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Yet another "Replaced Valve Cover gasket and still Leaks"

129K views 206 replies 57 participants last post by  Newbimer 
#1 ·
So I replaced my VCG 8 months ago, and ever since then I just keep revisiting it trying to resolve the minor oil leak it had. So far I've revisited it 10+ times ! I'm getting really sick of this! This is what I did

Attempt 1: Installed the VCG without using an RTV sealant (Used OEM Reinz Gasket). I Oiled the gasket a bit and tightened the bolts to 10 nm.

Attempt 2: Re-installed, tried to replace rubber seals, but I noticed the ones I got are slightly different then those that were originally on the VCG (the neck of the seals I purchased is shorter than those on the car). I Broke a stud in the process, and decided not to replace rubber seals.

Attempt 3 : Reinstalled, replaced the broken stud and the bolt.

Attempt 4: Reinstalled applying a bit of RTV silicone sealant (Black) on the half moons

Attempt 5: (Getting pretty desperate here) Reinstalled and applied sealant to the entire contact surface of the gasket!

Attempt 6: Removed the old Sealant from the engine and the gasket (scraped it off) , used Red RTV sealant instead on half moons.

[FYI: there were various re-installation attempts between the above attempts]

Now, my next attempt will be this weekend. I figured I probably messed up something when I tried to removed the old RTV sealant from the gasket, so I got a new gasket! I'm replacing all rubber seals. I also always felt that some bolts didn't tighten as much as others, specifically the ones on the left side of the gasket, so I'm guessing oil must have leaked somehow to the studs and the lubrication was screwing with my torque wrench's measurement, so I will degrease the studs and the bolts this time! I will thoroughly clean the surface of the gasket and the engine!

Now, before I do this, and I am getting really really really tired already, are there any recommendations to solve this oil leak that has been driving me nuts and making my car smell like burned oil !
 
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#105 ·
Subject the 10 from the eighteen to get 8 ft-lbs of torque for the VC nuts.

Don't walk in the path of many before you who have broken off the head studs.

Tighten down the nuts until they bottom out and then just a slight bit more pressure to insure you have tension there.
 
#109 ·
Hi Folks

Sorry to revive this thread after being idle for more than a month but I have a question regarding vcg replacement....

I've seen mention of both RTV red and RTV black being used in various threads on this topic. Both are sold by loctite and both look to be quite similar in terms of their temperature tolerances. Which is favored/recommended or does it not really matter between the two?

Thanks much!
-Greg-
 
#111 ·
From experience, I like the black better. Used red with no problems either. Blue is not as flexible as those two, so don't use it. Black dries more rubbery than the red, that's why it's my #1 choice.

Look for two things
high temperature
O2 sensor safe
Both red and black has these two properties. In fact, red is rated higher in temperature, but I still think the black is the better of the two.
 
#112 ·
#113 · (Edited)
Did this last weekend.. I used Permatex black and used on half moons and places where it was leaking. I made sure the contact surfaces were as clean as possible with no gasket residue or grime, used some brake cleaner to get off any oil & grease before applying gasket. My old gasket literally felt like brittle plastic, had no elasticity left just broke off wherever i touched.

Put everything together (tightened cover bolts hand-tight at first, then after 1 hour torqued it down) then waited 20 hours to cure before starting car.

I wiped everything around the cover so I'll know if it leaked anywhere, then drove a few days.
Checked for any leaks after each drive (wait for engine to cool then feel around), and none was found thank god.

Here's with cover off at 120k miles, looked clean made me happy.
 
#118 · (Edited)
Stop right now

there is yet a third thread out there that discusses this and many on that thread tell of VR gaskets that leak soon after installing them. Mine is leaking now at 16K miles.
I bought a genuine BMW from the dealer last week and it will go on soon.
Strongly advise you to do the same.


Also look back to post #93 on this thread.


BTW, BMW gasket from dealer says: "Made in Hungary" My dealer has price of $52 currently, and they usually don't price gouge.
 
#121 ·
there is yet a third thread out there that discusses this and many on that thread tell of VR gaskets that leak soon after installing them. Mine is leaking now at 16K miles.
My fault for not researching this a bit before purchasing. Lesson learned.


No need. The compression and heat will make the gasket sit flush. U rather have extra play then for a gasket to have no play at all (too short).
Anyway, the OE is a little more pliable, but honestly, if you use rtv in the entire half moons...on the vanos seam...tighten down in stages, in the pattern...you might stand a chance. VR had to have known and fixed this issue.

As far as the height of it, I'd been thinking about that and think that a big part of the seal comes not just at the bottom, but at the top of the gasket where it sits in vc itself...so make sure that groove is really cleaned out well.
I "dry-fit" the VR gasket just to see what it'd look like, and tightened down a couple of the bolts (shy of the torque value). It looked like the gasket was compressing pretty good, so I decided to install it. Doing some other maintenance on the car as well, so it'll be a bit of time before I can report on whether it leaks or not.
 
#120 ·
Well, there were reports of the VR above changing rubber supplier...something like that.

I put my OE on (who knows who made it?)...anyway, it doesn't leak now...but I did drive too soon after rtv...damn!

Anyway, the OE is a little more pliable, but honestly, if you use rtv in the entire half moons...on the vanos seam...tighten down in stages, in the pattern...you might stand a chance. VR had to have known and fixed this issue.

As far as the height of it, I'd been thinking about that and think that a big part of the seal comes not just at the bottom, but at the top of the gasket where it sits in vc itself...so make sure that groove is really cleaned out well.

IDK what to say, OP. If it's not too late, you're out $20 and about $40 for one from dealer. It's a 100K part or so...but it's not that tough of a job either...so six of one, half a dozen of another.

Don't overtighten screws. Down to the stop in stages and then stop.
 
#124 · (Edited)
Reporting back with my VR VCG.
"at least 3k miles later"

Mine has not leaked again since i went back in there. I was expecting a warped VC, because this time i speak of was the third time opening it up to figure out why the reoccurring leak, which was specifically at the back passenger side corner of the VCG.

I described my method for tightening, and Dmax was kind enough to read my entire post, and had pointed out that i was tightening in an incorrect pattern.


Cliffs:

New Gasket leaked...Twice.

Third attempt reusing the second VR VCG, and Permatex® Ultra Black

Helpful insight from my only friend in Jersey.

Tightened all center studs first then alternate between, and out to the corners.

Perhaps I got lucky and got a good VR VCG, otherwise i would have had two different problems:

1. Bad tightening method
2. VR VCG from a "bad batch"

Just something to consider.
 
#125 ·
^Maybe just got lucky with your gasket, or your tightening pattern was spot on. Still, someone reading the thread should not risk it and go for a VR gasket just to save a few bucks. The problem with Victor Reinz gaskets is wide spread.

Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer App
 
#126 ·
^Do not mistake my post as a defense on behalf of Victor, but more of a point to follow the proper torque pattern.

I didn't realize VR was a much cheaper priced gasket, maybe my supplier assumed i was trying to save money; however they know me personally, so they know me NOT to be someone who would sacrifice quality, for a few bucks..dunno, maybe that is just what they stock.
 
#127 ·
unless VR has the wrong shape or size, I am going to defend VR and going to say most leaking gaskets are due to improper user install.

I once had a leaking VCG (OE/Genuine BMW) and I found out that it was leaking because I didn't install the gasket dry. I decided to "lube" the gasket.
My friend also had a leaking VCG (OE/Genuine BMW) and it was leaking because the gasket fell off its groves on the cover toward the back.

VR is an OES for gasket and gasket makers for major european automaker (BMW, VW, etc)
 
#129 · (Edited)
Now that you mention it I was shocked to watch the youtube vid this afternoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnz4utkonMo
where they made the really amateur mistake of LUBING the gasket! Engine 101: install gaskets dry with a little bit of sealer if appropriate. If you lube you create a path for the oil to travel thru. (exception is gaskets where they will twist on)
Kinda presumptuous to assume that all of us with a leak installed incorrectly. We're not the one making it up as we go. We live and breathe this stuff or we wouldn't be here, and don't use a pogo stick to repair our cars.
 
#128 ·
I didn't take your post as such. I used Victor Reinz in the past with no problems. They are not "that much cheaper" than the competition either, maybe about $5 cheaper than Goetze. However, after I had a problem with my VR gasket, I went online only to see many people having similar problems with their gaskets. For example, see jbeurotech's posts above.

I agree though that bolt tightening pattern is an important aspect of this job. Gotta be double cautious.

Just a friendly warning who

Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer App
 
#131 · (Edited)
If we stop to think why this might be so, it could be some bad batches of gaskets. Perhaps some were subbed out to a contractor (country) that strayed too far from the VR normal standards. We'll probably never know 'cause they aren't gonna talk.
So maybe you could get lucky and never have problem. I ignored the warning when people first began to talk, but then when I see weeping at only 16K miles on my gasket, I have to think maybe people are on to something.
Even one bad run of product can certainly ruin a reputation. Look at all the bad press it's received here. Who who hears this is gonna reach for a VR again when it comes time to install a new gasket?

And perhaps some EU gaskets are all OK, and only the bad ones exist in the US?
 
#132 ·
Valve cover gasket installation

All valve cover and oil pan gaskets constructed from rubber should be put on dry. This includes cleaning oil from the surfaces of the cover and the engine before installation. I cannot speak for Elring, but in the case of Victor Reinz gaskets, if a sealant is needed, it'll be included in the package with the gasket. Both Victor Reinz and Elring are major suppliers to the OE European car manufacturers and in every likelihood, your BMW has gaskets on it made by both companies since OEM platforms are typically supplied, piece by piece.
 
#135 ·
All valve cover and oil pan gaskets constructed from rubber should be put on dry. This includes cleaning oil from the surfaces of the cover and the engine before installation. I cannot speak for Elring, but in the case of Victor Reinz gaskets, if a sealant is needed, it'll be included in the package with the gasket. Both Victor Reinz and Elring are major suppliers to the OE European car manufacturers and in every likelihood, your BMW has gaskets on it made by both companies since OEM platforms are typically supplied, piece by piece.
Good to see you joined the forum, and the conversation. I was just over at Bavarian Auto Parts in North Hollywood, and I asked them if they ever had any complaints against VR Gaskets, and they hadn't. Funny, they did say that people often pass on the crush.washers, because they feel like they are an extra expense that isnt necessary.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself when i say my first replacement elring gasket leaked, as did my VR replacement, and this was due to a simple mistake on the tightening pattern.
 
#138 ·
All valve cover and oil pan gaskets constructed from rubber should be put on dry. This includes cleaning oil from the surfaces of the cover and the engine before installation. I cannot speak for Elring, but in the case of Victor Reinz gaskets, if a sealant is needed, it'll be included in the package with the gasket. Both Victor Reinz and Elring are major suppliers to the OE European car manufacturers and in every likelihood, your BMW has gaskets on it made by both companies since OEM platforms are typically supplied, piece by piece.
So given that fact that VR gasket is not supplied with a sealant, do you still recommend installation of your gaskets without it?

That's pretty optimistic if you'd ask me. BMW does recommend installation with a sealant around the half moons regardless of the brand of the gasket.
 
#134 ·
Dear Victor,
It's an honor and a pleasure to have you comment here on our humble e46 board.
Who knew VR lived in Ann Arbor?
And you really drive a Ford? GT-40?
Well, VR is a division on Dana Corp, which has offices in Michigan, so it's not inconceivable to think that he could work there. Probably drives an Explorer or Mustang.
 
#146 ·
I'm really really really fuucking hating the valve cover gasket replacements now. I've done this 3 times on my wife's car with OE gaskets purchased from the dealer and the fuuking thing is still leaking, just confirmed today. Now, keep in mind that I've done the following on this car in the past year and a half and verified that these areas are NOT leaking:
OFHG
Vanos line and washers
Oil pan gasket
Entire CCV

I had power washed the sh(*t out of the engine before doing the oil pan gasket job, and the exhaust manifold heat shields were clean as can be. Now the rear one on the passenger side has some oil on it and I can see it around the VC bolts there. What the FUUUUK? I've done the freakin tightening method to a T, and used the O2 sensor safe permatex silicone the last time, and it is not leaking from where the sealant as as far as I can see. Coming from literally right above one of the last bolts in the back. I suppose it might be coming from the rear half moon areas, but I won't be sure until I take it off.

Thinking of taking it off and reinstalling it, not replacing it, since it's been basically about a year. Do you all suggest that I completely remove the valve cover since some oil leaked through, totally clean the gasket and cover, let it dry, scrape off the permatex and then do the entire thing over again, making sure the VCG bolts are tight enough? I had not been "bottoming out" the bolts due to the many stories of breaking/stripping them, but did torque them all to spec. Rear ones did get torqued, but I was using a few extensions and a wobbly, so I am not sure how accurate that really is.

I CANNOT BE SPENDING ANY MORE F** MONEY ON OIL, IT IS SLOWLY MAKING ME GO BROKE!! I want this wagon to last forever and really really want this bIItch to stop leaking oil. I really thought I had her buttoned up recently after all the work I did (even changed valve cover cap and gasket too).

F.
 
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