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Old 08-10-2013, 09:06 AM   #41
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From that article. I can side with this guy.



Much of my criticism comes from students wanting to major in the humanities because the course load is generally lighter than a STEM degree. I've always praised those who were passionate about their education regardless of the degree. Diversity is needed in the world, but loading this nation full of debt and having parents splurge life savings on their children's degrees is absurd. Especially when kids are just going to college because they've been told to do so and want a paid 4 years vacation. Where is the reasoning in that?
In other words, we should not be sending large percentages of today's youth to receive an education that is ONLY relevant for going back into academia and educating tomorrow's youth on the equally useless knowledge.

Is there a place for classics? Art? Women's studies? Sure. But those are only worthwhile so long as we can afford to basically pay for that luxury with the profits from those producing.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:34 AM   #42
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In other words, we should not be sending large percentages of today's youth to receive an education that is ONLY relevant for going back into academia and educating tomorrow's youth on the equally useless knowledge.

Is there a place for classics? Art? Women's studies? Sure. But those are only worthwhile so long as we can afford to basically pay for that luxury with the profits from those producing.
Out of curiosity, what did you major in at GW?

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Old 08-10-2013, 09:40 AM   #43
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I think I recall from an earlier post in another thread of his that the ESQ after his screen name has nothing to do with being a lawyer or matters of law. Esquire, as it pertains to being a lawyer, is a more modern interpretation and use of the term.
Yes, but he holds himself out in his posts as a legal authority. You have regurgitated his stock response, which we are all familiar with. There are plenty of people here who still post "wait, he's not a lawyer?".

He's the master of lying, but not lying. Go internet!
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:44 AM   #44
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Lol stealing other peoples lines? Witless.

I find it hilarious how you never "say" things but try to slip credential lies by people "oh I was a liberal arts major and now I'm an engineer!". We all know that the purpose of that statement was to confer to the reader that you were an actual ME/EE/CE type engineer. A real engineer. This is no different than you putting ESQ after your handle then constantly talking about the law and case law like you're a lawyer (yes, we all know the original use for ESQ...that isn't why you used it). Talk about a poser!

smh at you, pathetic
Again, you know nothing of what you speak. If you don't think people who do benchmark development and tuning aren't engineers you are a simpleton. Which you appear to be. If cooling row upon row of 20kW servers in small confined space and getting DCIE of 1.2 or lower isn't engineering, than what is it, pray tell? Or what about the ME of air flow over boards or through entire servers, guess that ain't engineering either. I can actually do things, unlike you. You want to hold the pathetic and dreadfully wrong idea that one can only be an engineer if one has a degree in engineering. You are simply wrong. When you get to the real world, where you actually have to ship products, a degree don't mean jack. What matters is can you do what needs to be done. I can. I have moved from area to area over the last quarter of a century because I can. After a few years the area gets boring. (BTW, I suggest you ask mummie and daddy about the real world, perhaps they can try and explain it to you)

And for about the 20th time. I started using ESQ when working for a Harley-Davidson parts dept. As it means "not a member of the landed gentry". (perhaps mummie and daddy can help you learn to use a dictionary too) To add to it, when I started working for Standford, their Tops-20 operating system machines required a login to be at least 6 characters in length. If you look at a standard qwerty keyboard r, d, s, e, & q are all easily typeable with the left hand. Much easier to login in the morning when you can type with one hand and drink coffee or diet-coke with the other. Why lawyers absconded with the ESQ monicker, I don't know and I don't give a damn. Perhaps VaderDave knows, he is a real lawyer.

Only a village idiot fails to comprehend that in the real world you don't need a degree to know and do and invent things. Since you bow at the feet of the founding fathers. Ben Franklin didn't have a degree. Neither did Thomas Jefferson. For that matter, Da Vinci didn't either. You gonna tell me those geezers weren't engineers?

Some people talk, some people do. You are obviously the former, I am the latter. It is that simple. I kept it simple for such a simpleton.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #45
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Yes, but he holds himself out in his posts as a legal authority. You have regurgitated his stock response, which we are all familiar with. There are plenty of people here who still post "wait, he's not a lawyer?".
I am not responsible for the views of others. Obviously you don't believe in personal responsibility.

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He's the master of lying, but not lying. Go internet!
I am a master of lying, but not lying.........hey, maybe I should become a lawyer. Based on AofG's statement, I am imminently qualified. Again, his words not mine.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:56 AM   #46
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In other words, we should not be sending large percentages of today's youth to receive an education that is ONLY relevant for going back into academia and educating tomorrow's youth on the equally useless knowledge.

Is there a place for classics? Art? Women's studies? Sure. But those are only worthwhile so long as we can afford to basically pay for that luxury with the profits from those producing.
Classics & Art...really...they are only good in academia...seriously Chase. You ever hear of areas like Graphic Design, Marketing, User Interface Design not to mention all the people who mfg & sell art supplies. Ever hear of Michaels or Arron Brothers? Their stock isn't mana from heaven. It never occurs to you that folks who study classics have to have a deep understanding of how to catalog information. With so many databases, growing at such monumental rates. With information being scraped from all over the net, who do you think designs those databases. What they need to contain and how to organize them. Classics majors can excel in that area. They are uniquely trained for it.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #47
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Classics & Art...really...they are only good in academia...seriously Chase. You ever hear of areas like Graphic Design, Marketing, User Interface Design not to mention all the people who mfg & sell art supplies. Ever hear of Michaels or Arron Brothers? Their stock isn't mana from heaven. It never occurs to you that folks who study classics have to have a deep understanding of how to catalog information. With so many databases, growing at such monumental rates. With information being scraped from all over the net, who do you think designs those databases. What they need to contain and how to organize them. Classics majors can excel in that area. They are uniquely trained for it.
funny you mention Marketing. Chase has his degree in Marketing










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Old 08-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #48
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Classics & Art...really...they are only good in academia...seriously Chase. You ever hear of areas like Graphic Design, Marketing, User Interface Design not to mention all the people who mfg & sell art supplies. Ever hear of Michaels or Arron Brothers? Their stock isn't mana from heaven. It never occurs to you that folks who study classics have to have a deep understanding of how to catalog information. With so many databases, growing at such monumental rates. With information being scraped from all over the net, who do you think designs those databases. What they need to contain and how to organize them. Classics majors can excel in that area. They are uniquely trained for it.
Please tell me what can not be learned about classics and arts online...

Countless thousands of kids are signing themselves up to 100k worth of debt to pursue something that will never make them more desirable in their (likely) career field.


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Old 08-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #49
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Please tell me what can not be learned about classics and arts online...

Countless thousands of kids are signing themselves up to 100k worth of debt to pursue something that will never make them more desirable in their (likely) career field.


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Please tell me what cannot be learned about ME, CE, EE online...

I think the university/college system is a rip-off. But, it is true for STEM majors just as much, if not more, than LibArts majors.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #50
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Please tell me what cannot be learned about ME, CE, EE online...

I think the university/college system is a rip-off. But, it is true for STEM majors just as much, if not more, than LibArts majors.
Can we dispense with the bullshit arguments for a second?

It costs the universities a lot more money to train people to major in engineering and science degrees, because the coursework requires something beyond an old fart lecturing from a textbook.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...majors/277516/

I'm not saying you can't be an engineer if you don't go to college. But the value proposition for going to college to become an engineer is much better than attending college to major in gender studies or art history.

All the things you argue that "classical" studies gives you, the ability to think critically, argue convincingly, and write effectively, those aren't things that are exclusive to liberal arts graduates.

The example you gave about engineers thinking the McLaren F1 is the greatest car ever? You're reducing engineers to a stereotype in that they are unable to see past the numbers. No engineer is going to tell you that the McLaren F1 is one of the greatest daily drivers ever.

In any university and in every major, you will find people who want nothing more than to skate by and do as little as possible in order to get a degree. But the baseline requirement for getting a STEM degree is much higher than the baseline requirement for getting a liberal arts degree based on the way our currently society is structured.

If you've graduated high school, chances are you can read, do basic math, and know a little about history. That's more than enough to bullshit your way through your run-of-the-mill liberal arts program. It takes a great deal more to bullshit your way through your run-of-the-mill STEM program.
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:31 PM   #51
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Please tell me what cannot be learned about ME, CE, EE online...

I think the university/college system is a rip-off. But, it is true for STEM majors just as much, if not more, than LibArts majors.
We agree on education being commoditized and, for the most part, a time suck.. It's been glorified to horny men and women as "liberation".

In reality, it's a machine out for the almighty buck.

As for all majors being largely worthless, i would disagree strooooongly. It's not about the materials or professors but the classmates, connection, contacts, network, and team-oriented skills derived. Those prove invaluable within the work place.

Of all majors, those who studied liberal arts, English, history, art, etc are constantly the ones (in my network anyway) complaining about the economy, cutbacks in the schooling systems (most of them go here), or public sector jobs...

The author's point is largely that if you're not producing, you're nothing but a leach.. And I largely agree.. The frustration is around the condescending hipsters who mock the very capitalistic system that affords them their food stamps as they walk around with their noses in the air scoffing at the "rich suckers to corporate america".. Who make it possible for them to even feed themselves.


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Old 08-10-2013, 03:39 PM   #52
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We agree on education being commoditized and, for the most part, a time suck.. It's been glorified to horny men and women as "liberation".

In reality, it's a machine out for the almighty buck.

As for all majors being largely worthless, i would disagree strooooongly. It's not about the materials or professors but the classmates, connection, contacts, network, and team-oriented skills derived. Those prove invaluable within the work place.
I agree on the people part, but, that is true regardless of major.

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Of all majors, those who studied liberal arts, English, history, art, etc are constantly the ones (in my network anyway) complaining about the economy, cutbacks in the schooling systems (most of them go here), or public sector jobs...
In my network, it's the STEM majors. But, I work in Silicon Valley. And that is sort of the big picture here. I work in an area flooded with STEM degrees. Certainly one of the largest, if not the largest concentrations of CS & EE majors on the planet. I find it amusing that so many people who don't actually work in the field are so hot and bothered for STEM majors. How many of them don't know just what poor communication and reasoning skills so many of them have. It is appalling.

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The author's point is largely that if you're not producing, you're nothing but a leach.. And I largely agree.. The frustration is around the condescending hipsters who mock the very capitalistic system that affords them their food stamps as they walk around with their noses in the air scoffing at the "rich suckers to corporate america".. Who make it possible for them to even feed themselves.
Around here there are "hipsters" and "wanna-be hippies" aplenty with STEM degrees doing what they author is b!tching about the LibArts degrees doing. A leach is a leach regardless of whether they hold a degree in Bio or Art History.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:22 PM   #53
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Can we dispense with the bullshit arguments for a second?

It costs the universities a lot more money to train people to major in engineering and science degrees, because the coursework requires something beyond an old fart lecturing from a textbook.
I guess you don't know what the coursework of a script analysis class looks like. Compiler theory is a lighter class. If you were talking about these folks still coding vastly in assembly or lisp or maybe even C, I might concur. But, they aren't. They are doing Java and other language types that are far easier because of the abstractions. (And they are still not learning how to develop object-oriented code...AND IT'S F-ING JAVA!!!!) So please...it can we dispense with the bullshit arguments that classwork for STEMs is "oh so much more difficult and time consuming". It is a cr@p argument.
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Seriously...you are going to use Jordan Weissmann as a source, he is a journalist....and probably a LibArts major. Oh wow!! An advanced level course costs more to teach than a entry level course. Stop the presses!!! We have a game changing, never before revealed piece of news!!! Funny that he doesn't compare and entry level comp-sci course with an entry level psych course.

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I'm not saying you can't be an engineer if you don't go to college. But the value proposition for going to college to become an engineer is much better than attending college to major in gender studies or art history.
That all depends on what you value. If you opt to change from a Bio major (with a 3.8 gpa, so it's not like you couldn't hack it, it was easy.) And go become an Art major because that is what you really love and get your BachSci in Art. You eventually form your own company rep'ing for high-end art supply mfgs and make a pretty good living. Which was the better value proposition. Being stuck in something you hate and maybe making a few bucks more and being f**k miserable. OR doing something you love and having the depth of knowledge and history about that area, so you can do something in the field you love. To some that extra few bucks in their pocket is worth it. To others it is not. But, one choice is not better than the other. They are just different.

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All the things you argue that "classical" studies gives you, the ability to think critically, argue convincingly, and write effectively, those aren't things that are exclusive to liberal arts graduates.
No they aren't. But, the STEMs graduates are getting worse and worse at them as the years have gone on. That is what scares me. And the LibArts majors are getting worse and worse at understanding the physical world. This is equally as scary. The issue is that both need to come together. Both are valuable. There used to be this thing called breadth requirements. You had to take a decent number of courses outside your area. LibArts had to take Hard Science and Hard Science had to take LibArts.

I knew two chem majors who swore O-Chem was easier than acting class. Why? Because in O-Chem, you didn't have to expose your psyche. You didn't have to subject yourself to public criticism. If you had partied to much the night before, you couldn't just hide in the back of the class that day. You had to be on. (They passed with C's. It wasn't "the easy A" they thought it would be.) For them it was a stretch...and good for them. They actually learned something. That is what education should do.


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The example you gave about engineers thinking the McLaren F1 is the greatest car ever? You're reducing engineers to a stereotype in that they are unable to see past the numbers. No engineer is going to tell you that the McLaren F1 is one of the greatest daily drivers ever.

In any university and in every major, you will find people who want nothing more than to skate by and do as little as possible in order to get a degree. But the baseline requirement for getting a STEM degree is much higher than the baseline requirement for getting a liberal arts degree based on the way our currently society is structured.
And how many here, including the OP article's author, aren't reducing LibArts majors down to stereotypes. Not so comfortable when the shoe is on the other foot, is it. Is it hyperbole, sure. But, so are many of the hipster examples.

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If you've graduated high school, chances are you can read, do basic math, and know a little about history. That's more than enough to bullshit your way through your run-of-the-mill liberal arts program. It takes a great deal more to bullshit your way through your run-of-the-mill STEM program.
That is a stereotype as well.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:27 PM   #54
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Can we dispense with the bullshit arguments for a second?

It costs the universities a lot more money to train people to major in engineering and science degrees, because the coursework requires something beyond an old fart lecturing from a textbook.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...majors/277516/

I'm not saying you can't be an engineer if you don't go to college. But the value proposition for going to college to become an engineer is much better than attending college to major in gender studies or art history.

All the things you argue that "classical" studies gives you, the ability to think critically, argue convincingly, and write effectively, those aren't things that are exclusive to liberal arts graduates.

The example you gave about engineers thinking the McLaren F1 is the greatest car ever? You're reducing engineers to a stereotype in that they are unable to see past the numbers. No engineer is going to tell you that the McLaren F1 is one of the greatest daily drivers ever.

In any university and in every major, you will find people who want nothing more than to skate by and do as little as possible in order to get a degree. But the baseline requirement for getting a STEM degree is much higher than the baseline requirement for getting a liberal arts degree based on the way our currently society is structured.

If you've graduated high school, chances are you can read, do basic math, and know a little about history. That's more than enough to bullshit your way through your run-of-the-mill liberal arts program. It takes a great deal more to bullshit your way through your run-of-the-mill STEM program.
Nicely put. Resolidifies my earlier statement.
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:07 PM   #55
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I guess you don't know what the coursework of a script analysis class looks like. Compiler theory is a lighter class. If you were talking about these folks still coding vastly in assembly or lisp or maybe even C, I might concur. But, they aren't. They are doing Java and other language types that are far easier because of the abstractions. (And they are still not learning how to develop object-oriented code...AND IT'S F-ING JAVA!!!!) So please...it can we dispense with the bullshit arguments that classwork for STEMs is "oh so much more difficult and time consuming". It is a cr@p argument.

Seriously...you are going to use Jordan Weissmann as a source, he is a journalist....and probably a LibArts major. Oh wow!! An advanced level course costs more to teach than a entry level course. Stop the presses!!! We have a game changing, never before revealed piece of news!!! Funny that he doesn't compare and entry level comp-sci course with an entry level psych course.
http://www.sheeo.org/sites/default/f...eport_2010.pdf

Fine, I'll use the actual study instead. Across the board, it takes roughly 2.4 more money to fund engineering classes than it does to fund social science and history courses. That's the most stark example, but the study does show that engineering is the most expensive discipline for the university to provide instruction for. After that it's classes related to health and clinical sciences.

If you look at it in terms of what it costs the university to provide, engineering and science degrees represent a better value to the student than things like gender studies, psychology, philosophy, etc. That's inarguable.

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That all depends on what you value. If you opt to change from a Bio major (with a 3.8 gpa, so it's not like you couldn't hack it, it was easy.) And go become an Art major because that is what you really love and get your BachSci in Art. You eventually form your own company rep'ing for high-end art supply mfgs and make a pretty good living. Which was the better value proposition. Being stuck in something you hate and maybe making a few bucks more and being f**k miserable. OR doing something you love and having the depth of knowledge and history about that area, so you can do something in the field you love. To some that extra few bucks in their pocket is worth it. To others it is not. But, one choice is not better than the other. They are just different.
Again, you're just citing made up anecdotes of individuals to make your point. When it comes to debating the value of college degrees, we have to speak in terms of statistics and aggregate value. Right now, if we're going by averages, going to private school for a liberal arts education is the worst financial decision a senior in high school can make.

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No they aren't. But, the STEMs graduates are getting worse and worse at them as the years have gone on. That is what scares me. And the LibArts majors are getting worse and worse at understanding the physical world. This is equally as scary. The issue is that both need to come together. Both are valuable. There used to be this thing called breadth requirements. You had to take a decent number of courses outside your area. LibArts had to take Hard Science and Hard Science had to take LibArts.

I knew two chem majors who swore O-Chem was easier than acting class. Why? Because in O-Chem, you didn't have to expose your psyche. You didn't have to subject yourself to public criticism. If you had partied to much the night before, you couldn't just hide in the back of the class that day. You had to be on. (They passed with C's. It wasn't "the easy A" they thought it would be.) For them it was a stretch...and good for them. They actually learned something. That is what education should do.
I don't think STEM graduates are as inept as you're suggesting. And I don't think that the liberal arts majors are as technically impaired either. The vast majority of workplaces don't require math above simple arithmetic and the ability to string 3-5 sentences together.

More and more, hiring managers are bemoaning the lack of "culture fit". Is the person polite? Do they seem like functional, well adjusted people instead of raging narcissists with self-diagnosed ADHD? Do they understand that the needs of the organization are more important than their personal desires?

Obviously with technical positions, core competency is a sine qua non before culture fit. You can't hire a software developer who doesn't know how to code and expect them to be able to pick it up on the job within a couple weeks. So a lot of the times culture fit gets relaxed or thrown out the window entirely as long as the person is competent. A person who has technical competency and is a good culture fit is one of the most valuable employees within a typical business workplace.

When it comes to non-technical workers, it just comes down to being well adjusted. And if they aren't, they are useless from the perspective of the working world. "So let me get this straight, you're an asshole AND you're incompetent? Why the **** would I pay you for your time?"

Quote:
And how many here, including the OP article's author, aren't reducing LibArts majors down to stereotypes. Not so comfortable when the shoe is on the other foot, is it. Is it hyperbole, sure. But, so are many of the hipster examples.
Well, there's a lot more unemployed psychology graduates than petroleum engineering graduates. That's what we're getting at here. Because right now, public policy is failing to turn a significant number of newly minted psychology graduates into productive members of the economy.

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That is a stereotype as well.
Nah, it's just a statistic. STEM majors always bleed headcount from semester to semester.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:22 PM   #56
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rdsesq relax. Did you ever take Ochem?
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:51 PM   #57
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http://www.sheeo.org/sites/default/f...eport_2010.pdf

Fine, I'll use the actual study instead. Across the board, it takes roughly 2.4 more money to fund engineering classes than it does to fund social science and history courses. That's the most stark example, but the study does show that engineering is the most expensive discipline for the university to provide instruction for. After that it's classes related to health and clinical sciences.
I suggest you look at your data.
In the SUNY study, the cost of Tech & Math (the T&M in STEM) were both cheaper than Fine/Applied Arts. And Fine/Applied Arts was more expensive than Bio in lower division undergrad and a whopping $2 cheaper than Bio in upper division. ($363 Bio / $ 361 Fine/Applied Arts)

Not to mention that in the Florida, Ohio, Illinois study the cost per Student Credit Hour was the highest, in lower division, for Visual and Performing Arts $254. English&Lit came in second $244, Phys Sci in third $235, Eng in fourth at $231.

Phys Sci tops the list in upper division at $474, Eng at $437, and Visual and Performing Arts at $390.

If we go by how much money it takes to fund classes, Visual and Performing Arts is more cost than Bio and Bio Med Sci or Health Professions.

And I am curious to know how much of the cost of Eng is in computer systems. Including space, power, & cooling. Since the study stops at 2007, the advent of cheaper multi-core processor, cheaper memory, much cheaper storage costs & easy access to virtual machines to use resources much more efficiently, how much, if any those eng costs have gone down.


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If you look at it in terms of what it costs the university to provide, engineering and science degrees represent a better value to the student than things like gender studies, psychology, philosophy, etc. That's inarguable.
And Visual and Performing arts are a better value than STEM areas like Bio fields or Math. That's inarguable as well.

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Again, you're just citing made up anecdotes of individuals to make your point. When it comes to debating the value of college degrees, we have to speak in terms of statistics and aggregate value. Right now, if we're going by averages, going to private school for a liberal arts education is the worst financial decision a senior in high school can make.
It is hardly made up. It is the true story of a member of my own family. Chucked Bio at UCI, became an Art major and wouldn't change that for anything.

Going to a private that is not in the very upper "cache" schools in any area is the worst decision. If you are going after an EE degree and you aren't going to MIT or Cal-Tech, go to one of your own state's schools. Your gonna do CS. If its MIT, UIUC, CMU, & UCB (especially if you are out of state) it is not worth it either. Whether you get you BS in CompSci from UCI, ASU, Texas, Mich St...it doesn't matter. You checked the "hey I got my degree in blah box" Beyond "cache" schools, it doesn't matter much, regardless of your major.


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I don't think STEM graduates are as inept as you're suggesting. And I don't think that the liberal arts majors are as technically impaired either. The vast majority of workplaces don't require math above simple arithmetic and the ability to string 3-5 sentences together.

More and more, hiring managers are bemoaning the lack of "culture fit". Is the person polite? Do they seem like functional, well adjusted people instead of raging narcissists with self-diagnosed ADHD? Do they understand that the needs of the organization are more important than their personal desires?
You don't think so...well, we can't go off of opinions. They don't matter, we have to speak in terms of statistics and aggregate value, right.
I work with STEM grads on a daily basis. I know what I and other colleagues observe. (It is a topic of beer discussion, along with why anybody thinks binary trees are a good idea, security architectures, and who is gonna win the LL World Series.) Some are THAT bad. Most are somewhere in the middle. A few can do both very effectively, and they will move fast up the ladder.

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Originally Posted by rapier7 View Post
Obviously with technical positions, core competency is a sine qua non before culture fit. You can't hire a software developer who doesn't know how to code and expect them to be able to pick it up on the job within a couple weeks. So a lot of the times culture fit gets relaxed or thrown out the window entirely as long as the person is competent. A person who has technical competency and is a good culture fit is one of the most valuable employees within a typical business workplace.

When it comes to non-technical workers, it just comes down to being well adjusted. And if they aren't, they are useless from the perspective of the working world. "So let me get this straight, you're an asshole AND you're incompetent? Why the **** would I pay you for your time?"
"Aye, there's the rub". Having the degree doesn't mean you actually have that core competency. It doesn't. It is a fact. It is, allegedly, the best marker that hopefully they might...kinda...sorta...maybe...on a good day with a tail wind. It is the "Are you like me" box. The "stupid pet tricks" problems during the interview are to find out if you have core competency.

As for the non-technical workers...really...than they are just interchangeable parts. One person is just as good for a doc writer post as another, as long as they are well adjusted. One program mgr is the same as another. No special skills required...right? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to find good marketing people?
In all seriousness, what you are saying is absurd.

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Well, there's a lot more unemployed psychology graduates than petroleum engineering graduates. That's what we're getting at here. Because right now, public policy is failing to turn a significant number of newly minted psychology graduates into productive members of the economy.
So? There is more to life than the economy. Lots of folks with all types of degrees need to get off their a$$es and find a job and if it isn't in your particular area...well tough $h!t. But, plenty of those STEM grads who learned Cobal (and never adapted to anything else, as you are implying the LibArts majors are doing) are getting their food stamps too.

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Nah, it's just a statistic. STEM majors always bleed headcount from semester to semester.
Maybe it isn't because it's to hard...maybe it's because the folks who were forced into STEM by their "tiger moms" have finally had enough and want something more out of life than JUST a paycheck.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #58
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rdsesq relax. Did you ever take Ochem?
Thankfully, no.
But, I was in college in the 80's. Ochem was basically "here is how to process and refine dope" OK, that wasn't the official syllabus, just the practical one. Generally cocaine...it has a lot of carbon atoms.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:18 PM   #59
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Thankfully, no.
But, I was in college in the 80's. Ochem was basically "here is how to process and refine dope" OK, that wasn't the official syllabus, just the practical one. Generally cocaine...it has a lot of carbon atoms.
You missed out. By far my favorite chem class.
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:22 AM   #60
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You missed out. By far my favorite chem class.
I always knew there was something mentally unbalanced about you.
(Just teasing ya)

But, seriously. I have talked to more than a few people over the years who took o-chem. It seems to be binary. Folks like yourself who really dug it and that it was great and those that figured it was the 10th circle of hell and Dante omitted it because it was to horrific.
(Of course, so many of the folks who took o-chem were STEM majors so you had to explain and give them the cliff notes of The Divine Comedy first. Sure they had heard of circles of hell, but, they had no idea where it came from. Most just figured it was a D&D level they hadn't unlocked yet. .....And before rapier7 gets his knicks in a twist...that was a joke. Well, except for the STEM majors who have graduated in the last 7 years that think that Dante's Inferno started as a video game. I actually had a BS in CS who had been out about 4-5 years say that to me at a conf last year when I mentioned circles of hell. Now that was depressing enough to require two gin & tonics. Truth is stranger than fiction.
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