E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-26-2013, 11:42 PM   #81
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,638
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond42262 View Post
the most recent attack or the one last month ?
Either/any. As far as I'd seen, the first UN inspectors were getting there this week to investigate.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
NOVAbimmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 11:52 PM   #82
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: I'm alive
Posts: 4,889
My Ride: E46 M3
'busa is still sitting alone on his justification
__________________
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 11:56 PM   #83
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Quote:
Originally Posted by ti317 View Post
Too long to quote your post but it seems the "tipping point" was reached awfully quickly.
Indeed

From ~25 Jan to ~11 Feb.

All Egypt needed was a catalyst and that was the Arab Spring. Mubarak days were numbered once it all got started.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ti317 View Post
Also, if you read what I wrote, I used the term Islamist extremists, like Christian extremists. I did not confuse the terms nor substitute one for the other. In your haste to impress with your insight I to the region, maybe you could have spent a little time actually reading my post.
Saw that. My bad. I initially interpreted it differently.






Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Last edited by MDydinanM; 08-26-2013 at 11:57 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 12:00 AM   #84
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Let's not exaggerate the influence that Washington has in Egypt. Our $1 Billion aid package is nothing compared to the packages promised by UAE, Saudi, and Kuwait.
Egypt has also been surviving off bailouts from Qatar and surprisingly Libya.

The Egyptian military, however, is in need for our aid to sustain themselves. They have a lot of equipment that is US made and therefore need our parts. Egypt may not need it, but the military sure does and it would be a red line for them should the Muslim Brotherhood jeopardize it.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 02:10 AM   #85
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 453
My Ride: Is German
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
Either/any. As far as I'd seen, the first UN inspectors were getting there this week to investigate.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
These links are related to the chemical weapons assault that occurred in July...........




Evidence: Syrian Rebels used Chemical Weapons (not Assad)

by Shoebat Foundation on August 27, 2013 in Blog, General
By Walid Shoebat and Ben Barrack

Recent news of a chemical weapons attack in Syria smacks of desperation. The question comes down to who is most desperate right now, the Assad regime or the Muslim Brotherhood rebels? Consider that since June, Assad's forces have been winning. According to a CBS News report from last month, victories for the rebels had become "increasingly rare" and that the Muslim Brotherhood-backed opposition fighters were sustaining "some of their heaviest losses" near Damascus.

Saudi Chemicals in hands of Syrian Rebels

The New York Times echoed this sentiment, even saying that before gaining the upper hand, concerns were that Assad would use chemical weapons; he did not.

In fact, even before Assad's forces gained the momentum, a UN official reportedly found evidence of rebels using chemical weapons but no evidence Assad's regime did. This, from a Washington Times article by Shaun Waterman dated May 6, 2013:

Testimony from victims strongly suggests it was the rebels, not the Syrian government, that used Sarin nerve gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior U.N. diplomat said Monday.

Carla del Ponte, a member of the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were "strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof," that rebels seeking to oust Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad had used the nerve agent.

But she said her panel had not yet seen any evidence of Syrian government forces using chemical weapons, according to the BBC, but she added that more investigation was needed. {emphasis ours}

Today, while the rebels are more desperate than they were at the time of that article, evidence of rebels using chemical weapons is available; evidence Assad's regime has used them is not.

Waterman wrote...

Rebel Free Syrian Army spokesman Louay Almokdad denied that rebels had use chemical weapons.

That doesn't square with a video uploaded on August 23, 2013, in which Free Syrian operatives threatened to launch chemical weapons:

http://shoebat.com/2013/08/27/eviden...used-chemical-
weapons-not-assad/

-------------------



Here's a roundup of the main developments on Syria so far today:

Syria has warned that it could use chemical weapons in response to any "external aggression" but not against internal dissent. Foreign ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said such weapons are under the control of the military and "will never be used unless Syria faces external aggression".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/mid...o-battles-live

-------------------------





The Syrian army has discovered a storehouse belonging to rebels in the Damascus area of Jobar, where toxic chemical substances - including chlorine - have been produced and kept, State TV reported.

Military sources reported that the militants "were preparing to fire mortars in the suburbs of the capital and were going to pack missiles with chemical warheads."


http://rt.com/news/damascus-syria-chemical-weapons-082/
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------

Last edited by Raymond42262; 08-27-2013 at 02:39 AM.
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 02:16 AM   #86
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 453
My Ride: Is German
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
Either/any. As far as I'd seen, the first UN inspectors were getting there this week to investigate.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Are you still an officer in the National Guard / Reserves ?

Do you ever receive briefings providing you information that is not available from CNN/Fox News ?
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:09 AM   #87
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,638
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Not from the national guard, and not on anything dealing with chemical weapon.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
NOVAbimmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:10 AM   #88
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,638
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

What on earth is the "shoebat foundation"?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
NOVAbimmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:02 AM   #89
ti317
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 663
My Ride: 02 330ci coupe 5 spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
Indeed



Saw that. My bad. I initially interpreted it differently.






Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
We all miss them from time to time. I don't think we are really far apart on this issue. Regardless of how we got to this point, I don't see much profit in getting embroiled in another entanglement in the Middle East.
Do you?
__________________
Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
ti317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:06 AM   #90
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Quote:
Originally Posted by ti317 View Post
We all miss them from time to time. I don't think we are really far apart on this issue. Regardless of how we got to this point, I don't see much profit in getting embroiled in another entanglement in the Middle East.
Do you?
No. Absolutely not. But there are other things we can do besides a military approach.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Last edited by MDydinanM; 08-27-2013 at 07:08 AM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:56 AM   #91
rapier7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ATL
Posts: 78
My Ride: Subaru BRZ
The longer this war drags on, the further it destabilizes the region. Right now, it's a huge proxy war being fought on behalf of Israel and the Arab gulf states versus Russia and Iran. The biggest Arab players (except Egypt, which is mired in its own domestic conflict) want Assad and the Alawites out. Given our close ties with the most powerful Arab states and the inability for them to decisively defeat Assad on their own, it might make sense to intervene on behalf of the Syrian rebels and then deal with the fallout later.

At this point, I think the US has to intervene. The President cannot publicly talk about red lines and refuse to act when those lines have been crossed. It destroys the US' credibility amongst both allies and enemies.
__________________
http://meta-rhetoric.com - Unfiltered Reality
rapier7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 10:59 AM   #92
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,029
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapier7 View Post
The longer this war drags on, the further it destabilizes the region. Right now, it's a huge proxy war being fought on behalf of Israel and the Arab gulf states versus Russia and Iran. The biggest Arab players (except Egypt, which is mired in its own domestic conflict) want Assad and the Alawites out. Given our close ties with the most powerful Arab states and the inability for them to decisively defeat Assad on their own, it might make sense to intervene on behalf of the Syrian rebels and then deal with the fallout later.

At this point, I think the US has to intervene. The President cannot publicly talk about red lines and refuse to act when those lines have been crossed. It destroys the US' credibility amongst both allies and enemies.
But my question is : Will the fallout result in an end result that is more stable than Assad? It seems to me that it won't. I use that lightly because I really don't have enough perspective on all the moving pieces to have that strong of an opinion (which is why I have stayed out).

At the end of the day, if Assad is more stable than the "likely fallout" Obama should keep his mouth shut and stay out of it.. don't talk about red lines unless you're going to do something.. and don't do something unless we KNOW that it will result in a better tomorrow.
__________________

435 Horsepower 328Ci
Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 01:06 PM   #93
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 03:27 PM   #94
ti317
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 663
My Ride: 02 330ci coupe 5 spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
No. Absolutely not. But there are other things we can do besides a military approach.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Yes there are and I am one to them. My problem is, I don't know who the good guys are. I am not even convinced that Assad used chemical weapons.
The rebels have more to gain if the world thinks Assad used them than he does. Look at the reaction now.

It's like the burning of the Reichstag. It was used to justify the Nazi crackdown on opposition.
__________________
Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
ti317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 05:39 PM   #95
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti317 View Post
Yes there are and I am one to them. My problem is, I don't know who the good guys are. I am not even convinced that Assad used chemical weapons.
The rebels have more to gain if the world thinks Assad used them than he does. Look at the reaction now.

It's like the burning of the Reichstag. It was used to justify the Nazi crackdown on opposition.
I guess what I'm really opposed to is conducting military action that as a result, can escalate and lead to war and another "occupation". Maybe not during this administration, or the next, but in the future.

For example, Iraq. We sanctioned and embargoed them for years. That escalated. I know the two situations are different, but with all this posturing going on, the media hype, it's like deja vu all over again for an Iraq vet like myself with striking similarities from our recent history.

I'm also opposed to not having a clearly defined end game. What do we hope to accomplish? What's the objective? These are lessons learned from Iraq. We went in there and never defined what "victory" was. Mission creep set in and we stayed there for years. We were ill prepared to deal with a country that fell apart after we removed Saddam. Worse yet, we dismantled the military (a major employer and force of stability) and upset thousands of young males that became disenfranchised and started an insurgency.

I know Sec State, et all, have said that our role will be limited, no boots on the ground, and duration short, but what does that mean? I think they owe the American people what "victory is" or a game plan. Especially after the Iraq war.

For instance, ok, so they strike the Syrian military's airfields, weapon depots, etc. If that's the extent of it, fine. But what happens if Assad does a chemical strike again (assuming Syrian govt is responsible)? What then? Do we escalate and impose a no fly zone? Then what?

In regards to your Reichstag scenario. I guess anything is possible. Each side could blame each other for various reasons and point the finger. I guess we'll find out in the coming days.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 08-27-2013 at 05:39 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:22 PM   #96
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,638
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

The big question is "if we commit to military action, what next?"

We've tried ending internal problems by launching a few cruise missiles and calling it a day, it doesn't work.

It's a civil war, let them fight it. There's no good end for American interests in getting involved.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
NOVAbimmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:37 PM   #97
2000_328CI
DK Jack Sparrow
 
2000_328CI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Isla de Muerta | DC/VA
Posts: 29,029
My Ride: 328Ci | Range Rover
Send a message via AIM to 2000_328CI Send a message via MSN to 2000_328CI
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
The big question is "if we commit to military action, what next?"

We've tried ending internal problems by launching a few cruise missiles and calling it a day, it doesn't work.

It's a civil war, let them fight it. There's no good end for American interests in getting involved.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
This. And isn't the same president who heckled W for having "no clear resolve to his war" now pushing for military action with no notion whatsoever what will follow?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

435 Horsepower 328Ci
Everything you need to know on muffler deletes : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=745244
Wrapping an E46 in Vinyl : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=bronze
2000_328CI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:53 PM   #98
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Opposition says as many as 1,300 killed in gas attack near Damascus

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
This. And isn't the same president who heckled W for having "no clear resolve to his war" now pushing for military action with no notion whatsoever what will follow?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Is it really Obama pushing for military action? That's strange. I see Senator McCain calling for military action more. I could be mistaken but I don't recall him saying something that specific. I think it was something to the extent of "all options are on the table...being considered" "all military options being considered"

I also see Hagel positioning the Navy in case a green light is given.

Edit

It seems its more of your Grand Old Party friends that are urging Obama to "get off the sidelines with Syria"

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Last edited by MDydinanM; 08-27-2013 at 07:00 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:56 PM   #99
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 826
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
This. And isn't the same president who heckled W for having "no clear resolve to his war" now pushing for military action with no notion whatsoever what will follow?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
I'm sure that you are aware that this is basically the name of the game with politics, yes?

Republicans supported Obamacare when it was Republocare.

Democrats support a potential quagmire when they're guy is in office vs. Dubya.

No surprises.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:01 PM   #100
Goughie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Over the pond...
Posts: 564
My Ride: 330d Sport Touring
UK parliament has been recalled from recess to debate the issue. It looks certain that UK, France and US are going to do something, but who knows what. Analysis from BBC suggests tomahawk strikes from US 6th fleet in the Med most probable, but situation complicated because these countries don't want Al Nusra Front (AQ affiliated) to get their hands on the chemical weapons, either.

All I'll say is that Obama, Cameron and Hollande have to earn their salaries over the coming weeks and months ahead. Not sure I'd want their jobs right now.
__________________
http://i38.tinypic.com/oif03r.png
Sig is a BlownE30M3 production!

"The protection of views purely on religious grounds cannot be justified. It is not only an irrational idea, but it is also divisive, capricious and arbitrary" - Lord Justice Laws, UK 29/04/2010
Goughie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use