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Old 08-30-2013, 08:32 AM   #1
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Red face Nearly 20% Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Sequestration

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WASHINGTON -- New data compiled by a coalition of top scientific and medical research groups show that a large majority of scientists are receiving less federal help than they were three years ago, despite spending far more time writing grants in search of it. Nearly one-fifth of scientists are considering going overseas to continue their research because of the poor funding climate in America.

The study, which was spearheaded by the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (ASBMB) and will be formally released next week, is the latest to highlight the extent to which years of stagnant or declining budgets, made worse by sequestration, have damaged the world of science.

More than 3,700 scientists from all 50 states participated in the study, offering online responses in June and July 2013. They offered sobering assessments of the state of their profession. Eighty percent said they were spending more of their time writing grants now than in 2010, while 67 percent said they were receiving less grant money now than they were back then. Only two percent of respondents said they had received money from their employers -- predominantly academic institutions -- to make up for the loss of federal funds.

The drying up of resources has had a damaging effect on the research being conducted, forcing scientists to curtail their projects or trim their staffs.

According to the survey, 68 percent of respondents said they do not have the funds to expand their research operations; 55 percent said they have a colleague who has lost a job or expects to soon; and 18 percent of respondents said they were considering continuing their careers in another country. -- Source
I don't understand why were doing everything in our power to alienate a community that drives discovery and innovation. Are we shooting ourselves in the foot or is this a necessary evil for the time being?
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:44 AM   #2
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thanks obama.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:01 AM   #3
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:02 AM   #4
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Nearly 20% Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Sequestrati

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Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
I don't understand why were doing everything in our power to alienate a community that drives discovery and innovation. Are we shooting ourselves in the foot or is this a necessary evil for the time being?
Why be a world power and a leader when you can just be equal. Equality is key my friends

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:03 AM   #5
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Faith>Science
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:20 AM   #6
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:36 AM   #7
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Nearly 20% Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Sequestrati

99% of scientists know that they won't discover anything new and just pretend to be researching so the government/sponsor pays them. I think the government and sponsors are slowly seeing that they are wasting their time. Also who needs science, it just leads to evil. Jesus is the answer to life.


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Old 09-04-2013, 12:49 AM   #8
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I don't understand why were doing everything in our power to alienate a community that drives discovery and innovation. Are we shooting ourselves in the foot or is this a necessary evil for the time being?
There are three points I want to make here:

1. I'd rather ease immigration restrictions than increase Federal research funding. Obviously it's not an either/or choice, but right now we have to make priorities with what to do with the Federal government's time and money. Deregulating the immigration process would be a much bigger boon the economy than increased Federal grant money.

2. Where are these scientists gonna go? In case you haven't noticed, every Western government (or every government in general, really) is going through hard times. The party has even slowed down in Canada. There is nobody other country out there that could offer scientists a significantly better deal than what they're getting in the US.

3. How many scientists/researchers do we need, really? When it comes to research, I really don't believe more is better. Groundbreaking research tends to come in fits and starts, often spearheaded by one or two brilliant scientists and researchers. There's a lot of extraneous research out there. And while I do realize that the scientific process is strengthened when multiple researchers can independently verify results, there's definitely diminishing marginal utility there.
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:17 AM   #9
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Nearly 20% Of Scientists Contemplate Moving Overseas Due In Part To Sequestrati

It feels like science research for government is going in the wrong direction. It used to be about medicine and fir the good of people but now it's about brain control, weapons, and other things that cause harm to people like the real haarp station in Alaska not their model one.


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Old 09-04-2013, 08:02 AM   #10
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Researchers did research on how they are losing funding for research LOL.

These scientists are not immune to the economy. I would rather see some money spent elsewhere.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:51 AM   #11
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There are three points I want to make here:

1. I'd rather ease immigration restrictions than increase Federal research funding. Obviously it's not an either/or choice, but right now we have to make priorities with what to do with the Federal government's time and money. Deregulating the immigration process would be a much bigger boon the economy than increased Federal grant money.
Innovation is what drives business, not a company's ability to hire cheap laborers. If you're referencing H-1 visas then I could see the benefits.


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2. Where are these scientists gonna go? In case you haven't noticed, every Western government (or every government in general, really) is going through hard times. The party has even slowed down in Canada. There is nobody other country out there that could offer scientists a significantly better deal than what they're getting in the US.
The United States fights for the best. What makes you think other countries won't do the same to our top talent?

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3. How many scientists/researchers do we need, really? When it comes to research, I really don't believe more is better. Groundbreaking research tends to come in fits and starts, often spearheaded by one or two brilliant scientists and researchers. There's a lot of extraneous research out there. And while I do realize that the scientific process is strengthened when multiple researchers can independently verify results, there's definitely diminishing marginal utility there.
Research does not have to be groundbreaking. If it contributes to the greater good in any capacity whether through tangible results or the transfer of knowledge then it's worth having. Even failed research is seen as beneficial to a degree if there are those who learn from it and design their research to avoid such pitfalls.

STEM is what drives economies.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:53 AM   #12
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Researchers did research on how they are losing funding for research LOL.

These scientists are not immune to the economy. I would rather see some money spent elsewhere.
You're right. When times are tough certain cutbacks do need to be made. But funding for research should not be at the top of the list given the billions of wasteful spending we allow each and every year.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:17 AM   #13
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Innovation is what drives business, not a company's ability to hire cheap laborers. If you're referencing H-1 visas then I could see the benefits.
I'd eliminate the H-1B visa. It's too restrictive and it gives too many advantages to employers. Anybody who has a tertiary degree from an American university should be eligible to apply for an immigrant visa or permanent residency and not have to rely on a corporation to do it for them.

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The United States fights for the best. What makes you think other countries won't do the same to our top talent?
Who says that the 20% contemplating a move overseas are the best? Maybe they're the worst, which is why they're having so much trouble attracting grants. We don't know for sure.

Other countries will fight for top talent. But there's nothing here that suggests top talent is facing trouble attracting research funding. Only that there is a general problem.

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Research does not have to be groundbreaking. If it contributes to the greater good in any capacity whether through tangible results or the transfer of knowledge then it's worth having. Even failed research is seen as beneficial to a degree if there are those who learn from it and design their research to avoid such pitfalls.

STEM is what drives economies.
That kind of research is more likely to be done in an in-house firm than in a Federally funded grant. In which case, there is plenty of money to be had.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:54 AM   #14
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I'd eliminate the H-1B visa. It's too restrictive and it gives too many advantages to employers. Anybody who has a tertiary degree from an American university should be eligible to apply for an immigrant visa or permanent residency and not have to rely on a corporation to do it for them.
There are almost no advantages to an H-1B visa for the employer. Between the associated costs, prevailing wages and narrow window of opportunity before the cap is met.... it's anything but.


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Who says that the 20% contemplating a move overseas are the best? Maybe they're the worst, which is why they're having so much trouble attracting grants. We don't know for sure.

Other countries will fight for top talent. But there's nothing here that suggests top talent is facing trouble attracting research funding. Only that there is a general problem.
We all know what the Dark Ages did for human advancement. Reductio ad absurdum at it's finest, but I think it help illustrates the importance of well funded research.

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That kind of research is more likely to be done in an in-house firm than in a Federally funded grant. In which case, there is plenty of money to be had.
Private sector firms still file for grants.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:38 PM   #15
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3. How many scientists/researchers do we need, really? When it comes to research, I really don't believe more is better. Groundbreaking research tends to come in fits and starts, often spearheaded by one or two brilliant scientists and researchers. There's a lot of extraneous research out there. And while I do realize that the scientific process is strengthened when multiple researchers can independently verify results, there's definitely diminishing marginal utility there.
Spoken like somebody who has never participated in or started research and studies. You even stated "I believe"
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #16
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Faith>Science
how does faith cure disease and famine?
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #17
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how does faith cure disease and famine?
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:49 PM   #18
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You're right. When times are tough certain cutbacks do need to be made. But funding for research should not be at the top of the list given the billions of wasteful spending we allow each and every year.
I'm sure as we bounce back, so will the funding.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:02 PM   #19
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I'd be interested to see how the question about leaving the US was worded. It could be something as open-ended as "would you consider leaving the US if funding were available elsewhere that was not available in the US?" If that's what the question looked like, I'm surprised the number of positive responses was only 18 percent.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:06 PM   #20
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There are almost no advantages to an H-1B visa for the employer. Between the associated costs, prevailing wages and narrow window of opportunity before the cap is met.... it's anything but.
I never said there were any advantages for the employer. But for the person the visa is for, they are essentially bound to that employer until they've been here long enough so that they can file for either an immigrant visa or permanent residency. Eliminate the H-1B visa and introduce a new immigrant visa for highly skilled immigrants that doesn't have an employer requirement.

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We all know what the Dark Ages did for human advancement. Reductio ad absurdum at it's finest, but I think it help illustrates the importance of well funded research.
I don't follow your point.
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