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Suspension & Braking Forum by BimmerWorld
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:58 PM   #21
hanna
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

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lol no. stock struts/shocks do not affect ride height in the slightest.
I probably phrased it wrong then, but the clearance between the fender and tire is increased . The gap that is about an inch wider with these struts and their rods are longer compared to stock Sachs, it's easy to put coil springs on them actually, because the center rods are so high. Not sure if its called ride height or not.


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Old 08-29-2013, 03:38 AM   #22
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

Ordered, definitely excited to finally have a proper setup. I don't care to lower my 325i, I will just invest in a quality coil over when I get an m3 down the road. As for now I just want to bring my car close back to stock or a little better.


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Old 08-29-2013, 04:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
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I probably phrased it wrong then, but the clearance between the fender and tire is increased . The gap that is about an inch wider with these struts and their rods are longer compared to stock Sachs, it's easy to put coil springs on them actually, because the center rods are so high. Not sure if its called ride height or not.
nah, these will not raise the car. the springs support the car and it's weight for the most part.

these are however longer travel in the piston rod for a tall spring. personally i wouldn't go this route.
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:28 AM   #24
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Bilstein Sport Shocks w/ H&R Sport Springs isn't a bad combo. I recently put this on my ZHP and an quite happy.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:07 AM   #25
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

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nah, these will not raise the car. the springs support the car and it's weight for the most part.

these are however longer travel in the piston rod for a tall spring. personally i wouldn't go this route.
Alex, I have this exact kit with my old non sport springs. Compared to the old stock non sport struts the front end sits higher 0.5"-0.7". I'm speaking from personal experience. Everything is installed correctly with the help of a friend (professional mechanic ).
So same springs, different struts, raised front.


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Old 08-29-2013, 08:53 AM   #26
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That's probably due to worn out old struts and weak/old springs. I would imagine that it has simply raised the car slightly closer to original ride height. Also .5" is kinda hard to measure accurately
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:38 AM   #27
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Alex, I have this exact kit with my old non sport springs. Compared to the old stock non sport struts the front end sits higher 0.5"-0.7". I'm speaking from personal experience. Everything is installed correctly with the help of a friend (professional mechanic ).
So same springs, different struts, raised front.


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so now it's half an inch? you said an inch before. make up your mind

keep in mind you can easily (relative to the car's weight) push down a brand new strut using your bare hands. what do you think the weight of the car does to it? stock replacement struts do not affect ride height.
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:52 AM   #28
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Bilstein Sport Shocks w/ H&R Sport Springs isn't a bad combo. I recently put this on my ZHP and an quite happy.

I have the Bilstein HD shocks and H&R race springs on my E36 4dr , VERY tight. It would wake my baby up when I hit any bump in the road. I liked it, but not my 1 year old. lol

Im going with what Whammy has on my E46 vert.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:59 AM   #29
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

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so now it's half an inch? you said an inch before. make up your mind

keep in mind you can easily (relative to the car's weight) push down a brand new strut using your bare hands. what do you think the weight of the car does to it? stock replacement struts do not affect ride height.
They are not stock replacement struts, stock replacement struts are Sachs, these are Bilstine Touring, their piston rods are longer compared to stock Sachs. And these struts do affect ride height. How much? Between half inch to an inch. They were installed awhile ago, so do not remember for sure. I like them, huge difference.




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Old 08-29-2013, 11:17 AM   #30
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They are not stock replacement struts, stock replacement struts are Sachs, these are Bilstine Touring, their piston rods are longer compared to stock Sachs. And these struts do affect ride height. How much? Between half inch to an inch. They were installed awhile ago, so do not remember for sure. I like them, huge difference.




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by stock replacement, i mean stock design (i.e., not mono-tube high-pressure) you obviously don't know what you are talking about. you either measured wrong, measured when the car was dropped down, or just plain are mistaken.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #31
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by stock replacement, i mean stock design (i.e., not mono-tube high-pressure) you obviously don't know what you are talking about. you either measured wrong, measured when the car was dropped down, or just plain are mistaken.
Then I'm not the only one who is wrong. There are posts by other members confirming the same thing. Do not have time to search for them right now.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:56 PM   #32
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

Here you go, this person is also wrong and does not know what he is talking about or may be just mistaken or bad with a measuring tape:

2000 323i, I replaced my OEM struts with the Bilstein "OEM equivalent" struts. Now the front end sits about 1/2" higher than it used to. It is visible and obvious, at least to me. Everything is installed correctly, and springs are properly positioned on the perches.

I took a new Bilstein same as what is on my car to the dealer to compare it to the factory unit. Dimensionally it appears the same. Differences are that the shoulder on the lower end that seats inside the knuckle is not as sharply defined, but it appears to be in the right place. And, the rod on the Bilstein runs all the way out by itself, whereas on the OE unit, it does not. So when the the two are side by side, the rod is fully extended on the Bilstein, and on the OE is is not sticking out as far, maybe 1.5" less. I think the OE struts are not gas charged.

Anybody else run across this when installing aftermarket struts? I don't like the look at all. I've had them on the car for 25K miles, and they still sit high.


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Old 08-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #33
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...5#post15050445


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Old 08-29-2013, 02:41 PM   #34
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Then I'm not the only one who is wrong. There are posts by other members confirming the same thing. Do not have time to search for them right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanna View Post
Here you go, this person is also wrong and does not know what he is talking about or may be just mistaken or bad with a measuring tape:

2000 323i, I replaced my OEM struts with the Bilstein "OEM equivalent" struts. Now the front end sits about 1/2" higher than it used to. It is visible and obvious, at least to me. Everything is installed correctly, and springs are properly positioned on the perches.

I took a new Bilstein same as what is on my car to the dealer to compare it to the factory unit. Dimensionally it appears the same. Differences are that the shoulder on the lower end that seats inside the knuckle is not as sharply defined, but it appears to be in the right place. And, the rod on the Bilstein runs all the way out by itself, whereas on the OE unit, it does not. So when the the two are side by side, the rod is fully extended on the Bilstein, and on the OE is is not sticking out as far, maybe 1.5" less. I think the OE struts are not gas charged.

Anybody else run across this when installing aftermarket struts? I don't like the look at all. I've had them on the car for 25K miles, and they still sit high.


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You are absolutely wrong. You take your car to a mechanic. Not sure why you feel you're qualified to have an opinion on anything technical.

If we are talking high-pressure units, then maybe you have a point--and it would only be a coincidence as you clearly do not possess basic car knowledge.

But my statement stands: stock struts/shocks do not affect ride height. This goes for stock replacements that possess the same or similar internal design.

This is extremely common knowledge. Springs support the vehicle's weight. Struts/shocks do not. Once struts/shocks are at their static position, they are design to control spring/wheel oscillation.

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/s...rber_myths.cfm
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:43 PM   #35
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And by the way, half of the people on this forum install junk on their cars. I'd take any opinion or assessments you may have heard that goes against basic and common knowledge with a grain of salt.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:00 PM   #36
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Good buy for shocks and struts??

Now listen very carefully. Because I will be 100% clear here. You are absolutely, positively wrong in this particular debate. We are discussing Bilstein Touring struts and front height of the ride. These struts make the front higher. Period. I have them. That's how I know. Other people have them and know this.

How idiotically stubborn one must be to deny a fact!!

I'm not talking about struts, springs and other suspension components in general. I'm talking about these specific struts.

Your are ignorant as hell. Get the hell out of here now.


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Old 08-29-2013, 05:03 PM   #37
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Now listen very carefully. Because I will be 100% clear here. You are absolutely, positively wrong in this particular debate. We are discussing Bilstein Touring struts and front height of the ride. These struts make the front higher. Period. I have them. That's how I know. Other people have them and know this.

How idiotically stubborn one must be to deny a fact!!

I'm not talking about struts, springs and other suspension components in general. I'm talking about these specific struts.

Your are ignorant as hell. Get the hell out of here now.


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lol
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Old 08-29-2013, 06:28 PM   #38
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lol
Btw:-) did I tell you to get out of here? I was just kidding :-) I'm not getting you off the hook that easy :-)
I will embarrass you one more time. In this thread (I totally forgot about it, LOL), the guy named MarkT mentions the raised front height after installing Bilstein Touring. Link:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=934509

He must also be technically incompetent just like all those people who install junk on their cars and do not know what they are talking about.

And another review from bimmerforums:
By member "520 driver"

"Front end ride height too high.


I have been steadily trying to get all the mechanicals fixed before I make a determination on ride height. Just about everything is new in the suspension over the last two years. I think the only parts that I didn't change are the rear trailing arm bushings and I don't think they will cause any change in ride height. They look okay. I may change them and correct camber but it's the last thing I do.
I went to Bilstein Touring Struts for a comfortable daily driver. The gas charged struts lift about 75 lbs at each corner they typically raise the ride height using the same spring. I have experienced this before but it was good because the car sat too low.
It appears that the rear is sitting too low. A couple of mechanics said so but I figured I would change the rear sub frame bushing first. But it is not the rear, it is the front.
Bently Manual says 20.5" from the bottom lip of the rim to the fender. The rears are 21" which is fine with me. The front height measures 23.5". I would like it to match the rear at 21". I did not change the front springs, they are stock. I did not note the ride height before the strut/shock change so I can't compare but since the rear seems to sit so low I did change the rear springs (with HD) but the ride height was the same for both springs. I added a hundred pounds of audio gear back there anyway.
How do I correct ride height when I used the stock spring? I can't imagine going back to BMW and asking for a spring to correct the ride height, especially when using a "aftermarket" shock. It seems the only answer is to cut the springs. If I buy a lowering spring I am concerned that I will have to cut them too and the spring rates are good as-is. Any idea how much to cut off a coil to lose 2.5"?"

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Old 08-29-2013, 11:04 PM   #39
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Bilstein dampers are gas charged at an extremely high pressure. I have heard of people running Bilstein sport dampers and experiencing a raised ride height for as long as 25,000 in some extreme cases. Probably correlates to RSMs failing faster when installed with Bilstein dampers as well. Otherwise, dampers have absolutely 0 influence on the ride height of a given vehicle. All quality dampers are designed to the same standards and to keep the car within factory spec.
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Old 09-07-2013, 05:20 PM   #40
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I have been steadily trying to get all the mechanicals fixed before I make a determination on ride height. Just about everything is new in the suspension over the last two years. I think the only parts that I didn’t change are the rear trailing arm bushings and I don’t think they will cause any change in ride height. They look okay. I may change them and correct camber but it’s the last thing I do.
I went to Bilstein Touring Struts for a comfortable daily driver. The gas charged struts lift about 75 lbs at each corner they typically raise the ride height using the same spring. I have experienced this before but it was good because the car sat too low.
It appears that the rear is sitting too low. A couple of mechanics said so but I figured I would change the rear sub frame bushing first. But it is not the rear, it is the front.
Bently Manual says 20.5” from the bottom lip of the rim to the fender. The rears are 21” which is fine with me. The front height measures 23.5”. I would like it to match the rear at 21”. I did not change the front springs, they are stock. I did not note the ride height before the strut/shock change so I can’t compare but since the rear seems to sit so low I did change the rear springs (with HD) but the ride height was the same for both springs. I added a hundred pounds of audio gear back there anyway.
How do I correct ride height when I used the stock spring? I can’t imagine going back to BMW and asking for a spring to correct the ride height, especially when using a “aftermarket” shock. It seems the only answer is to cut the springs. If I buy a lowering spring I am concerned that I will have to cut them too and the spring rates are good as-is. Any idea how much to cut off a coil to lose 2.5”?"
well there are only really two ways i can see for the strut causing the front to be higher(when no other parts changed).
1) the spring perch on the Bilstein Tourings are higher up on the strut, thus raising the spring.
2) the bottom lip where the strut housing sits is lower. thus the overall strut housing sits up higher since it bottoms out in the knuckle earlier.

these are possible, but Bilstein would be a brand i would not expect any variance in specs.
now a possible way it sits higher (Bilstein not the reason) is if the spring isn't resting correctly. and/or the rear sits lower now, this would cause the front to go up. one could buy the thicker spring pads for the rear or stack thicker ones on. this would raise the rear and the front would come down from "porpoising".
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