E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > The Tire Rack's Tire & Wheel Forum

The Tire Rack's Tire & Wheel Forum
Use this forum to discuss anything in relation to wheels to tires to offsets.
Sponsored by The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 08-25-2013, 12:09 PM   #1
lilbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SC, 29708
Posts: 373
My Ride: 01 330ci Step
Send a message via Yahoo to lilbimmer Send a message via Skype™ to lilbimmer
Should I stay staggered?

My car came with the staggered 235/35/19f & 265/30/19r installed and have had it that way since 2005. With the amount of tires I have been changing recently due to damage I am reconsidering what I put on the rears. Although I am not sure if there is any rubbing going on, the damages are always on the inside. The fit is really tight back there.

Should I remain staggered? Maybe drop a size or two (255/30 or 245/30)/ Or should I just do 235/35 all around? I think my wheels are 9.5 to accommodate the 265s. What will fit on them properly and still give me an aggressive look?

Thanks
__________________
"sim simma, who gat di keys to mi bimma" - beenie man

lilbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 08-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #2
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 17,136
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
well it sounds like your camber is more the reason for inside tire wear. are you lowered a lot? If so adjustable camber arms in rear might help some, along with an alignment. But...the alignment might be set aggressive to allow those big tires to fit without rubbing?? and we have a bit more camber set for sportier handling anyway.
with the 19s on a 330 I can guess it's aftermarket. and your wheels are likely staggered not just tires. so you're not going square set-up by changing tire size alone. on the rear you can go 255, depending on tire brand it's right about where it should be and not quite stretched looking yet on 9.5 wheels. 255 also still looks aggressive but 245 won't imho.
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAVI - BMWPERF CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC BRKLINES, TRANS, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
Mcbridges11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 145
My Ride: 03 325i, 03 540i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex323Ci View Post
well it sounds like your camber is more the reason for inside tire wear. are you lowered a lot? If so adjustable camber arms in rear might help some, along with an alignment. But...the alignment might be set aggressive to allow those big tires to fit without rubbing?? and we have a bit more camber set for sportier handling anyway.
with the 19s on a 330 I can guess it's aftermarket. and your wheels are likely staggered not just tires. so you're not going square set-up by changing tire size alone. on the rear you can go 255, depending on tire brand it's right about where it should be and not quite stretched looking yet on 9.5 wheels. 255 also still looks aggressive but 245 won't imho.
^def the camber-I ran the same setup ( on m6 rims) you will go through so many tires
Mcbridges11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 01:03 PM   #4
Cavi Mike
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,313
My Ride: 2000 328Ci
Send a message via AIM to Cavi Mike Send a message via MSN to Cavi Mike Send a message via Yahoo to Cavi Mike
If you want to save tires and you don't care so much about the handling, you have to find an alignment shop that's willing to do custom specs and will set your camber near 0. That or you need to learn to do your alignment yourself.
Cavi Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 01:14 PM   #5
Mango
A full five stars, son
 
Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,807
My Ride: M54B30
First of all, the wheels you are "running" are too big. They are likely generic cheap showoff wheels at that size of 19" (words in italics are very important)

Second, if you run "0" camber as the above poster suggested, you do not care about handling. That is also potentially dangerous depending on what your relative camber is up front.

Third, it is a common misconception that negative camber causes excess inner tire wear. In a real-world situation, camber PLUS negative or positive toe causes inner tire wear. Since a stock BMW usually includes both, inner tire wear is usually normal. What you want to do is zero out your toe. That will cut your inner tire wear.

Last, you are assuming your rear end is maintained. It's likely not. There's roughly 14 pieces back there that can go bad and cause excess inner tire wear.

Consider these all Professional Mango Top Tips you won't see anywhere else on the web typed up and gathered quite like this.
__________________
A lifetime free of problems if you follow my guides
Cooling | Maintenance | Suspension | Vacuum | Supreme Reliability | Details

OVER A MILLION VIEWS
Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #6
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 17,136
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango View Post
Third, it is a common misconception that negative camber causes excess inner tire wear. In a real-world situation, camber PLUS negative or positive toe causes inner tire wear. Since a stock BMW usually includes both, inner tire wear is usually normal. What you want to do is zero out your toe. That will cut your inner tire wear.
Last, you are assuming your rear end is maintained. It's likely not. There's roughly 14 pieces back there that can go bad and cause excess inner tire wear.
camber be it negative and the toe being "zero" will still cause the inner tire to wear on the rear more. This is generally accepted in BMW circles and most performance car circles. But an excellent point about not forgetting about the toe settings. which can be overlooked by a poor alignment shop.
Also another good point on the rear bushings back there that can affect tire to road specs.
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAVI - BMWPERF CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC BRKLINES, TRANS, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #7
Cavi Mike
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,313
My Ride: 2000 328Ci
Send a message via AIM to Cavi Mike Send a message via MSN to Cavi Mike Send a message via Yahoo to Cavi Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango View Post
Second, if you run "0" camber as the above poster suggested, you do not care about handling. That is also potentially dangerous depending on what your relative camber is up front.
People really need to stop with this crap about something being "dangerous." There is nothing "dangerous" about running 0 camber. It's like saying driving a Camry is dangerous because it doesn't handle as well as a BMW.

Seriously dude. Shut up.


And Mango is not a professional. Maybe a professional narcissist.

Last edited by Cavi Mike; 08-25-2013 at 01:56 PM.
Cavi Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:01 PM   #8
Leezy321
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 270
My Ride: 2001 bmw 325i
Should I stay staggered?

How "excessive" is your tire wear? One of the common things I saw when working on BMWs is they eat through tires more so than other cars. Every time a BMW came into the shop for new tires the inside was always worn out before the rest of the tires.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Leezy321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:36 PM   #9
lilbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SC, 29708
Posts: 373
My Ride: 01 330ci Step
Send a message via Yahoo to lilbimmer Send a message via Skype™ to lilbimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leezy321 View Post
How "excessive" is your tire wear? One of the common things I saw when working on BMWs is they eat through tires more so than other cars. Every time a BMW came into the shop for new tires the inside was always worn out before the rest of the tires.\
Excessive enough that there is damage (rips) and looking to replace the tire(s) once again.

So what I am hearing so far....my options are:
1. Check Camber and set to "0" if needed
2. Check alignment and make sure "toe" is "square"
With the above I should still be fine with 265s, but I will lose some handling

Only Alex323 has mentioned possibly going down a size in tire. I don't know all the details about my car being lowered although it seems it is. Any other suggestions before I start forking out money to replace the tire?

EDIT: Do the shops that change these tires able to make the camber/alignment adjustments?
__________________
"sim simma, who gat di keys to mi bimma" - beenie man


Last edited by lilbimmer; 08-25-2013 at 02:40 PM.
lilbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 04:40 PM   #10
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 17,136
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
camber is set on bmws a little more for handling. you know how the top of the tires point a little inward and bottom (footprint) down more.



this is so the car when turning and weight pushing to the outside (opposite direction of turn-in) gets a flat footprint of the tire to the ground and not so that it rolls over on itself with less tire. so it's better for handling but allows more of the inside of the tire to have contact on the road and thus wears more when straight line.

thing is most wear is such that over time even though the insides have worn more than the rest of the tire, even if tire were flat it would have worn down close enough to the same amount but evenly. now the wider the more uneven it will wear with negative camber seeing it contacts the road first and most often than other parts of the tires "footprint/tread".
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAVI - BMWPERF CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC BRKLINES, TRANS, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #11
jdstrickland
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 6,949
My Ride: '94 325iC & '00 323i
Staggered isn't a problem, but those 19s are very aggressive.

Find what your car comes with from the factory, then go from there. I think your car takes an 18 at most, and perhaps an 8.5-inch wide one at that. Other considerations are the offset spec, also called ET. If you have a low ET and a wide wheel, then you will need excess camber to take care of the rubbing issues that surely come to the surface. The excess camber will directly cause inside shoulder wear.

If your car is lowered, then the camber will be negatively affected and inside shoulder wear will be very pronounced.
jdstrickland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 04:50 PM   #12
jdstrickland
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 6,949
My Ride: '94 325iC & '00 323i
Camber is not adjustable. When the car is lowered, this leads to negative camber. There is a camber kit for the E36 to cure excess negative camber, but I don't if there is a camber kit for the E46. The rear camber can be adjusted, but the front cannot. That is, the rear camber has an adjustment link from the factory, the front does not.

I'm not sure, but my instinct is that a 265 is way too much tire for an E46.
jdstrickland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 08:42 PM   #13
IxNay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New England //M Posts: 56,959
Posts: 1,252
My Ride: 2000 328Ci 5sp SP
Agree with others: car is lowered, tires too big (18 is max) = more wear on inside of tires.
__________________
IxNay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 09:07 PM   #14
lszlszx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Socal
Posts: 4,648
My Ride: 328i, XC70
Huge wheels like that affect just about every aspect of performance negatively. Staggered set up looks great, but it's not as practical, you can't rotate the wheels.
__________________
lszlszx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 09:10 PM   #15
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,718
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
You should just go square, staggered is annoying IMO. Makes buying tires more complicated and expensive, and you can't rotate them. I wish mine weren't staggered.
__________________
Zell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 07:57 PM   #16
lilbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SC, 29708
Posts: 373
My Ride: 01 330ci Step
Send a message via Yahoo to lilbimmer Send a message via Skype™ to lilbimmer
So...the general consensus is to just go square. Which means I cannot use my current wheels that my 265s are on b/c they will be too wide for 235s, right? Which also means now I have to consider both new wheels and tires! actually, I do have extra wheels in both sizes! Hmmmmm...decisions!
__________________
"sim simma, who gat di keys to mi bimma" - beenie man

lilbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 08:17 PM   #17
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,718
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbimmer View Post
So...the general consensus is to just go square. Which means I cannot use my current wheels that my 265s are on b/c they will be too wide for 235s, right? Which also means now I have to consider both new wheels and tires! actually, I do have extra wheels in both sizes! Hmmmmm...decisions!
You can get great square 18s for good prices.

http://www.modbargains.com/BMW-E46-Wheels.htm

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E46-330.../Alzor_Wheels/

Peruse to your heart's desire.
__________________
Zell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 03:29 AM   #18
Alex323Ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach -Surf City USA
Posts: 17,136
My Ride: M3 & 323Ci (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbimmer View Post
So...the general consensus is to just go square. Which means I cannot use my current wheels that my 265s are on b/c they will be too wide for 235s, right? Which also means now I have to consider both new wheels and tires! actually,
No it's not.
__________________
OE CSL WHEELS - OE CSL BRAKES - OE AUTOFLD MIRRORS - CSL TRUNK - CSL DIFFUSER - AA TUNE - AA PULLEYS - AS 40% SSK - BILSTEIN PSS9s
CF CSL LIP - NAVI - BMWPERF CF STRUT BAR - BMW GROUP N MNTS - GRUPPE M CF INTAKE - SUPERSPRINT - UUC BRKLINES, TRANS, RTABs - H&R SWAYS - 4.10 M-SPORT DIFF
Alex323Ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:50 AM   #19
Leezy321
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 270
My Ride: 2001 bmw 325i
Should I stay staggered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbimmer View Post
So...the general consensus is to just go square. Which means I cannot use my current wheels that my 265s are on b/c they will be too wide for 235s, right? Which also means now I have to consider both new wheels and tires! actually, I do have extra wheels in both sizes! Hmmmmm...decisions!
1 post out of 18 suggested going square... Hardly the general consensus.... /facepalm


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Leezy321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 07:44 AM   #20
JohnBlaze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 7,153
My Ride: Black Sunshine
I prefer staggered
__________________
JohnBlaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use