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Old 08-23-2013, 08:42 AM   #21
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+1



I actually agree. If it's an option to everyone else, bankruptcy should be an option to people with student loans as well.
If that happened, I know at least 100 people personally that would file for bankruptcy the following morning after walking out with their diploma. As a college grad, you have nothing to lose (filing for bankruptcy) and getting rid of 100K in debt is a very smart financial move. My wife had over 200K in loans (58K left) and my brother in law (recent law school grad) is pushing 250K. His payback amount far exceeds his income (he couldn't even get a decent law job) so filing for bankruptcy would have been the best financial investment possible for him. However, this would have the taxpayers holding the bag. Allowing loans to be discharged being the only measure is not the solution. So long as feds are involved in tuition costs, this problem will never go away, and the bubble will continue to grow, until that day comes (and it will) when enough people simply stop paying their loans because it's financially stupid.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:48 AM   #22
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If that happened, I know at least 100 people personally that would file for bankruptcy the following morning after walking out with their diploma. As a college grad, you have nothing to lose (filing for bankruptcy) and getting rid of 100K in debt is a very smart financial move. My wife had over 200K in loans (58K left) and my brother in law (recent law school grad) is pushing 250K. His payback amount far exceeds his income (he couldn't even get a decent law job) so filing for bankruptcy would have been the best financial investment possible for him. However, this would have the taxpayers holding the bag. Allowing loans to be discharged being the only measure is not the solution. So long as feds are involved in tuition costs, this problem will never go away, and the bubble will continue to grow, until that day comes (and it will) when enough people simply stop paying their loans because it's financially stupid.
it's kind of like people who abuse programs like welfare; which in many states pays much better than minimum wage. it doesn't make sense to work when you can sit home and make more.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:50 AM   #23
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Glad people picked up the slack on teaching the ignorant why the federal student loan industry is the cause of the tuition bubble. good job gentlemen
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:52 AM   #24
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it's kind of like people who abuse programs like welfare- which in many states pays much better than minimum wage. it doesn't make sense to work when you can sit home and make more.
UGH. The Cato report? It's bullsh*t. They took pretty much every possible benefit (as if everyone was eligible for EVERY benefit) and converted it to dollars and added it up. If that report were true, I'd move to those states where they say you can get $60k per year without working IMMEDIATELY.

I'd like to see one of the people claiming this actually live on welfare for a month or two, to prove their point.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:53 AM   #25
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If that happened, I know at least 100 people personally that would file for bankruptcy the following morning after walking out with their diploma. As a college grad, you have nothing to lose (filing for bankruptcy) and getting rid of 100K in debt is a very smart financial move. My wife had over 200K in loans (58K left) and my brother in law (recent law school grad) is pushing 250K. His payback amount far exceeds his income (he couldn't even get a decent law job) so filing for bankruptcy would have been the best financial investment possible for him. However, this would have the taxpayers holding the bag. Allowing loans to be discharged being the only measure is not the solution. So long as feds are involved in tuition costs, this problem will never go away, and the bubble will continue to grow, until that day comes (and it will) when enough people simply stop paying their loans because it's financially stupid.
If it's financially stupid to pay back a loan, maybe banks won't give out loans that make no financial sense to people.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:01 AM   #26
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If it's financially stupid to pay back a loan, maybe banks won't give out loans that make no financial sense to people.
Banks will HAPPILY hand out loans that the government backs, why wouldn't they? Why do you think student loan debt is the ONLY loan that cannot be discharged?
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:02 AM   #27
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UGH. The Cato report? It's bullsh*t. They took pretty much every possible benefit (as if everyone was eligible for EVERY benefit) and converted it to dollars and added it up. If that report were true, I'd move to those states where they say you can get $60k per year without working IMMEDIATELY.

I'd like to see one of the people claiming this actually live on welfare for a month or two, to prove their point.
The PA lawmakers agree. It is better to be on government assistance in some areas of PA then it is to work.
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/jul...00-a-year-job/
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #28
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If it's financially stupid to pay back a loan, maybe banks won't give out loans that make no financial sense to people.
That's the point. If banks had a risk they would be more careful. Since they are more careful they wouldn't be loaning out as much money as easily.

With less loans available, there is less money available to pay tuition. Seats would be empty, elbow padded jacket sales would plummet. Schools would have to lower tuition to meet the market demand or they would have to close their doors.

Imagine what college would cost if everyone had to pay as they go? All loans do is shift demand curves, while supply remains static.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:10 AM   #29
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Re: Article & Discussion: Obama Takes on the College Cartel

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If that report were true, I'd move to those states where they say you can get $60k per year without working IMMEDIATELY.
God you liberals are easy to spot.



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Old 08-23-2013, 09:12 AM   #30
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The PA lawmakers agree. It is better to be on government assistance in some areas of PA then it is to work.
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/07/jul...00-a-year-job/
Most benefits are very short term. Of course it is not better to rely on welfare if one can earn more money.

The fact that some employers (Walmart for one) are subsidized by the government because we have to make up for the ridiculously low wages is terrible.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:30 AM   #31
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Banks will HAPPILY hand out loans that the government backs, why wouldn't they? Why do you think student loan debt is the ONLY loan that cannot be discharged?
If a bank is looking to make a profit, what sense would it make to lend their money to a 18yr old student with the chance of bankruptcy? The process of federally backed loans would not be an issue if schools don't monkey rape students with tuition costs. Students are coming out of college with a mortgage and maybe 3 semesters of actual education. Hell, I could easily argue an Associates is all that is needed for 95% of all jobs.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:42 AM   #32
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If a bank is looking to make a profit, what sense would it make to lend their money to a 18yr old student with the chance of bankruptcy? The process of federally backed loans would not be an issue if schools don't monkey rape students with tuition costs. Students are coming out of college with a mortgage and maybe 3 semesters of actual education. Hell, I could easily argue an Associates is all that is needed for 95% of all jobs.
Excellent point. Banks would give out tiny loans (much like first time CC customers get a $500 limit), but universities can have their own loan systems, and even they wouldn't give out large loans since overextending themselves would result in college bankruptcy. Hell, banks can give out loans 1 semester at a time. This will require a college student to keep a reasonable job while in school, and require them to make minimum payments. This will teach the yonger people the value of hard work, and give them less time do spend drinking out of a keg, and more time picking up useful skills that they can use later on in their life....and yes, that includes working at Mcdonalds.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:56 AM   #33
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Not really. Most colleges are huge rackets when you consider the cost of attendance and the value returned.
With the average student loan debt load being roughly $26k and the average increase in lifetime earnings of a college degree vs. a highschool degree, I would argue that going to college is a pretty solid investment pending that one majors in something useful. Aka, not a soft major.

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Right now, Federal loans "subsidize" the cost of attending college but it also inflates the sticker price. Most of the subsidy is captured by the colleges themselves because 17 and 18 year old kids are universally ignorant about financial matters and most of their parents aren't that much better.
Totally and 100% agree.

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Any Federal ranking is going to be, at best, duplicative of the current rankings systems (which aren't that great to begin with). At worst, it's going to kick off an explosion of special interest lobbying and administrative gaming of the rankings system. There is absolutely no need for the Federal government to stick its nose in this issue.
That's a great point.....the rating system sounds like a decent concept, but the government would totally shite the bed on the execution.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:05 AM   #34
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With the average student loan debt load being roughly $26k and the average increase in lifetime earnings of a college degree vs. a highschool degree, I would argue that going to college is a pretty solid investment pending that one majors in something useful. Aka, not a soft major.



Totally and 100% agree.



That's a great point.....the rating system sounds like a decent concept, but the government would totally shite the bed on the execution.
Your example IMHO is a little skewed. While many public universities are indeed not THAT expensive, the goal of most is to get into the best school possible, and a 4 year degree sure as hell isn't 26K, especially if you need board. On top of that, grad school is often FAR more, and the return is on average, fairly low. A decent lawschool will set you back 200K, but the average job will probably get you 55k, IF you can find it. With living expenses, your loan is un-repayable. Furthermore, the models these idiots use for loan repayment structuring are laughable. I do agree with you about picking a decent major though. Going to NYU at 50K a year to film school is probably not the greatest investment.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:10 AM   #35
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Your example IMHO is a little skewed. While many public universities are indeed not THAT expensive, the goal of most is to get into the best school possible, and a 4 year degree sure as hell isn't 26K, especially if you need board. On top of that, grad school is often FAR more, and the return is on average, fairly low. A decent lawschool will set you back 200K, but the average job will probably get you 55k, IF you can find it. With living expenses, your loan is un-repayable. Furthermore, the models these idiots use for loan repayment structuring are laughable. I do agree with you about picking a decent major though. Going to NYU at 50K a year to film school is probably not the greatest investment.


Agreed.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:20 AM   #36
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my school is nearly 60k a year now, wtf!
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:23 AM   #37
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my school is nearly 60k a year now, wtf!
I was lucky enough to go to a great school and come out with only $10K in debt. I'm looking at going back to get my masters (either MBA or MS in applied financial economics) and it's definite sticker shock. $1000/credit hour

My employer will pay for $5900 per year which is barely a dent I feel like.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:25 AM   #38
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Is it really such a good thing, however, to only promote degrees that result in guaranteed financial profit? Why should every degree be useful?
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:33 AM   #39
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Almost ALL of Obama's ideas regarding college have only further infuriated me. Like almost all of his policies, they harp on furthered government expansion, control, and intervention.

For example :

Quote:
Rank colleges based on performance. Unlike the “best colleges” rankings published by a number of private organizations, the government’s scorecard would measure things such as affordability, a school’s outreach to disadvantaged students, graduation rates and the real-world earnings of graduates once they enter the job market. Obama wants these rankings to be in place by the time the 2015 school year begins. The Dept. of Education already provides some affordability data on colleges; under the rating system, there would be even more info and it would be easier to compare colleges.
The goal here isn't to rank them based on how they support students or the insights of their professors. Rather, it's on how affordable they are (is the cheapest car the best?), how they outreach to disadvantaged students (are those acting as charities "better"?), real world earnings (is this how we define success?).... and he wants this all monitored by the DOE? An organization that has already done irreparable damage to public education?

I've seen the damage done to schools as they try and accommodate the "expectations" of critics like "The Princeton Review". Rather than focusing on the quality of teachers, schools will hire under qualified professors simply to improve their teacher-student rations. They'll create new worthless facilities so they can score higher in "campus life" or other intangible, qualitative characteristics. Instating government review boards would only lead to more of this... which AGAIN removes focus from the education and pushes it towards appeasing some critics... and this goes without mentioning the fact that schools (under obama's plan) will be encouraged to just pass anyone who enrolls.. after all, that's an indication of a "good school" according to barack.

Then we can look at costs. Why are costs going up? It's NOT because the schools are Meccas of profit. Rather, they are building facilities for the sole purpose of entertaining and impressing students... why? Because education in this nation at a college level is no longer about the actual school work.. the focus is on this "lifestyle" and the "parties" and sex... let's be real. So you have a ton of kids enrolling in schools because they want "the experience".

I want a shift AWAY from colleges and towards trade school. Get individuals educated on a craft that they can actually do something with. Mechanics, engineers, whatever... for those who NEED higher education, have the intelligence for it, and will make use of it.. by all means go. On the contrary, Obama wants EVERYONE going to college. He sees that as a path to a better tomorrow.. that may be the case if everyone in the US wanted to be a doctor or lawyer.. but that isn't the case and, frankly, our nation isn't intelligent enough to do that. So Obama and I are at complete odds. He wants everyone to be treated fairly and to instate a financial system where we can provide that.. I want people to do what is practically valuable. And there is the line that will never be reconciled. I want productivity and reality.. he wants fantasy land and "equality".

As for costs... if you SIGN UP WILLINGLY to take on debt for college, you PAY IT BACK. I'm so tired of this "forgiveness" nonsense... "oh the poor kids who didn't recognize the bills.. blah blah blah". That's their doing. This "forgiveness" and lack of integrity around personal responsibility is just infuriating.... and honestly, it's just him pandering to the irresponsible masses.. those same masses he wants to provide a higher education degree at the expense of taxpayers. Because rather than being realistic and telling those people they don't need college and shouldn't go, he'd rather pander to them with a free college experience regardless of the usefulness ofi t. Again, it's about his idealistic world regardless of the national debt we'll encounter going there.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:40 AM   #40
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Is it really such a good thing, however, to only promote degrees that result in guaranteed financial profit? Why should every degree be useful?
because we want people that can sustain themselves
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