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Old 08-11-2016, 11:02 AM   #1
GrayBMW
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Sound-please help!

Hi,

I upgraded my head unit with a Joying 7. I was feeling that my sound quality was empty but at high volumes it sounds OK. I did verify that all 10 speakers have sound.

I may just need to upgrade the HiFi amplifier. Has anyone upgraded the amplifier and kept the speakers the same?
Did it make a difference?

Thanks

Last edited by GrayBMW; 08-11-2016 at 01:11 PM. Reason: more evaluation of situation
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:55 AM   #2
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Joying 7???? I bet that's the root of the problem. Why did you replace the factory head unit?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:25 AM   #3
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Agreed with markusmarkus - can you go into a little more detail on what a Joying 7 is and why the head unit was replaced? The audio system in the E46 is pretty straightforward, so there has to be a simple solution here.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:21 AM   #4
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Hi guys, thanks for your response.

I bet the Joying 7 is OK and maybe I wasn't focusing on the sound enough before I replaced the head unit. I only had the car a week and I only had access to Radio (who knows where my CDs are?). So I can't verify that the empty sound is due to the change and like I said, it sounds OK when loud. I did a lot of research yesterday and it sounds like a lot of people are unhappy with their BMW radios. I bought a new X3 in the past and I had selected premium sound (non HK) and I was very pleased with that. I'm no audiophile.

Ultimately, I may just replace the speakers (eventually) with the Bavsound 1 and see where that takes me.

The reason I changed the head unit is because I wanted to bring the old, boring BMW business radio into the present where I could interact with my smartphone. I'm so pleased I changed it. It breathes new life into the car to be able to run Nav, bluetooth streaming, calls (although the car had built in bluetooth before just for calls), and I added the dash cam and back up cam just because I was bored and they were available to add. Since E46 is so old, I can't image anyone is worried about resale value at this point. I can't think of a good reason to stay with the business radio.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt@bavsound View Post
Agreed with markusmarkus - can you go into a little more detail on what a Joying 7 is and why the head unit was replaced? The audio system in the E46 is pretty straightforward, so there has to be a simple solution here.
A Joying 7 is just like a Eonon or Avin...an android based headunit made to be plug and play in the E46. It has a 7" screen, bluetooth, built in Gps, ability to answer and make handsfree calls, all the modern bells and whistles.
In my car I went from the business radio to an Alpine single din then to a Eonon. The biggest difference was when I changed the speakers (Dynaudio Components and Diamond audio subs). I also added amplifiers and a Rockford Fosgate 360.2 sound processor.

First thing I would try with the joying would to go to the built in equalizer and try playing with it to see if that helps. If you are still unhappy new speakers would be next and then add more power later.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:44 AM   #6
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A Joying 7 is just like a Eonon or Avin...an android based headunit made to be plug and play in the E46. It has a 7" screen, bluetooth, built in Gps, ability to answer and make handsfree calls, all the modern bells and whistles.
In my car I went from the business radio to an Alpine single din then to a Eonon. The biggest difference was when I changed the speakers (Dynaudio Components and Diamond audio subs). I also added amplifiers and a Rockford Fosgate 360.2 sound processor.

First thing I would try with the joying would to go to the built in equalizer and try playing with it to see if that helps. If you are still unhappy new speakers would be next and then add more power later.
Thanks. Yeah I messed around with the equalizer. The unit isn't bad with the music blasting but I'm not the type to drive around with my music blasting and would like to get nicer sound at lower volumes. I was reading yesterday about Bav Sound speakers. Why did you choose your speakers over Bav sound? How do they compare as far as quality and cost? Thanks.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:53 AM   #7
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Thanks. Yeah I messed around with the equalizer. The unit isn't bad with the music blasting but I'm not the type to drive around with my music blasting and would like to get nicer sound at lower volumes. I was reading yesterday about Bav Sound speakers. Why did you choose your speakers over Bav sound? How do they compare as far as quality and cost? Thanks.
My speakers were very expensive...and needed special work to the front doors to get them to fit.
The beauty of the bavsound speakers are that they are plug and play...and you pay more for that piece of mind.
If that ease of install is important to you then the premium is worth it. There are a lot of threads on here about their speakers...make sure to do some research before making any decisions.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:04 PM   #8
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Also dan4081, when you switched from the business to the other 2, did you notice any drop in sound quality? Particularly the base warmth? With base, there are two types it seems to me. There's the punchy boom that shakes (it has that at loud volumes)...then there is another type that seems to fill you if you know what I mean. It's not the drums Its the deeper sounds of the actual music.

Maybe my ears are becoming spoiled because my Amazon Tap is so good! They need to put speakers like that in cars. excellent base and treble. Ha ha.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:09 PM   #9
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My speakers were very expensive...and needed special work to the front doors to get them to fit.
The beauty of the bavsound speakers are that they are plug and play...and you pay more for that piece of mind.
If that ease of install is important to you then the premium is worth it. There are a lot of threads on here about their speakers...make sure to do some research before making any decisions.
Thanks. It seems they only have one option so it's either yes or no. The ghost subwoofer and the amplifier are not available for our cars.

I think the key question will be whether I want to install them myself or pay. I bet the install will be 3 hours so something like $360. To me I feel like $200 I'd pay but $360 I'd do it myself. LOL
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:21 PM   #10
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I just decided I'm going with BavSound so I'll get them installed next week.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GrayBMW View Post
Also dan4081, when you switched from the business to the other 2, did you notice any drop in sound quality? Particularly the base warmth? With base, there are two types it seems to me. There's the punchy boom that shakes (it has that at loud volumes)...then there is another type that seems to fill you if you know what I mean. It's not the drums Its the deeper sounds of the actual music.

Maybe my ears are becoming spoiled because my Amazon Tap is so good! They need to put speakers like that in cars. excellent base and treble. Ha ha.
Yes....I was surprised when I pulled the business head and switched to the alpine I lost a lot of the warmth of the sound...most of the mid bass was gone.
I then added the rest of the system and it sounds great.
No difference from the alpine to the eonon when I recently made that switch other than I had to turn my amplifiers gains up to make up for the lower voltage from the eonon's line level outputs.
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Old 08-12-2016, 05:37 PM   #12
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Yes....I was surprised when I pulled the business head and switched to the alpine I lost a lot of the warmth of the sound...most of the mid bass was gone.
I then added the rest of the system and it sounds great.
No difference from the alpine to the eonon when I recently made that switch other than I had to turn my amplifiers gains up to make up for the lower voltage from the eonon's line level outputs.
Great thanks. You describe EXACTLY what I think happened to me. That WARMTH or RESONANCE is what I've been trying to describe. I think those back to speakers behind the rear seats sound good.

The more and more I listen, the more I get used to it. I really think it sounds decent when I turn the volume all the way up. The base isn't really distorted (from digital...from radio it is) and the other sounds come through pretty good. My issue is I'm not the type of guy who likes to drive around with the radio blasting. But I must admit..with it blasting it sounds just fine. Someone might think I'm nuts for complaining. But who wants to blast all the time?

I'm hoping with my new sound system I can enjoy the same feeling I have when its loud at medium sound.

You make me nervous when you talk about turning amplifier gains up I hope I don't need to deal with any of that.
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Old 08-12-2016, 05:42 PM   #13
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I kept thinking there was some kind of base missing but it's probably the middle. The voice is OK The drums are OK but its the music when nobody is singing and excluding the drums that leaves something to be desired. Because it sounded empty, I often think of it as missing base. Maybe it's the low middles. I can't wait to see the difference. I think I'm going to stop after the bavsound. I'm not an audiophile. I guess Im starting to change my opinion though. I always assumed those who were blasting their music were trying to get attention or show off their sound system but now I wonder if they were just doing what is necessary to get good sound. LOL
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:37 PM   #14
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Just read over the last few posts - I'm completely in the loop now as to what's going on in your car. I'm in complete agreement with where the thread is going. The BMW OEM radio has higher voltage outputs to the factory amplifier than the Joying does, and is equalized from the factory to work with the OEM amp and speakers to give you the sound you're describing - warm, full, rich, etc...

The suggestion to adjust the eq on the Joying unit is a great one, and dan4081 is totally on point - after adjusting the EQ, the next step is speakers.

Swapping out the speakers for something high-quality and easy to install is going to give you the most bang for your buck, as you can effectively double the amount of power going to a speaker by halving the impedance (for example), so an aftermarket speaker that is designed for higher efficiency is going to give you more from the existing amplifier/head unit setup.

On the EQ, I would suggest not increasing any frequency adjustments on the EQ. You only want to cut, and not boost. The typical frequencies that give most listeners annoyance or listening fatigue are 400hz, 1khz, 4khz and 10khz. Try cutting those a bit first before adjusting any other frequencies. Make sure you use the same song repeatedly so you can hear the difference you adjustments are making.

Let us know how it all works out!
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Old 08-13-2016, 07:52 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by matt@bavsound View Post
Just read over the last few posts - I'm completely in the loop now as to what's going on in your car. I'm in complete agreement with where the thread is going. The BMW OEM radio has higher voltage outputs to the factory amplifier than the Joying does, and is equalized from the factory to work with the OEM amp and speakers to give you the sound you're describing - warm, full, rich, etc...

The suggestion to adjust the eq on the Joying unit is a great one, and dan4081 is totally on point - after adjusting the EQ, the next step is speakers.

Swapping out the speakers for something high-quality and easy to install is going to give you the most bang for your buck, as you can effectively double the amount of power going to a speaker by halving the impedance (for example), so an aftermarket speaker that is designed for higher efficiency is going to give you more from the existing amplifier/head unit setup.

On the EQ, I would suggest not increasing any frequency adjustments on the EQ. You only want to cut, and not boost. The typical frequencies that give most listeners annoyance or listening fatigue are 400hz, 1khz, 4khz and 10khz. Try cutting those a bit first before adjusting any other frequencies. Make sure you use the same song repeatedly so you can hear the difference you adjustments are making.

Let us know how it all works out!
Hi matt,

Thanks for your input. Playing around with the equalizer doesn't do the trick. I'm getting Bavsound next week (my installer has ordered) so we will see.

So voltage output is the key eh? I just want to be able to provide feedback to Joying. That makes sense. Maybe that's why it sounds better when it is loud.
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Old 08-15-2016, 05:33 PM   #16
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I think that's definitely a good call. The increased efficiency of the Bavsound speakers should make a world of difference, and will hopefully get you where you want to be! It is possible to add a line driver to an aftermarket radio to increase voltage between it and the amplifier, but there are honestly much better places to spend that money and time.

Let us know ho it turns out!
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Old 08-15-2016, 05:57 PM   #17
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I think that's definitely a good call. The increased efficiency of the Bavsound speakers should make a world of difference, and will hopefully get you where you want to be! It is possible to add a line driver to an aftermarket radio to increase voltage between it and the amplifier, but there are honestly much better places to spend that money and time.

Let us know ho it turns out!
Thanks. I'm hoping the speakers do the trick. Im not trying to turn into an obsessive audiophile.

BMW is capable of making decent sound. Im not sure why they won't. I had an X3 before...2005. I had ordered "Premium" sound on it. That was higher than the standard and less than the HK. I was quite pleased with the sound on that. I had no issues.

One thing about Bavsound that confused me is they only seemed to have 2 options...HiFi and HK. I was under the impression that there were 3 sound options...standard then HiFi then HK. That gave me a little pause. Since I wasn't around for the ordering of this 325i I don't know.
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Old 08-15-2016, 08:22 PM   #18
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Agreed - I've heard some BMW models with pretty decent stock systems, although decent is definitely subjective and up to what the listener wants and expects...the other thing about these cars is they're getting just a little up in years, so the speakers have a tendency to wear out and deteriorate over time due to the inhospitable nature of car interiors (sun, water, wind, dirt, etc). Sounds like you're experiencing a combination of the two! You want a bit more than BMW offered in the E46, and the speakers are 11 years old.

Bavsound only offers the two different options because the speaker impedance is the primary difference between the HK and the other two. If you were to put their HK speakers in a standard or hifi, you would experience a lowering in midbass volume and an increase in midrange volume - also the amplifier would be working harder than it was designed to. Conversely, putting the hifi/standard speakers in an HK car would result in an increase in midbass volume, with a decrease in midrange. The amplifier would also be working harder than it was designed to.

Looking forward to hearing the difference the new speakers make!
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:05 PM   #19
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Agreed - I've heard some BMW models with pretty decent stock systems, although decent is definitely subjective and up to what the listener wants and expects...the other thing about these cars is they're getting just a little up in years, so the speakers have a tendency to wear out and deteriorate over time due to the inhospitable nature of car interiors (sun, water, wind, dirt, etc). Sounds like you're experiencing a combination of the two! You want a bit more than BMW offered in the E46, and the speakers are 11 years old.

Bavsound only offers the two different options because the speaker impedance is the primary difference between the HK and the other two. If you were to put their HK speakers in a standard or hifi, you would experience a lowering in midbass volume and an increase in midrange volume - also the amplifier would be working harder than it was designed to. Conversely, putting the hifi/standard speakers in an HK car would result in an increase in midbass volume, with a decrease in midrange. The amplifier would also be working harder than it was designed to.

Looking forward to hearing the difference the new speakers make!
Wow. Thanks for the explanation. So you guys agree that there are 3 (like I said I can only confirm there were 3 for the X3 but I assumed the same for E46). The way your website lists it as Standard with "HiFi" in parentheses made me think you were saying the standard was the HiFi. So now I see it was supposed to be Standard or HiFi. That makes sense. Thanks.

Thanks for the explanation on old speakers. I swear sometimes I think I'm crazy when I hear certain sounds. Some sounds are excellent. Some sounds are crisp. I think the high sounds, the voice and the deep base are good. I've come to realize it is the midrange that is not good. I always thought of that as base. It may be base but just not the throbbing drum one. I think we are al on the same page though. It's that warmth that stays in your chest when a song is playing even when the person is not singing (the background music). That's the issue.

Batman Darknight by Hanz Zimmer sounds dreadful in the car and it sounded good in a recent rental (Chevy Malibu) so that wil be a good test song along with Naughty Girl.

The more that I think of it, while the Bose Sound Dock was awesome, I think if a car can make a song sound similar to the apple iphone earpods then success.

Hopefully by the end of this week or the weekend I'll know.
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:21 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by matt@bavsound View Post
Agreed - I've heard some BMW models with pretty decent stock systems, although decent is definitely subjective and up to what the listener wants and expects...the other thing about these cars is they're getting just a little up in years, so the speakers have a tendency to wear out and deteriorate over time due to the inhospitable nature of car interiors (sun, water, wind, dirt, etc). Sounds like you're experiencing a combination of the two! You want a bit more than BMW offered in the E46, and the speakers are 11 years old.

...
Looking forward to hearing the difference the new speakers make!
I just looked up my old VIN for the X3 to see what sound system I had. It was:
677 HIFI SYSTEM PROFESSIONAL

That was a good sounding system (to my ears). It was offered as "premium" upgrade vs the standard but below HK.

The one in this car is:

676 HIFI LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM

Clearly not the same sound system (unless it is that age theory you mentioned).


Matt you sound like an expert so you can probably tell the difference between the two systems. Now Im wondering whether my Bavsound will be the same better or worse than that HIFI Professional. No pressure It's been a while so as long as it beats the current one, I may not notice. LOL
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