there may be other underlying problems, but the DME update is the smartest first step.

ASK ME HOW I KNOW ALL OF THIS.

I dealt with this NOT on and E46 and NOT on a 6 cylinder. BMW F**KED up the Ignition Timing Maps for many models, many engines for many years.

I need to have my 2008 E70 X5 with a 4.8l flashed as well!!!
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 02-22-2017 at 04:20 PM.
jfoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 07:32 PM   #35
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
Hey jfoj, would a tune from active auto works or someone similar fix the problem as well. I have been really busy at work and have hardly driven the car in the last two months. I did talk to the stealership and it will be just shy of $200, and a major pain in the ass to get it there. I can get the aa cable and software for $400, do it at home, and gain some performance at the same time.

Thoughts?

Thanks again,
James


Sent from my iPad using E46Fanatics
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 09:19 PM   #36
jfoj
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 21,964
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5, E93
Here is the PROBLEM.

Almost ALL 3rd party DME flash programs extract the OE flash that is currently in the DME, then they tweak the timing, fuel and VANOS tables and then you flash this back into the DME.

The PROBLEM is Garbage In = Garbage Out, the screwed up Ignition Timing tables will typically be carried over and often the 3rd party tune is even worse then with the stock tune.

You REALLY need to update the DME before you make any DME changes with 3rd party performance updates.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 03-20-2017 at 09:45 PM.
jfoj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 09:22 PM   #37
bayos04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 186
Thank you very much for your assistance jfoj. Greatly appreciated.


Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
bayos04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use