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Old 08-12-2013, 10:57 PM   #1
Act of God
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Incrementalism: Harry Reid says Obamacare will lead to single payer

http://news.yahoo.com/-harry-reid-sa...174601028.html
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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the implementation of Obamacare is a step toward an eventual single-payer national health care system.

The Las Vegas Sun reports that Reid made the statement during a Friday appearance on the PBS program “Nevada Week in Review.” Reid said that Congress could eventually reform the Affordable Care Act into one providing universal health care without relying on the private health insurance industry.

“What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said.

When show panelist Steve Sebelius asked if that meant eventually doing away with insurance-based coverage, Reid replied, “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”

During the same interview, Reid noted that Senate Democrats originally pushed for a single-payer plan back in 2009 but were met with opposition by former Sen. Joe Lieberman. In order to curb Lieberman’s opposition, Reid took the public option off the table as well as making other concessions.

“We had a real good run at the public option … don’t think we didn’t have a tremendous number of people who wanted a single-payer system,” Reid said. “We had to get a majority of votes. In fact, we had to get a little extra in the Senate, we have to get 60.”

As the Weekly Standard notes, conservative critics of Obamacare such as Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn have previously said they believe the Affordable Care Act was specifically designed to pave the way for an eventual single-payer system. However, Coburn’s argument has been that the health care legislation was intentionally designed to fail, creating the need for a more comprehensive law.

“By making private insurance unaffordable for everyone, it will become available to no one,” Coburn wrote in 2012. “All that will be left is government-centered, government-run, single-payer health care."

The forthcoming health exchanges included under Obamacare have made news in recent days, with members of Congress being given a waiver of some of the program’s provisions and some states like Oregon saying their health care exchange selection program will not be fully in place by the government’s Oct. 1 deadline.
and the idiots never saw it coming
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:46 PM   #2
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Inshallah.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:15 AM   #3
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Incrementalism: Harry Reid says Obamacare will lead to single payer

It sounds great in theory.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:30 AM   #4
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It sounds great in theory.
How so? How does it fail in practice?
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:17 AM   #5
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How so? How does it fail in practice?
How did i know you'd be the first to ask?!

It has not necessarily failed in practice yet because it is not fully instituted but other government subsidies fail and common sense would tell you that universal health care would fail as well.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:49 AM   #6
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Now you are gonna believe what Harry Reid says.

Find a grain of and take it.


Just because Harry Reid spouts off something, does not magically poof it into existence. Harry Reid has claimed a lot of cr@p that has never happened.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:15 AM   #7
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Incrementalism: Harry Reid says Obamacare will lead to single payer

How many here can legitimately claim that they have read and fully understand Obama care? Who here has read the entire bill?

I know I haven't. That said, I wonder how many politicians have as well - both for and against.

Curious, I wonder the same for the American people or do they just go off what the media feeds them or toe their party line.

Food for thought.


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Old 08-13-2013, 06:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
Now you are gonna believe what Harry Reid says.

Find a grain of and take it.


Just because Harry Reid spouts off something, does not magically poof it into existence. Harry Reid has claimed a lot of cr@p that has never happened.
to be honest, I think he actually had Mitt Romney's tax records...straight from the IRS.

He also isn't the first democrat to say this single payer stuff:


0:43



http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/12/fl...em-eventually/

Hence, incrementalism
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
How many here can legitimately claim that they have read and fully understand Obama care? Who here has read the entire bill?

I know I haven't. That said, I wonder how many politicians have as well - both for and against.

Curious, I wonder the same for the American people or do they just go off what the media feeds them or toe their party line.

Food for thought.
Have you read your car's owner's manual cover to cover? I haven't. Yet, I still have the general idea of how it functions. Others on the internet who have read portions I have not have alerted me to things that I might want to know.

Have many people read the whole thing. Probably not. Have enough people read enough pages to have found every bit of newsworthy tidbits. Yeah, probably.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:40 AM   #10
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Good.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:43 AM   #11
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Re: Incrementalism: Harry Reid says Obamacare will lead to single payer

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Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
Have you read your car's owner's manual cover to cover?
Great comparison. Something that covers a vehicle that affects only the person that voluntarily bought it vs. something that affects 311 (soon to be 330+ after amnesty) million people because they exist. :rollseyes:

What's the waiver count up to now?


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Old 08-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #12
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Incrementalism: Harry Reid says Obamacare will lead to single payer

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Have you read your car's owner's manual cover to cover? I haven't. Yet, I still have the general idea of how it functions. Others on the internet who have read portions I have not have alerted me to things that I might want to know.

Have many people read the whole thing. Probably not. Have enough people read enough pages to have found every bit of newsworthy tidbits. Yeah, probably.
Yes. Actually I have.


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Old 08-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #13
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With any luck at all, yes.

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It has not necessarily failed in practice yet because it is not fully instituted but other government subsidies fail and common sense would tell you that universal health care would fail as well.
But objective statistics and real world empirical results seem to indicate otherwise:

http://www.who.int/research/en/

But hey, why let reason, facts and figures muddy up a good political meme.

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Old 08-13-2013, 09:40 AM   #14
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Yes. Actually I have.
Was it revelationary?
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsesq View Post
Now you are gonna believe what Harry Reid says.

Find a grain of and take it.


Just because Harry Reid spouts off something, does not magically poof it into existence. Harry Reid has claimed a lot of cr@p that has never happened.
GTFO. This has been the objective since day one.



Obama, Reid, Hillary, and many others have all praised single-payer systems for years.

A little honesty and acknowledgement of the intent would go a long way for some of the regulars in here. Instead, they will claim this isn't accurate, Reid was mistaken, Obama has never pushed for single-payer (even though he has been quoted in favor of it multiple times), etc... don't forget that the obamacare debacle began as a push towards a single-payer system... only after that was obviously opposed did they go towards the affordable healthcare act. And, FWIW, those like Hannity, Rush, Levin, etc have ALL claimed this was universal healthcare in disguise... but their critics have labeled them in the past (and continue to this day) as crazies. What do you call those who hate upon those making accurate predictions?
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:51 AM   #16
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What do you call those who hate upon those making accurate predictions?
Considering you're the one asking, I assume the answer is "racists"?
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:53 AM   #17
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How so? How does it fail in practice?
Social security...they said the same thing.

Like I mentioned in another thread. Theoretically these programs sound great, but often times don't receive the required planning and process steps to be effectively implemented. Have you ever managed projects? One of the first things you try to logically do is work finish to start and try to recognize issues and any unknowns that may become hurdles.
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
Have you read your car's owner's manual cover to cover? I haven't. Yet, I still have the general idea of how it functions. Others on the internet who have read portions I have not have alerted me to things that I might want to know.

Have many people read the whole thing. Probably not. Have enough people read enough pages to have found every bit of newsworthy tidbits. Yeah, probably.
Not the best analogy.
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Originally Posted by SonicBoom
Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Considering you're the one asking, I assume the answer is "racists"?
It just astounds me. The Obama cheerleaders will jump up and down and support Obamacare. They will back Reid, Hillary, and their supreme chancellor.. ensuring they say virtually nothing negative about them. And then, when a comment like this is made, they will pretend that Reid must have been mistaken (even though his comments are about as blunt as they come). When conservatives yell back proclaiming "this is precisely why we opposed this legislation", the libs will balk and pretend they somehow never could have seen this coming. They will claim "it's not a big deal" and play other ignorance cards. All the while, they will continue to vote for those same individuals who promised Obamacare and will (ultimately) deliver a single payer system.

It's just flat out ignorance.

EITHER support single payer systems and be honest about it OR blast Reid for pushing for something you do NOT support. Don't dilly daddle and fumble around claiming to support one and not the other but only if it.. but not if it... it's just asinine.

So what is it "typical libs"? Do you support Reid and a single payer system? Do you disagree with him? If the former, do you feel as if the American people were deceived when they were promised "reform" but not an end to the health-insurance based system ("if you like your plan, keep your plan".. . who said that again?)

Oh yeah, and blast "idiots like Rush" for proclaiming early on that this was a trojan horse for single payer healthcare.

And on the topic of healthcare :

Quote:
Yet Another White House Obamacare Delay: Out-Of-Pocket Caps Waived Until 2015
Quote:
First, there was the delay of Obamacare's Medicare cuts until after the election. Then there was the delay of the law's employer mandate. Then there was the announcement, buried in the Federal Register, that the administration would delay enforcement of a number of key eligibility requirements for the law's health insurance subsidies, relying on the "honor system" instead. Now comes word that another costly provision of the health law-its caps on out-of-pocket insurance costs-will be delayed for one more year.
In case you don't know what that means... less money being taken in... aka more money going towards the debt which will result from this asinine policy.
Link : http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ed-until-2015/
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:10 AM   #20
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Was it revelationary?
In some aspects, yes. Yes, there was stuff that could be found through "common knowledge" on the internet and car forum community, but there was other things that I otherwise would not have known. Then there were some things that clarified the common knowledge on the internet.

I guess my point is, with the media, we typically hear the sound bytes and the more controversial things - some times taken out of context.
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