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04 325i SMG charge pump problems, no start

20K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  xavi330i 
#1 ·
Hoping maybe others have had this problem...

About 2 weeks ago, the charge pump on the SMG started sounding a little slower than norm. Usually, when I unlock/disarm, it does its usual high-pitch buzz for about 4-5 seconds and off I go. It started taking longer to complete the "cycle", and sounded lower but gradually getting the job done. Almost like the battery didn't have th oomph to spool it up.

Well, it eventually stranded me one night after work. I go out, hit the button, and nothing. No pump noise. Problem is I park it in D, as instructed by the dealer, and set the p brake. So, with no pump pressure, the SMG won't go from D to N -- which means I can't start the damn thing.

Call roadside assistance and they send a "tech" to jump start it, thinking its the battery. I already told them my radio, headlights, etc all work ,but they try to jump it anyway. No help, of course, so then I wait for the tow truck. Well he can't tow it because he doesn't want to drag it up on the flatbed -- I didn't either as you can imagine. So it sits overnight.

Call the dealer service manager the next morning and tell him the 411. Momentum BMW in Houston. Well, he says he'll get a service tech to come to the car in a hour or so. I get to the office and try it again, and I get a very very faint pump noise, but it was enough to shift. Get it into D and take the car directly to the dealer.

They checked it out and reported no codes form comp. or SMG but said the fluid was low (BS) and that could cause the pump to not activate. Within 24 hours of leaving, it did it again but I'm now leaving it in N so I can at least start it up and then shift to D. Once started, the pump seems to work fine as I've had no other problems shifting, no lights, etc.

So, anyone out there have pump issues? Any tricks to get it into N should this happen again?

Thanks,
Jeff
'04 325i, 6spd SMG
 
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#2 ·
jkno325i said:
Hoping maybe others have had this problem...

About 2 weeks ago, the charge pump on the SMG started sounding a little slower than norm. Usually, when I unlock/disarm, it does its usual high-pitch buzz for about 4-5 seconds and off I go. It started taking longer to complete the "cycle", and sounded lower but gradually getting the job done. Almost like the battery didn't have th oomph to spool it up.

Well, it eventually stranded me one night after work. I go out, hit the button, and nothing. No pump noise. Problem is I park it in D, as instructed by the dealer, and set the p brake. So, with no pump pressure, the SMG won't go from D to N -- which means I can't start the damn thing.

Call roadside assistance and they send a "tech" to jump start it, thinking its the battery. I already told them my radio, headlights, etc all work ,but they try to jump it anyway. No help, of course, so then I wait for the tow truck. Well he can't tow it because he doesn't want to drag it up on the flatbed -- I didn't either as you can imagine. So it sits overnight.

Call the dealer service manager the next morning and tell him the 411. Momentum BMW in Houston. Well, he says he'll get a service tech to come to the car in a hour or so. I get to the office and try it again, and I get a very very faint pump noise, but it was enough to shift. Get it into D and take the car directly to the dealer.

They checked it out and reported no codes form comp. or SMG but said the fluid was low (BS) and that could cause the pump to not activate. Within 24 hours of leaving, it did it again but I'm now leaving it in N so I can at least start it up and then shift to D. Once started, the pump seems to work fine as I've had no other problems shifting, no lights, etc.

So, anyone out there have pump issues? Any tricks to get it into N should this happen again?

Thanks,
Jeff
'04 325i, 6spd SMG
This is the first problem with our system I've heard about? How are you turning it off in N without the warning beep blasting you? Low on fluid sounds like a reasonable answer/solution (where did the hydraulic fluid go?) and must be a BMW safe guard to prevent further trouble... Please report back when the problem is diagnosed - you must still be under warranty.
 
#3 ·
I do get the warning beep, but that is better than being stranded again. The pump fired up 3 out of 4 times today on restarts, but interestingly, it sounds different almost every time. I only mention that because it was previously consistent _every_ time. As the day went on, it got quieter and more strained each time.

There are no leaks that I can detect underneath and no odors from it burning off of anything. Still very much under warranty, thank goodness. It's a CPO car, and I purchased it with 21K on it. Rolled 29K today. I should also point out that while I drive it somewhat aggresively at times (open road, etc) I don't go around banging the launch control/acceleration assistance or doing anything that would harm the trans.

Thanks for any additional input.

Jeff
 
#4 ·
I would start with the pump relay, as it has been the weak point on these systems so far. They don't seem the handle the current too well and start to burn the contacts. This corrosion causes excessive voltage drop which can make pump run slowly or not at all.

The relay is in the E-box, and if memory serves it is the pinkish one by itself towards the front. You can pull it out and check the terminals and if you're feeling really ambitious even take it apart to inspect the internal contacts. When it's acting up, removing it, tapping it a couple of times, and reinstalling will normally get it working for a while. If this is your problem the fix is a new relay and possibly an updated wiring kit. As it sounds like you're still under new vehicle warranty, I'd make an apointment and take it in to the dealer. They should be able to figure it out from there.
 
#5 ·
i got a 2004 that just hit 23,000 miles and so far no major problems. Only a couple times it didn't want to shift into reverse, but once i let it roll for about an inch (in neutral) and tried again it worked. good luck and update us

Steven
 
#7 ·
This morning, the car wouldn't shift at all. Started right up cause it was in N to begin with, but moving the lever did nothing. Popped the hood and took a look at the relays. Pulled the pinkish one per ChevyGuy's advice and checked it out. Didn't see any corrosion but tapped away in hopes of some improvement. Buttoned it back up and started again. I got the faintest little buzz and shifted into R and rolled out. Drove directly back to the dealer...again. Shifted fine on the way.

Will let you guys know the result of this visit.

Just for grins, this is my third different service advisor and the service manager I was working with is now gone too. Not sure what to think about that. :)
 
#8 ·
Got the car back from Momentum on 5/25. Appears to be all fixed up again. This new pump is much quieter, and in fact I don't think I've heard it at all once it does the initial charge prior to startup. All good now. :)

Included the SIB #s to help out any future SMGers that get a bum pump. Thanks for all the info. Definitely helped when discussing the issue with the advisor.

Here is the tech info for job 1 and job 2:
Cust states when starting veh, it will not shift into 1st gear. CK and verified complaint (uh, yeah). Interrogated fault memory and found fault #4F6F Hydraulic pump, activation. As per SIP 23.04.06 replaced SMG hydraulic pump and retrofitted relay adaptor harness kit. Clear faults in system.
82-11-1-468-041 PRNTOSIN CHF 11S
23-42-7-507-107 PUMP

Cust states when unlocking veh, SMG pump will not activate (Cust has tapped relay and the Pump engaged once). CK and verified complaint, as per SIB 23.03.04 performed SMG pump relay adaptor harness kit retrofit
12-63-7-545-666 REP Cable Set
 
#9 ·
I've had the same experiencea and am documenting my experience here in case other folks end up in the same situation. My little 325i has a little over 97K miles.

About a month ago I came out of a restaurant and I couldn't get the car to go into neutral in order to start it. I came back the next morning with my truck and a pair of jumper cables thinking the battery might have been gone. The lights were running a little dim. After hooking the jumper cables up, viola. It would go into neutral and I could start it and proceeded to drive it home.

Skip forward to this last Wednesday. i was driving home from work and an alarm went off; a single beep. I noticed a few minutes later that there was no D next to the 6. The car had put itself into manual mode. I pulled off the highway. I restarted the car and it acted normal again.

Moving on to Thursday. I drove it to a new position/job interview; thankfully it made it there. When I went back to the parking lot the darn thing did it again. It was in gear and would not go to neutral so that I could start it. I got a lift to my normal job from my wife. That night I started reading about what the problem might be.

On Friday I took the day off to troubleshoot it. I got to the car and it started normally. I drove it towards home and when I was about a block away the darn thing went straight into Neutral and popped the error; a COG or GEAR symbol with an exclamation mark (!) in the middle. I popped the hazard light and coasted to a stop in the middle of a busy street. yay BMW. After turning the car off and sitting there for a minute I started it again and was allowed to put it into 1st gear. I could then manually operate the shifter and decided to limp a few blocks home.

On Saturday I went out to the ultimate driving machine :)thumbdwn:) and could not even get it out of neutral. I did note that there was definitely still a WEEEEEEEE sound of the hydraulic system priming itself when I unlocked the door. It's on a tow truck right now to BMW El Cajon for servicing. I can't even imagine how expensive this might escalate to.

When I was researching the problem I noted that a lot of SMG owners were writing about the relay (12631742690) and the seeming necessity to change it from time to time. I went to a BMW dealer this morning and picked up a 12631742690. So, I used a torx 20 to access the relay compartment on the drivers side near the firewall (under the hood). I noticed on my 325i that instead of a salmon relay in the SMG position there was a pastel orange one, part number is (61368366646). It has different pin placement and different electrical engineering markings. I remembered seeing a PDF file about rewiring the system on the M series to make use of the 12631742690 so I printed out a copy and went to the garage to compare. The pin outs that they described did not match mine so I decided it was not wise to start hacking the electrical system up in order to test it out.

I'll keep posting the information about the progress in case it helps another 3 series owner deal with these problems. If you have a SMG that is outside of warranty then you might consider getting rid of the car. I've been finding a lot of complaints and notes about keeping a spare relay in the glove box for this situation. Seriously, you should never have to do that with a BMW. A Model T ford; maybe. I think I'm a little lucky that I've gotten to 97K; I should have probably traded it in a year ago...
 
#10 · (Edited)
On Saturday I went out to the ultimate driving machine :)thumbdwn:) and could not even get it out of neutral. I did note that there was definitely still a WEEEEEEEE sound of the hydraulic system priming itself when I unlocked the door. It's on a tow truck right now to BMW El Cajon for servicing. I can't even imagine how expensive this might escalate to.
...
Your first mistake was taking the car to a dealership. Lesson 1a. of BMW ownership (unless money is no object), is find an independent shop unless you are under warranty. Southern California is full of them.

The fact the car went to El Cajon to start, will just about guarantee you will see a bill exceeding $1,000. The dealerships rarely diagnose problems. They prefer to throw new system parts at it (e.g. pump, accumulator) rather than spend time finding the cause.

On that note, the comments you made regarding the starting issue, and getting into and out of Neutral, make me think you may have a charge/power problem. If the car went out of gear and into neutral only with jumper cables and another battery, something is amiss. The hydraulic unit may have had (or not) enough juice to prime the pump, but not to move it in and out of gear.

If I were you, I would:

1.Diagnose your charging system problem, prior to even thinking about the SMG faults. BMW's do not like electrical demons!! Get a trickle charger, and charge the battery on the slow charge over night (please remove it from car prior...sorry some guys still think it's ok to charge a battery while it's in the car)

2.Before you allow the dealership to replace ANYTHING SMG related (again, unless you are under CPO warranty) request ALL stored and real time fault codes.

3. After you get the codes (if they give them to you), tow your car to one of the several reputable independent shops in SD/SoCal and post your code results here. AAA will tow you anywhere up to 100 miles on their $29/year package.

Have fun!
Mike
 
#11 ·
Your first mistake was thinking I was asking for feedback. It's true that I was just sharing info. I'm a bettin' man; you have a tendency to think most folks are not nearly as smart as you and that they don't do their homework.

Thanks mate for your opinion on dealer vs. independent. I'd considered it but my experience between the two types doesn't quantify a difference. I've taken my BMW, Vette, Ducati to dealers and indy's; same with other cars and bikes I've owned around the world. In my opinion it usually boils down to getting to know your service manager, interviewing him about his experience, and talking to the mechanic with respect. Those folks appreciate it since most of the time they have to put up with angry folks most of the time. Having some good manners also seems to help quite a lot (http://www.history.org/almanack/life/manners/rules2.cfm). If you or someone else wants to recommend stellar (STELLAR) indy performers I'll listen but don't cut down El Cajon unless you have some real experience with them. (Dang, I just defended a dealership - I should get a lot of karma for that). Consider the idea that if you ever do have to work with a dealer that you have the right to demand that they prove to you that their analysis is based on some quantifiable fact...same goes for an indy. If you use something like American Express you can actually get their bulldogs on your side to help negotiate a problem in the terms of payment. I don't use it often but have had to pull that flag before...

WRT the charging issue. I hooked a voltmeter to the car and am getting good charge out of it (avg. 12.92). I think the battery was a coincidence and needed to be replaced near the end of its normal life.

I did hook up a code reader (Kiwi wireless and REV on iphone). Code was transmission related (general). I probably should have written it down but cleared it from memory after googling about the problem in the parking lot.

As far as AAA towing...it's 7 miles unless you pay an extra fee to make it 100 miles. I usually don't drive buggy cars (except for my vette; maintenance monster (esp. that serpentine belt on the vortech) - not really good for much but stomping M's - lol) but am beginning to feel and think the engineering on this SMG interface might not be that great. There's a lot of reports of problems if you haven't noticed... It is what it is and I bought into the gimmick just like everybody else who bought one with an SMG and thought it was neat. Really thought the little paddles would be interesting in the twisties...do I use them in my daily commute, or ever,...nope. Something seems to be missing in the tactile feedback. I think it's because I'm missing a clutch. lol

So, uhm thanks?
 
#12 ·
Closing out my part of the thread. Turned out to be the pump.

I was pretty sure it had been priming fine since I was purposefully listening for it. After getting it towed on a flatbed I went down to the dealer to explain what was up and upon unlocking the door I got nothing but quiet. First time I recall hearing nothing at an unlock. I got behind the wheel and noted that I couldn't get it out of 1st gear...hence could not get into neutral and start it. Previously it was stuck in neutral and would not go into gear.

The folks at BMW South County were spot on helpful and were more than willing to explain everything they were doing in technical detail and work with me on the pricing. Shocking. After everything was done I was given a 2 year warranty on the pump and the replaced relay. Parts and labour were just a smidge over $600.00. I probably could have done it myself but compared to my time and familiarity with the task I think the price was fair; especially with a warranty to back up the work.

After the replacement I can tell a difference in the amount of time the pump takes to prime. It's a lot faster now and not as loud. Think I might keep it...

In talking to the service manager I did get him to admit that the SMG has been crap and is difficult to diagnose and work on. I was really shocked to hear a service manager admit to that and laughed when he backpedaled and said that the newer SMGs are really well done. Pretty sure I will just stick with a manual on my next BMW. Replacing a master and/or slave cylinder is a lot easier if they go bad.

Cheers and hope you only have to replace a relay.
 
#13 ·
Thanks so much for posting your experiences! I feel a lot better, as I have the same issue right now.

Me: 2004 325i SMG w/ 132k miles.

Problems started about two- three weeks ago, and have be sporadic. Mainly not being able to change gears upon startup, or the car beeping and going into limp mode. I had it looked at, and we replaced the battery and relay. This has not solved the problem, and I think it is the pump, based on your experience.

Glad to hear it was only $600. Hopefully I will get the same treatment.

Thanks!
 
#14 · (Edited)
Ha! My smg failed last month @ 84,000 miles. Car will not start due to tranny fault code. Diagnosis put the cause of failure on the shift actuator. Very, very expensive part. On top of that, clutch actuator seal had a small leak, future failure and very expensive. The pump also does not sound as strong as it used to, very quiet but it does prime and it's expensive.

After assessing all the cost of repair, I opted for the indy to convert it to manual. The conversion will include new Clutchmaster Stage 1 clutch kit w/ 12lb flywheel. :)

SMG converted to MT = peace of mind
Once I receive all my old SMG parts, I will put them up FS.
 
#16 ·
So did you converted your ride to manual? did you swap gearbox or use the existing gearbox and just add gear linkage, pedals and etc???

I don't think anyone has ever done it ...
 
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