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Old 08-23-2013, 10:43 AM   #41
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I was lucky enough to go to a great school and come out with only $10K in debt. I'm looking at going back to get my masters (either MBA or MS in applied financial economics) and it's definite sticker shock. $1000/credit hour

My employer will pay for $5900 per year which is barely a dent I feel like.
If I did it all again now, holy crap

60k x 4 = 240,000 undergrad liberal arts economics degree
50k x 3 = 150,000 law school

That's freaking 390,000 in tuition alone, my god! My first job out of law school paid $30,000 and I was top 15% of my class. NOT WORTH IT
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:51 AM   #42
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because we want people that can sustain themselves
Plenty of people can sustain themselves without finishing college even. Do you not want film makers, artists, poets, authors?
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:37 AM   #43
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Article & Discussion: Obama Takes on the College Cartel

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Is it really such a good thing, however, to only promote degrees that result in guaranteed financial profit? Why should every degree be useful?
College used to be for people to find their passions, their interests, etc. at today's prices, college has become nothing more than an investment. One needs to make a decision whether or not that investment is worthwhile. For many, it is. For a lot, it isn't. It can pave the way for great success, or it can condemn you to a lifetime of debt and hardship.


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Old 08-23-2013, 11:40 AM   #44
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Article & Discussion: Obama Takes on the College Cartel

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Plenty of people can sustain themselves without finishing college even. Do you not want film makers, artists, poets, authors?
Many successful people in that field became successful DESPITE college. Also, technology today vastly changes the field. Plenty of great documentaries put out without a degree from juliard. College seldom provides the world with great ideas. Facebook, apple, etc are not thanks to college.


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Old 08-23-2013, 11:42 AM   #45
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Many successful people in that field became successful DESPITE college. Also, technology today vastly changes the field. Plenty of great documentaries put out without a degree from juliard. College seldom provides the world with great ideas. Facebook, apple, etc are not thanks to college.


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Eh, Facebook kind of is. I'm sure Zuckerpoo would have done great things, but his series of events occurred BECAUSE he was at college.....regardless, I see your point.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:03 PM   #46
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Plenty of people can sustain themselves without finishing college even. Do you not want film makers, artists, poets, authors?
No, they don't.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:04 PM   #47
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Many successful people in that field became successful DESPITE college. Also, technology today vastly changes the field. Plenty of great documentaries put out without a degree from juliard. College seldom provides the world with great ideas. Facebook, apple, etc are not thanks to college.
Facebook, apple and others are outliers. They're exceptions. Not rules.

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College used to be for people to find their passions, their interests, etc. at today's prices, college has become nothing more than an investment. One needs to make a decision whether or not that investment is worthwhile. For many, it is. For a lot, it isn't. It can pave the way for great success, or it can condemn you to a lifetime of debt and hardship.
That's sad state of affairs. Should we accept that and only teach things that equal dollars? What if a kid wants to be a physicist, but all the jobs are in engineering? What if a person wants to become a linguist but opts for accounting because of the low benefit/high cost ratio?

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No, they don't.
Bleak world.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:12 PM   #48
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Many successful people in that field became successful DESPITE college. Also, technology today vastly changes the field. Plenty of great documentaries put out without a degree from juliard. College seldom provides the world with great ideas. Facebook, apple, etc are not thanks to college.
And just what do you think the percentage is of non-degreed employees at Facebook and Apple? It is way less than 10%.

Should we even mention that Zuckerberg created the early versions of facebook while attending Harvard.

I am not the biggest supported of the college system as it currently stands today, but, one must, if begrudgingly, give them some credit.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #49
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A 1985 dollar has the same buying buying power as $2.18 today. The cost of tuition and fees for an in-state resident at a UC in 1985 was $750 a qtr. It is now $5K. That is over 6x. That is obscene.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:26 PM   #50
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With the average student loan debt load being roughly $26k and the average increase in lifetime earnings of a college degree vs. a highschool degree, I would argue that going to college is a pretty solid investment pending that one majors in something useful. Aka, not a soft major.
Those lifetime earnings are based off of college graduates two generations ago. College has changed since then. The value of a college degree now is not what it was 40 years ago, when only 15% of the country had one.

For a teenager heading into college today, what good does it do them to tell them that a college graduate 40 years ago made 1 million dollars (adjusted for inflation, of course) more than a high school graduate 40 years ago? Because that's what those lifetime earnings statistics are based on. It's a brave new world out there, and one thing is for sure, a bachelor's degree isn't nearly the distinguishing credential it used to be.

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Is it really such a good thing, however, to only promote degrees that result in guaranteed financial profit? Why should every degree be useful?
When choosing the wrong college and major can ruin your life (and it has for many unfortunate people out there), we have to tailor policy in a manner that makes college a cost effective opportunity in terms of dollars and cents. Personal growth is fine and dandy, but not on the taxpayer's dime.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:47 PM   #51
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Facebook, apple and others are outliers. They're exceptions. Not rules.



That's sad state of affairs. Should we accept that and only teach things that equal dollars? What if a kid wants to be a physicist, but all the jobs are in engineering? What if a person wants to become a linguist but opts for accounting because of the low benefit/high cost ratio?



Bleak world.
A physicist will find a job. A drama, liberal arts or women's studies major will not.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:52 PM   #52
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A physicist will find a job. A drama, liberal arts or women's studies major will not.
Bold general statements like that illustrate more about how little you know, but whatever.

I'm simply stating that if you base everything on ROI and profit, the college landscape will become very bleak.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:12 PM   #53
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I find that baffling. What does a secretary do, for example, that requires a bachelor's degree?
Companies in general want higher educated folks?
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:15 PM   #54
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I was lucky enough to go to a great school and come out with only $10K in debt. I'm looking at going back to get my masters (either MBA or MS in applied financial economics) and it's definite sticker shock. $1000/credit hour

My employer will pay for $5900 per year which is barely a dent I feel like.
My employer will cover my MBA or any educational costs in full. Fully intend to get my MBA soon.
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"They". Again with this idea that white people are a singular organism with a single will.

Individuals make choices and take actions. Sometimes their race informs their choices and actions, sometimes it does not.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:16 PM   #55
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Those lifetime earnings are based off of college graduates two generations ago. College has changed since then. The value of a college degree now is not what it was 40 years ago, when only 15% of the country had one.

For a teenager heading into college today, what good does it do them to tell them that a college graduate 40 years ago made 1 million dollars (adjusted for inflation, of course) more than a high school graduate 40 years ago? Because that's what those lifetime earnings statistics are based on. It's a brave new world out there, and one thing is for sure, a bachelor's degree isn't nearly the distinguishing credential it used to be.

Fair points. I'm still of the opinion that given the correct major, and drive (which many do NOT have) college is the right course. These are current statistics:



I think those numbers make a degree worth it, as long as you're not exiting the system with 6 figure debt.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:24 PM   #56
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What does everyone think? I like most of the bolded headline ideas EXCEPT for the last one. If these kids/parents decided to take out that amount of debt, they should be responsible for it just like any other loan program. The "pay as you earn" idea removes the burden from those taking out the loan....they should think about what the product is of that amount of debt.
I disagree to a certain extent.

For all intents and purposes, college is a nearly necessary thing that has to be done to succeed. Yes, there are plenty of pockets of people who started their own business or hit it real big on the stock market, or are just good salesmen in general and didn't need college. But for basically most other people, you've gotta go to it.

There are certain colleges that are excellent for certain majors, but they cost more because they're aware of the services that they provide for those majors. It would be unwise to not try and go to the best college for what you aspire to do.

Now, where I do agree with you is when people choose to do something that doesn't add much value. For example, someone who decides to get a degree in art history didn't make a wise investment, and they probably won't be sitting there making much of a return on it. In order to succeed in today's world, one must seriously look into a STEM major. There's really no way around it at this point. The world runs on science and math - computers have taken over, and people need programmers and people who are good at math to keep all of this stuff running. Like yesterday when the stock market halted - on a day-to-day basis, there are tons and tons of programmers, computer engineers, and IT people making sure everything is running and in order. And when it isn't running, they're the ones fixing it, just like yesterday.

Engineers, math people, computer people, and programmers are those who are going to be more likely to succeed in today's society. In order to get there, you must go to college, and in many cases, you must at least get a master's...but it is very possible to get a master's or PhD through work-study programs, fellowships and grants.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #57
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Fair points. I'm still of the opinion that given the correct major, and drive (which many do NOT have) college is the right course. These are current statistics:



I think those numbers make a degree worth it, as long as you're not exiting the system with 6 figure debt.
So college is overpriced and barely worth it, but without it you're really fvcked. Now what? Doesn't this say something about the general state of things in the country? Now we only want people with the "right" degrees and everyone else is wasting their time, but even those are falling behind in the cost-to-benefit analyses.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #58
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Re: Article & Discussion: Obama Takes on the College Cartel

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Fair points. I'm still of the opinion that given the correct major, and drive (which many do NOT have) college is the right course. These are current statistics:



I think those numbers make a degree worth it, as long as you're not exiting the system with 6 figure debt.
So what does that mean if my weekly earnings are higher than a professional degree yet I only completed high school?

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Old 08-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #59
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A higher ed degree may not be a sure fire guarantee of life success (financial and/or otherwise), but it sure does tip the odds greatly in your favor.

That all said, I do think there are huge affordability problems with higher education these days and that higher ed costs have far outpaced inflation. Does simply supply and demand play a part? Undoubtedly. Is it the whole explanation? Very doubtful.

In any case, in general, higher education is still a great investment, both personally and societally and should be encouraged and supported both by individual endeavor and by our society that benefits so greatly.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:27 PM   #60
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In order to succeed in today's world, one must seriously look into a STEM major. There's really no way around it at this point.
We'll all be surrounded by engineers and IT guys. The horror!

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Engineers, math people, computer people, and programmers are those who are going to be more likely to succeed in today's society.
Basically, people who are taught to work based on formulas. Oy vey!
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