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Old 08-08-2013, 08:21 PM   #1
Act of God
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Hipsters on Food Stamps (long read)

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/...od_stamps.html

Not going to link it because the entry is pretty massive. I found it pretty interesting and the author touched upon how our system works, why we look at things certain ways, etc. Guy has a right bias, admitted, but everything seemed very fair and his psychiatric perspective is a fresh take on things IMO.

If you have some time, worth it.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:22 PM   #2
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It is going to take an act of god to fix this world

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Old 08-08-2013, 08:26 PM   #3
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It is going to take an act of god to fix this world

Where have you been? I was just thinking of you earlier this week while I had several glasses of wine on my flight.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:32 PM   #4
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I was SurreyF1 for about a year, I'm back now, and I'm back hard. Working on the car as we speak, hopefully a thread summarizing this project I have will be ready in a month or so. Back on topic of hipsters with food stamps
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
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http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/...od_stamps.html

Not going to link it because the entry is pretty massive. I found it pretty interesting and the author touched upon how our system works, why we look at things certain ways, etc. Guy has a right bias, admitted, but everything seemed very fair and his psychiatric perspective is a fresh take on things IMO.

If you have some time, worth it.
I'll concur with part of it and contradict part of it.

First the contradiction. I am a theatre major working quite well as an engineer in tech making well into six figures. So to say that those with liberal arts education are not employable in the "hard sciences" is a fallacy. Some of the best and brightest folks I have worked with in tech for over a quarter of a century were liberal arts majors. When it comes to the real world, they can bring different perspectives and ways of looking at problems and finding solutions that the more regimented "hard science" types often can't.

Are they employable, yes they are. The problem is often those doing the hiring were/are "hard science" grads and immediately disqualify anybody who is not like them. So the potential employer is losing out just as much as the potential employee.

This gets to the concurrence. I concur that the college system is a joke. It is no longer education. It is no longer the pursuit of knowledge. It is no longer the modern equivalent of the Trivium and Quadrivium. It is "Hey, pay us X amount of money and jump through these standardized hoops and we will give you slip of paper that potential employers might like." That is a farce. That is dark comedy.

Yes, people have to want to work. And if you can't get a job in you major of philosophy or micro-biology or insert_major_here, ya gotta suck it up and take a job doing something else. Life is a b!tch.

Yes, PHDs don't mean squat. Know plenty that are really smart and can actually produce, know even more that I don't even want doing "You want fries with that." They are perfectly adapt in ivory towers...the real world..eh..not so much. Although I have worked with a person with a PHD in medival art history who has got wicked programming skills. So again, The sheepskin don't make the person, the person makes the person.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:08 PM   #6
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I actually read that before, when this dude referenced it in a Cracked article I read during my lunch break. But, to be honest, I hated reading it. The writing style makes it too hard to follow his train of thought. He rambles a lot. And he doesn't break up his text very well.

I agree with the fact that most college "educations" have become worthless, but goddamn, there's a better way of arguing the point.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:25 PM   #7
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I actually read that before, when this dude referenced it in a Cracked article I read during my lunch break. But, to be honest, I hated reading it. The writing style makes it too hard to follow his train of thought. He rambles a lot. And he doesn't break up his text very well.

I agree with the fact that most college "educations" have become worthless, but goddamn, there's a better way of arguing the point.
well he does reside in academia!
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:37 PM   #8
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This gets to the concurrence. I concur that the college system is a joke. It is no longer education. It is no longer the pursuit of knowledge. It is no longer the modern equivalent of the Trivium and Quadrivium. It is "Hey, pay us X amount of money and jump through these standardized hoops and we will give you slip of paper that potential employers might like." That is a farce. That is dark comedy.

Yes, people have to want to work. And if you can't get a job in you major of philosophy or micro-biology or insert_major_here, ya gotta suck it up and take a job doing something else. Life is a b!tch.

Yes, PHDs don't mean squat. Know plenty that are really smart and can actually produce, know even more that I don't even want doing "You want fries with that." They are perfectly adapt in ivory towers...the real world..eh..not so much. Although I have worked with a person with a PHD in medival art history who has got wicked programming skills. So again, The sheepskin don't make the person, the person makes the person.
I'm politely waiting to see if the government steps in to regulate the cost of education. Then again maybe not, it's making a nice chunk of change off of federal student loans.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:09 PM   #9
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I'm politely waiting to see if the government steps in to regulate the cost of education. Then again maybe not, it's making a nice chunk of change off of federal student loans.
The states would never stand for it either. They make to much on the state uni systems.


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Old 08-08-2013, 11:27 PM   #10
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The states would never stand for it either. They make to much on the state uni systems.
None of the states make anything on their university systems. In fact, state legislatures subsidize them by the tens of billions every year. The only beneficiaries are people who work directly for the universities themselves. Administrator and full time professor salaries have skyrocketed in the past 20 years. And the number of administrators have increased by a staggering amount as well.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:45 AM   #11
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None of the states make anything on their university systems. In fact, state legislatures subsidize them by the tens of billions every year. The only beneficiaries are people who work directly for the universities themselves. Administrator and full time professor salaries have skyrocketed in the past 20 years. And the number of administrators have increased by a staggering amount as well.
Cost of quarterly tuition at a SoCal UC in 1983 $750, cost today $4,835.

$1 in 1983 = $2.35 in 2013.

Factor in the dollar adjustment and it is still nearly 3 times the relative cost then til now.

Somebody is cooking the books. It looks like the mafia has figured out a better extortion racket...it's called "higher education"
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:22 AM   #12
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Oh higher education is most definitely a racket these days!
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:56 AM   #13
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Cost of quarterly tuition at a SoCal UC in 1983 $750, cost today $4,835.

$1 in 1983 = $2.35 in 2013.

Factor in the dollar adjustment and it is still nearly 3 times the relative cost then til now.

Somebody is cooking the books. It looks like the mafia has figured out a better extortion racket...it's called "higher education"
I completely agree that tertiary education has turned into a huge racket. But that doesn't change the fact that the benefits of the racket are going to college administrators and full time professors, rather than the state government.

Most state governments have cut funding to state universities in the wake of the financial crisis and recession. They don't see a dime from their university systems, who just recycle their "profit" into an increased endowment or hire new administrators.

At the same time, let's not pretend that college was once a bastion of knowledge and truth way back when. It hasn't been that way since WWII, and back then it was only enjoyed by the elite of the country. College back then was still about drinking, hooking up, and carousing for a few years before you entered the workforce. The only difference being that back then college degrees were still relatively rare and many high school graduates could still make a career track salary without a college degree.

Flash forward to today and all the companies that provided high paying blue collar jobs went bankrupt and restructured those jobs into low paying ones and all the companies that had decent paying jobs for college graduates are now on top. And any new companies are founded by college graduates with practical degrees with great ideas. That inevitably attracts hangers on from the pool of college graduates with useless degrees who then act as gatekeepers to ensure that people who aren't "properly credentialed" get shut out of entry level career track jobs.

You said it yourself, rdsesq. For a job like software development, it's hard enough that very few people can do it at all, let alone properly. That's why theater majors can break into the field. Hell, two months ago we just hired an 80/h contract developer who never even went to college. The demand for developers has never been higher but very few people can do the job. The marketplace reality is that, if you can prove that you can do the job, regardless of credential, then you can get the job.

It doesn't take a college degree in the liberal arts to be an HR coordinator. Or a business analyst. Or a salesperson. Or a journalist. Anybody with a solid grasp on K12 education and a few weeks of on-the-job training could do any of those jobs. But the hiring managers for those jobs insist on college credentials because if you haven't gone to college, well how smart could you be?
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:19 AM   #14
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Wait is he a software guy or an engineer? I was going to ask how someone without an engineering degree could become an engineer....
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:45 AM   #15
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I directly worked for a Big 10 university post college, my job was to set up Exchange and transition some 1,000 employees to it.

Everyone there is union, within the contract data on the computers and mapped drives are considered private data to the individual employee. In turn no quotas on expensive netapp sans could be created because no one was allowed to verify that the data was work or personal related, it was well known that people kept movies, music, pictures and other personal sh!t on there. So, Netapps kept getting filled up and in a matter of a year 3 additional Netapps were bought at 100K a pop, same with the email.

I explained in a meeting this situation of buying of Netapps blindly without first keeping personal data to a minimum is the equivalent of me bringing into my office, a kayak, bike, bench press and all my personal stuff. Once my office is filled up, I want the University to knock my office wall out and build it bigger so I can fit more sh!t. Everyone kind of looked, shrugged and "we can't do anything"......I can go on and on with the blatant disregard for money this particular University wasted. I said fvck it and walked out one day and got a job where people actually worked.


Cliff - Universities waste your money.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:02 AM   #16
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Made it about a third of the way through the article. Nothing new is being argued. The only difference between this authors and others is his style in which he delivers his opinion. And by style, I mean his fragmented and unorganized presentation of an otherwise subjective topic.

Most of the time these threads turn into an engineer circlejerk.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:05 PM   #17
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Wait is he a software guy or an engineer? I was going to ask how someone without an engineering degree could become an engineer....
Easy, I had a minor background doing UNIX sys admin work for Stanford while I was working for them as a receptionist. I was hired at an entry level position for Sun as a roof rat (pulled thick net coax through buildings and did basic network connectivity.) They gave me the opportunity to show my skills in areas of systems tech and sys admin work.

I am not a pure coder nor am I a chip jockey. I don't write kernels or layout million transistor semis. I deal in the server world. Done lots of stuff. Board and system tech, sys admin, performance benchmark development and tuning, systems engineering, designed and built large scale data center facilities, doing information security data privacy related things at the moment.

Although I have worked with a couple of pure coders and one really awesome chip designer who never went to college.

Companies have the opportunity to do the same thing. I have always said apprenticeship programs or bringing in people at "the bottom rung" would be far more beneficial than college degrees. Most kids coming out of college are bleep useless for a couple of years when it comes to actually shipping products. The real world isn't nice neat formulas and code samples. It doesn't take a college degree in the hard sciences to be a good engineer either. But the hiring managers for those jobs insist on college credentials because if you haven't gone to college, well how smart could you be? It takes an ability to solve problems and to reason. Both the hard sciences and liberal arts teach those things. They teach them in different ways. One way is not inherently better than another.

Rapier7's argument applies on both sides, although it seems he only wants it to apply one side. But, the practical truth is, both sides are equally as guilty.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:51 PM   #18
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I read the title as "Hitlers on food stamps" for some reason. I imagined a bunch of hitlers waiting in line for bread and soup during the great depression. My mind is strange.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #19
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Wait is he a software guy or an engineer? I was going to ask how someone without an engineering degree could become an engineer....
Depends on the engineering.

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Made it about a third of the way through the article. Nothing new is being argued. The only difference between this authors and others is his style in which he delivers his opinion. And by style, I mean his fragmented and unorganized presentation of an otherwise subjective topic.

Most of the time these threads turn into an engineer circlejerk.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:38 PM   #20
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Kind of a timely opinion piece on the value of majoring in a liberal arts humanities degree.

Why major in humanities? Not just for a good job - for a good life.

Basically reiterates a rationale I've always heard that while a technical degree will teach you a specific skill set in a particular realm of knowledge, a good liberal arts education teaches you to think well in whatever vocational realm(s) you pursue ... and beyond, to being a good citizen outside of whatever realm you choose to make a living. A technical degree makes for a great employee, a humanities degree for a great human being.
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