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Old 08-13-2013, 03:16 PM   #41
'busa
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There are plenty of things that are unsustainable that you support, like social security. Now you're concerned with unsustainable? ha!
What would you like to do about social security?

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A large portion of the population is not suffering, stop with the emotional appeals.
49.9 million -- The number of uninsured Americans in 2010. That's 16.3% of the total population.

7.3 million -- The number of children in the United States without health insurance, 9.8% of all children in the country.


19.1% - Percentage of people living in the South who are uninsured, the highest percentage of any region.
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What would 'busa have done?
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I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
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What are we to do?

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Old 08-13-2013, 03:37 PM   #42
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What would you like to do about social security?


49.9 million -- The number of uninsured Americans in 2010. That's 16.3% of the total population.

7.3 million -- The number of children in the United States without health insurance, 9.8% of all children in the country.


19.1% - Percentage of people living in the South who are uninsured, the highest percentage of any region.
Let me know when you find the percentage that are denied healthcare because they are not insured.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:45 PM   #43
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Let me know when you find the percentage that are denied healthcare because they are not insured.
I'd be curious how many are denied based on a pre-existing condition, if any. Forget how the insurance companies view that, and I know they differ.

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Old 08-13-2013, 03:53 PM   #44
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Let me know when you find the percentage that are denied healthcare because they are not insured.
In an emergency room?

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I'd be curious how many are denied based on a pre-existing condition, if any.
Why "if any"?
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I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
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What are we to do?
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:54 PM   #45
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Why "if any"?
I don't know what I don't know
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:04 PM   #46
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What would you like to do about social security?


49.9 million -- The number of uninsured Americans in 2010. That's 16.3% of the total population.

7.3 million -- The number of children in the United States without health insurance, 9.8% of all children in the country.


19.1% - Percentage of people living in the South who are uninsured, the highest percentage of any region.
How many of those people CHOOSE not to have health insurance? How many of those people can afford health insurance but squander their money on other things first?

9.8% of children being uninsured isn't an epidemic. SCHIP could be expanded to cover them, I'm not sure why they wouldn't be covered already though.

So, your solution is to screw over the 80%+ that are doing it right to take care of the less than 20% that are doing it wrong? Classic
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:09 PM   #47
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It's unsustainable. Costs are spiraling out of control and meanwhile a large segment of the population is suffering.

Key point.


Following your logic, the answer to that question should have been 0%.
If the medical industry would standardize much of its practices and products, there probably wouldn't be a cost spiral.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:13 PM   #48
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How did i know you'd be the first to ask?!

It has not necessarily failed in practice yet because it is not fully instituted but other government subsidies fail and common sense would tell you that universal health care would fail as well.
Because I expect when someone makes a claim to back it up. Something you consistently fail to do.

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Social security...they said the same thing.

Like I mentioned in another thread. Theoretically these programs sound great, but often times don't receive the required planning and process steps to be effectively implemented. Have you ever managed projects? One of the first things you try to logically do is work finish to start and try to recognize issues and any unknowns that may become hurdles.
Oh please tell me more.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:41 PM   #49
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If the medical industry would standardize much of its practices and products, there probably wouldn't be a cost spiral.
I wouldn't say there wouldn't be, but maybe not as bad. But how do you make them standardize?
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:45 PM   #50
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If they really wanted to control the cost of going to a doctor they'd order the AMA to allow more people into medical school. It completely de-valued the legal profession, it would do the same for medicine. More doctors = more competition = lower salary = lower costs.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:58 PM   #51
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If they really wanted to control the cost of going to a doctor they'd order the AMA to allow more people into medical school. It completely de-valued the legal profession, it would do the same for medicine. More doctors = more competition = lower salary = lower costs.
Yeah, but anyone can become a lawyer now. You don't want some doofus for your doc.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:49 PM   #52
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Incrementalism: Harry Reid says Obamacare will lead to single payer

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If the medical industry would standardize much of its practices and products, there probably wouldn't be a cost spiral.
Well shucks. Problem solved.

Tell us, how do you propose to do that when patients can be unique, sometimes have to have tailored care dependent on conditions or multiple conditions? That and all the permutations of possibilities of conditions and ailments, disease, etc and how each person can be unique and react differently - especially to treatment and medications.

you're thinking like an engineer where you're trying to form an assembly line process and make things efficient. Not really going to work.

I'll agree that there may be some benefit to standardization, such as for well known and documented conditions, but things outside of that, no.

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Old 08-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #53
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Well shucks. Problem solved.

Tell us, how do you propose to do that when patients can be unique, sometimes have to have tailored care dependent on conditions or multiple conditions? That and all the permutations of possibilities of conditions and ailments, disease, etc and how each person can be unique and react differently - especially to treatment and medications.

you're thinking like an engineer where you're trying to form an assembly line process and make things efficient. Not really going to work.

I'll agree that there may be some benefit to standardization, such as for well known and documented conditions, but things outside of that, no.

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Lol @ thinking like an engineer.

Why couldn't there be a standard charge? Perhaps a set rate per hour or some unit of measure for a procedure? Patients would know up front a flat rate, and depending on their complication(s), could estimate what something might cost them.

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Appendix removal is a common, straightforward operation, so you might expect charges to be similar no matter where the surgery takes place. Yet a California study found huge disparities in patients' bills - $1,500 to $180,000, with an average of $33,000. "There's no method to the madness," said lead author Dr. Renee Hsia, an emergency room physician and researcher at the University of California, San Francisco.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1066207
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.

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Old 08-13-2013, 07:17 PM   #54
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In an emergency room?
correct if I'm wrong, but in an emergency room aren't they obligated to render aid to at least stabilize you?
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:20 PM   #55
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Lol @ thinking like an engineer.

Why couldn't there be a standard charge? Perhaps a set rate per hour or some unit of measure for a procedure? Patients would know up front a flat rate, and depending on their complication(s), could estimate what something might cost them.
Estimate what something might cost eh? And what if they can't? What if they're someone like me that spent 10 hours undergoing spinal surgery that involved a crushed lowered spine, un-pinching my spinal chord, and installing hardware and performing a fusion?

You want to know how much that surgery cost? Along with the time spent recovering in the hospital? Over $200k. Yeah, I'd be wiped out.

You can't "standardize" that. Doctor's, even after the X-ray, CT Scan, and MRI, didn't know the full extent of damage until they cut me open.

Get out here man...

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Old 08-13-2013, 07:24 PM   #56
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Oh please tell me more.


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Irritable Male Syndrome

MODERATOR:
Are there hormonal factors in IMS? We so easily throw around the idea that hormones affect women's moods, but for men it never seems to come up.

DIAMOND:
Again, there is the assumption that women are hormonal but men are moved more by logic. But the truth is men are as hormonally driven as women. In fact, men have a number of hormonal cycles:

1) Men's testosterone, for instance, varies and goes up and down four or five times an hour.
2) There are daily cycles with testosterone being higher in the morning and lower at night.
3) Men have a monthly hormonal cycle that is unique to each man, but men can actually track their moods and recognize they are related to hormonal changes through the month.
4) We know that there are seasonal cycles with testosterone higher in November and lower in April.
5) We know about hormonal cycles with males during adolescence, but also the years between 40 and 55 have what we call male menopause or andropause.
6) Finally, we know there are hormonal changes in men going through IMS, related to stress in a man's life.


"What we've found is that one of the primary symptoms is denial. That is, men think the problem is anywhere other than in themselves."


MEMBER QUESTION:
What causes hormones to go out of whack in a man?

DIAMOND:
There are a lot of things that can make hormones go out of whack. Let's start with something we all do, and that is eating food. If we gain weight, we run the potential of increasing IMS.

Here is how it works: In the body, a certain amount of testosterone gets converted to estrogen. Males and females have estrogen and testosterone in our bodies. When we put on weight, our fat cells are more active in converting testosterone into estrogen. The more estrogen we have and the less testosterone we have, the more irritable we become and the less sense of our own manly strength that we have. That's one way they get out of whack.

A second way is that we know when we are under a great deal of stress our testosterone levels drop. The third way they get out of whack is when we use various medications that can have in impact on hormonal levels. Many people are using multiple medications, not always with the knowledge of their doctors. And when I say medication, I include herbal remedies that many people think that because they're natural, they're safe, or that they're not real medications.

What I tell people is that all of these things are important to be explored by your health care provider to be sure you're not causing reactions between the various things you may be taking that can make your condition worse rather than better.

MEMBER QUESTION:
What are the signs of irritable male syndrome? My husband is depressed and stressed. Sometimes I have no idea what sets him off. How is IMS different from just regular depression?

DIAMOND:
We've set up a specific web site for you, at www.theirritablemale.com. On that site, you can take a quiz that will score your answers and give you an idea of whether you are suffering from IMS or the man that you may be concerned about is suffering. The quiz will also tell you which of nine types of IMS a man may have.

What we've found is that one of the primary symptoms is denial. That is, men think the problem is anywhere other than in themselves. They think it's their wives, their boss, people on the highway, the people in the White House, anybody but what's going on with themselves. So one of the primary things we help couples do is help men break through the denial.

What we know is that depression obviously can be present in people, male or female, who are not experiencing IMS. But we do think depression is a very significant aspect of IMS, and it is often unrecognized in males, because we tend to see irritability and anger and aggression as something that is acted-out behavior or negative behavior. We rarely see how sad and unhappy the men are.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=53725
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:35 PM   #57
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Estimate what something might cost eh? And what if they can't? What if they're someone like me that spent 10 hours undergoing spinal surgery that involved a crush lowered spine, un-pinching my spinal chord, and installing hardware and performing a fusion?

You want to know how much that surgery cost? Along with the time spent recovering in the hospital? Over $200k. Yeah, I'd be wiped out.

You can't "standardize" that. Doctor's, even after the X-ray, CT Scan, and MRI, didn't know the full extent of damage until they cut me open.

Get out here man...
Well then you could tack on those extra little things as a la carte.

You can standardize the individual components/procedures/skus, what have you and then add up the cost of each. Each bill would vary depending on what was actually needed.

If that's not the case, how is Obamacare any better? Can we all chip in and dissect that bill and discuss? I've read bits and pieces of it.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #58
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Here it is...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-11...111publ148.pdf
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #59
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Well then you could tack on those extra little things as a la carte.

You can standardize the individual components/procedures/skus, what have you and then add up the cost of each. Each bill would vary depending on what was actually needed.
Standardize which individual components and procedures. Be specific. How are you going to do that, and how are you going to document all the permutations of possibilities of what's wrong, what could go wrong, etc?

So what, you suspect patient has X condition. You cut him open and the find holy F, he has Y and Z. Ok, we're going to add that "a la carte". Oh you can't afford it? Too bad, we can't fix you.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:51 PM   #60
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Standardize which individual components and procedures. Be specific. How are you going to do that, and how are you going to document all the permutations of possibilities of what's wrong, what could go wrong, etc?

So what, you suspect patient has X condition. You cut him open and the find holy F, he has Y and Z. Ok, we're going to add that "a la carte". Oh you can't afford it? Too bad, we can't fix you.
•Anesthesia
•Appendectomy
•Arthroscopy Joint Surgery
•Breast Augmentation
•Breast Surgeries
•Breast Lift Surgery
•Breast Lumpectomy Procedure
•Breast Reconstruction After Mastectomy
•Brow Lift Surgery
•Cataract Surgery
•Chest Tubes
•Emergency Surgery
•Facelift Surgery
•Gallbladder Surgery
•Gastric Bypass Surgery
•Heart Bypass Surgery
•Heart Surgery
•Hemorroid Surgery & Treatments
•Hernias From Diagnosis to Surgery
•Hip Replacement Surgery
•Hysterectomy
•Knee Replacement Surgery
•Laparotomy Surgery
•LASIK Eye Surgery
•Liposuction Surgery
•Mastectomy Surgeries
•MAZE Heart Procedure
•Myringotomy-Surgery To Insert Ear Tubes
•Organ Donation
•Organ Transplants
•Plastic Surgery
•Prostate Surgery
•Rhinoplasty "Nose Job"
•Spinal Surgeries
•Splenectomy: Surgery to Remove the Spleen
•Thyroidectomy: Surgery To Remove The Thyroid
•Tonsillectomy
•Vasectomy
•Weight Loss Surgeries

See where this is going...

Way too many procedures to list and discuss and you know that.

Insured or uninsured individual in question?
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Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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