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View Poll Results: RAV4 or CR-V or Cherokee?
2017 Toyota RAV4 Limited Hybrid 4 12.50%
2017 Honda CR-V Touring AWD 1.5L 11 34.38%
2017 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk L-Plus V6 6 18.75%
Go fvck yourself 11 34.38%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-17-2017, 12:50 PM   #141
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What features does the Rogue have that the CRV doesn't? If you're going to lease I'd just go with whatever you like or even an RDX like Dave did.



My parents bought a 2016 Outback and it's quite nice. I'd almost go for one of those over a Forester but both are quite good now. Also, they are awesome in the snow.
CRV is out of the running because mom didn't like the sound of the turbo wheeze and the white leather (tan not available). The only things the Rogue has are the cinnamon leather and panoramic roof. The CR-V has the brake hold feature which is really convenient in stop and go traffic; although I haven't tested the Rogue's advanced cruise control which I heard also helps in stop and go traffic (the CR-V's cc doesn't cover stop and go speeds, but it automatically steers the car to the center of the lane at high speeds, super helpful during long, empty-road road trips--Rogue doesn't have that; just a lane departure warning).

I still need to test drive the Rogue on the highway to hear the sound of its CVT which I heard is kinda noisy (Honda's and Toyota's aren't).

...but now I'm curious about the Subaru Forester.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:08 PM   #142
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Buying an Audi would be playing the stock market. The Nissan is every bit as good and reliable as the Toyota it just doesn't have as much market share. There are millions of Nissans running all over the world, just happens that Toyota is more popular in the US. If you like the Nissan features, comfort and drivability better then go for it. There will be no loss on reliability.

If you want to play the stock market buy an Audi, Jag or Land Rover.


That's patently false for their CVT cars. Their reliability is less than Toyota and it's enough to be a consideration.


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Old 05-17-2017, 01:21 PM   #143
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^exactly my concern. But it was comforting to see that Nissan doubled its powertrain warranty for CVTs from 2008-2010 Rogues. Still a PITA though that I could easily avoid by sticking with Toyota.


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Old 05-17-2017, 02:36 PM   #144
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Please drive the Sportage SX. It is LOADED. Automatic***8203; high beams, lane departure, collision warning, etc. Panorama roof, heated and cooled front seats, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, reclining rear seats, plenty of power and torque. Yes, fuel economy is not as good- unless your mom's driving a lot, does it really matter?

The interior isn't as nice as the CX9 Signature Edition, it's more like the Audi Q5. Squared off steering wheel, nice sculpted seats, etc.

I would personally never buy a CRV, because they're the automotive equivalent of a toaster. It's like an appliance. It'll get the job done, but there is nothing sexy about it.


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Old 05-17-2017, 04:12 PM   #145
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I would personally never buy a CRV, because they're the automotive equivalent of a toaster. It's like an appliance. It'll get the job done, but there is nothing sexy about it.
Yeah, the RAV4 is even more of a toaster, hence my reservations about it. Mom does a fair amount of driving; averages between 17-20k kms per year. She loves not having to go to the gas station often, and was hoping she could go even less than she did for the 2008 Civic, which is a tough car to beat, and might even be unreasonable to expect out of a compact SUV. But the Toyota Hybrid puts up better numbers on paper.

My job is to convince mom that she would enjoy driving a lot more through more bells and whistles at a cheaper price (i.e., Rogue) or have better safety (crash test) and snow performance and consumer ratings (as well as all the bells and whistles and comfy seats) in a Subaru Forester (which I haven't driven yet so not even sure if that is in contention).

I would have driven the Kia by now but it's WAY out of my way. Haven't called to ask if they'd pick me up but highly unlikely because of their peasant clientele (lol). The SX Turbo would be out though; would need to go with the non-turbo.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:23 PM   #146
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I would have driven the Kia by now but it's WAY out of my way. Haven't called to ask if they'd pick me up but highly unlikely because of their peasant clientele (lol). The SX Turbo would be out though; would need to go with the non-turbo.
If you're not looking at the turbo, you can skip the Kia. The top trim level, and all the accompanying technology, is only available with the turbo motor.

I was appalled at how bare and plain the RAV4 interior was, especially for what they're charging for it.

If those two are out, I'd say it's a toss-up between the Rogue and the Subaru.

I personally don't mind the Cherokee Trailhawk, after having rented one this past spring, but it's going to be much worse on gas, and probably overkill in terms of offroad capability for your mom.



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Old 05-17-2017, 04:56 PM   #147
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At this point I'm totally following whatever OT tells me. I'm liking this advice.

Other than Sam, who else thinks I need to ignore all those bells and whistles and go for the long-term reliability play? Toyota feels like a T-bill whereas Nissan feels like I'm playing the stock market, lol. And boy, I love to bet on tech stock.

The CRV is still the smarter choice over the other two, as it doesnt have any reliability issues OR the blandness, just has a slightly buzzy motor. If I HAD to choose between those 3, I would go with the CRV. We didn't have to, but wanted the Honda bulletproofness, which is why we got the RDX, but again, out of the 3, I would say that the small buzz in the CRV is a small price to pay for damn near perfect everything else.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:06 PM   #148
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^agreed, if this was for me, I'd take the Trailhawk V6 and call it a day. If I remotely cared about long term bulletproofness and fuel efficiency, CRV hands down, also because chip , and obvious amazing features.

I agree Adamo, it's the Rogue so far and now I'm gonna try the Subie, which similarly equipped costs $1,400 more than the Rogue, but I think there's a reason why it's the #1 ranked compact SUV on consumerreports.org; way outperforms the Rogue in the crash safety ratings.

It pains me to support my mom's love of Toyota, because my late father loved and always drove Toyotas (Celica in the 80s and the Cressida in the 90s) and I currently own a 4Runner which mom loves driving, so there's that (I split away from the trend with my 2000 Civic Si and 1997 Prelude + dreams of s2k). So my mom loves that brand, but it's a bitter pill to swallow the (relatively) crappy interior and features...mind you, it's a massive step up from my mom's bare-bones 2008 Civic EX sedan, so maybe I should look at it that way.

I might encourage her to dump it and go for a newer RAV4 when it's overhauled in ~2020. Do you guys recommend a lightly used 2016 RAV4, in that case? (if the intention is to dump it as soon as RAV4 catches up with the CRV in terms of amenities)?
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:22 PM   #149
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Maybe consider a lightly used RX if you want to keep it in the toyota family, or maybe that smaller than RX one, whatever it is, the NX?
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:45 PM   #150
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I would personally never buy a CRV, because they're the automotive equivalent of a toaster. It's like an appliance. It'll get the job done, but there is nothing sexy about it.
That's the point though. For people who want to get from point A to point B as cheaply and easily as possible, there really aren't any better options. Fortunately for automakers, people who see cars as an appliance and nothing more make up a staggering percentage of the buying market. Enthusiasts are a very very small percentage which is why Honda sells 500k CRV's and 0 S2000's.

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I might encourage her to dump it and go for a newer RAV4 when it's overhauled in ~2020. Do you guys recommend a lightly used 2016 RAV4, in that case? (if the intention is to dump it as soon as RAV4 catches up with the CRV in terms of amenities)?
If you are planning to dump something in 3 years then just lease it. Buying isn't worth your time in that case. If you want something that'll last forever with minimal worry and care then it's either Toyota or Honda. If it were up to me between those two, it would be Honda without even a small amount of debate. The RAV4 is a giant POS for what they are charging for it, CRV is better in every way...plus tuning it will get you more power if you want. Also, I've never heard anyone describe any turbo motor as "wheezy", usually those are the NA motors.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:57 PM   #151
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lol maybe "wheezy" was the wrong choice of word...perhaps "whiney" would be better?
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:18 PM   #152
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Surprised you can hear the turbo on the CRV. In the '17 330i I had for a few days there was zero turbo noise. I would think Honda would be more focused on eliminating the noise.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:33 PM   #153
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You do get that little bit of spool noise, but it's mostly just the nature of the minor rattle of an econobox 1.5L.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:41 PM   #154
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I actually don't remember it from my test drive and if I did hear it I would have thought it was cool. Mom is more sensitive to these things.


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Old 05-18-2017, 03:18 PM   #155
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Just test drove the fully loaded Subaru Forester 2.5L Touring and I have to say WOW. Not the prettiest to look at externally--a bit boxy--but that gives it the best visibility out of all the models I've driven in the segment. And the interior was refined as fuuuuu.





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Old 05-18-2017, 03:24 PM   #156
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MSRP: $35,060
Truecar: $32,031

RAV4 MSRP: $36,820
Truecar: $33,786

Subaru has a $2,000 cash incentive in Canada (MSRP: CAD$37,295 / invoice: CAD$34,216 minus cash incentive = CAD$32,216. RAV4 invoice in Canada is: CAD$38,813). CAD$6,600 gap for a ton more in car; I think it's a no-brainer.

Subaru is the lightest out of all, too, at 3,402 lbs. curb weight. Rounding out the specs:

Subaru HP: 170 / TQ: 174
Toyota (hybrid) HP: 194 / TQ: 206 / curb weight: 3950
Nissan HP: 170 / TQ: 175 / curb weight: 3,627
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:12 PM   #157
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It's a shame subaru stopped using turbos on those things, they were pretty badass. They also use haldex AWD systems which aren't my favorite, but are basically the standard in the segment so it is what it is. Solid winter vehicle for sure. Having said that, we factory ordered my mom a fully loaded renegade limited with every option except the my sky roof (which is why we had to factory order, all the fully loaded models had the roof option and we didn't want it) and she loves it. Comfortable, great materials, tons of room, adequate engine, excellent in bad weather, and cool although love it or hate it looks. My mom thinks all cars look the same, so she likes unique looking cars. She loves mini, which is too small for her, like the countryman, but it was 10k more than the Jeep (28500 out the door) for no real reason.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:26 PM   #158
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Subie looks nice esp in white over brown.

Haldex isn't the greatest in the snow and even worse on ice but Subaru doesn't use Haldex anyway.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:01 PM   #159
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Subie looks nice esp in white over brown.

Haldex isn't the greatest in the snow and even worse on ice but Subaru doesn't use Haldex anyway.
Hmmm, for some reason I thought subaru also switched to haldex, you are correct, they still use a viscous clutch. TIL.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:43 PM   #160
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Subie looks nice esp in white over brown.
Yep. Seems like a no-brainer.
I approve. ***128077;


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