E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Gun Talk

Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #1
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
AAR: EAG Tactical Carbine Operator Course, 19-21SEP13. Des Moines, IA

AAR EAG Tactical Carbine Operator Course
19-21 SEP 2013
Polk County Sheriffís Office Range
Des Moines, IA

WX
T1: 80ís and sunny until the major storm rolled through at the end. It was nice because it washed the bugs off the front of my car from my trip down the night before. A couple bugs looked like pterodactyls.
T2: 70ís, sunny and windy. Cold morning was nice
T3: 70ís and a light breeze, with another cool morning.

STUDENTS
This was a restricted LE/MIL only course, and there were 10 students consisting of 8 LE and 2 MIL guys. Everyone was on the ball and had a high level of proficiency. All the fellow cops were gunfighters and the sort of officers that I love working with. They are guys that you know will get the job done and win a fight no matter what. The MIL guys were squared away shooters who had a lot of experience under their belts, regardless of time in service. If they ever decide to leave the Army, I hope they consider LE because theyíd make some solid cops that I would be proud to have as partners.

INSTRUCTORS
Pat Rogers was in fine form and always on the ball with everything. He had Suzanne ďMuleskinnerĒ to help him out, and big thanks to her for helping to make things go round.

GEAR
Pistol: S&W M&P9 w/ Apex DCAEK and RAM upgrade, and Streamlight TLR-1S weaponlight.

Rifle 1: Frankengun with LaRue lower, VLTOR upper with Daniel Defense barrel and rail, PWS Triad flash hider. Optic was an Aimpoint CompM4s w/ LaRue mount and an Aimpoint 3x magnifier in LaRue mount. By the end of the course the rifle had around 9000rds down the pipe since I last cleaned it, and it still has never had a mechanical malfunction.

Rifle 2: 16Ē frankengun with Noveske Gen2 lower, BCM upper and BCM BCG, Daniel Defense LW barrel and DD MFR 12.0 tube. A BC 1.0 on the end of that. Topped it off with an Aimpoint T-1 w/ LaRue mount.


Ammo: I did the dropship option of ordering Magtech 5.56 through EAG and I was impressed with it. Aesthetically, the ammo is clean and has a much better appearance of quality than the Federal XM193 I normally shoot. In shooting the ammo, it was consistent and accurate (when I did my part). Iíve used Magtech in the past in both 5.56 and 7.62, as well as numerous pistol calibers. Iíve always been happy with it and never had issues, and I still continue to be happy with them.

Vest: Mayflower R&C Assault carrier w/ Mayflower and BlueForceGear pouches, SKD PIG hydration carrier and Source 2L bladder, and BFG Tourniquet Now! Holder with CAT tourniquet just in case.

Belt: VTAC Brokos w/ ITW FastMag pistol pouches, EMDOM-MM dump pouch, CTOMS Slimline IFAK and Safariland ALS holster.


TD1
We started out with the usual introductions and the same base information as with every other class. This included the safety brief and whatnot. Following this, we discussed when shots were taken, and how for us professional gunfighters, there is never just one shot taken unless itís a precision shot or you manage to have an ND. You canít depend on one single shot, nor can you depend on two. We discussed when and how we shoot, with a comparison of faster speed to slower speed to meet the engagement range. The skill of the shooter will affect this distance.

Pat discussed an incident where a cop was shot multiple times and shot the perp multiple times, and how it took continuing shots and a drive to win for the cop to survive and kill the POS. This included two head shots. This cemented home the understanding that a gunfight is not over until the bad guy decides itís over. Itís never on our own terms.

We started out zeroing at 50yds, and then moved in for shooting drills to do pairs, failure drills, NSRs and the lot. Throughout the morning it was obvious that all the shooters on the line had their wits about them and that everyone was on the same page for skill level and the desire to learn. Iíve been at a couple courses elsewhere in the past where there were students who were significantly behind the power curve, so the pace of the course was lower. In this particular course, all students were at or above the power curve.
I also managed to make Pat look like a bad instructor by doing an insufficient Push/Pull of my magazine. I went to pull the trigger and shot one, then pulled the trigger again and had a click. I went to do immediate action and there was no mag there. Then there was a leprechaun hand that reached out and grabbed my arm and I realized that the Hand of Rogers had located a visual aid for the benefit of the class. Sure enough, Pat called me out and did the Call of the Moosecock, which was certainly well-deserved on my part. It was even more deserved because I was inside 25yds and I neglected to just drop the rifle and transition to pistol.

Positional shooting was next, and we went through multiple positions. The major theme throughout the course was the reiteration that the kneeling position is one of the most unstable, and it certainly is one that I struggle to be consistent with. We kept hammering on kneeling positions throughout the three days.
From there it was turns and other skills that were the building blocks of the rest of the weekend. We ended with reconfirming BZO and then wrapping up before the storm hit.

On TD1, it became apparent that my shooting this year is not where I want it to be. Skills are perishable, and my lack of shooting in my off-time this year has hurt my skill level. I was no where near where I wanted to be, and I know that I have a lot of make-up to do now that ammo is becoming more available again.

We wrapped it up with dinner at a nearby restaurant, and it was a great time with some hilarity and great stories. Always one of my favorite things to do.

During shooting, the ejection port cover pin came loose, and I saw that the retaining clip that holds it in place was missing. I yanked the retaining clip off my backup rifle and put it on my primary. This is a benefit of always bringing a backup rifle, which I have always done and will always do.

TD2
The day started with reconfirming BZO, and then immediately getting into malfunction clearance. It started with immediate action, and the progressed to remedial action. Transition to sidearm was always the primary option inside 25yds, but outside we needed to keep our rifles up and running. Remedial action can either be complicated or simple, but a lot of it depends on how you think through it. A couple years ago Iíd have a spaz attack trying to do it. Now itís a matter of understanding that you have to think through what needs to be done and then just do it. Doing it by yourself in front of the class should not be a point of stress, because it shouldnít matter. Your goal is to do it because it needs to be done, not because youíre trying to break a land speed record and score style points. Itís because of this that I told myself that when I did it, I just need to use my brain and think through it. As I progress and continue to practice Iím sure I will speed up, but at least I was able to slow myself down to do it right the first time.

I mention all of that because it segues into a major point. I always say that I need to slow the hell down at the end of class, so before class I resolved that I would take more time to do things right. I managed to stick to this and run things slower than I normally do. My accuracy was not where I wanted it to be this week, but at least I worked to do as much as I could correctly the first time. Lessons from TD2 were that I needed to maintain that slower, deliberate intent and not attempt to speed up unnecessarily, simply for the sake of going faster.

Shooting on the move was a larger portion on this day, and it continues to be something that I need work in. Still, my decision to take things slower paid dividends by allowing my hits to be more consistent than they were in the past. My consistency is increasing, and now I just have to tie in the accuracy by tightening things up a bit.

My fellow shooters continued to be on the ball and rock solid, so we wound up getting a lot of trigger time. The final round count for the day was somewhere close to 600rds.

It also bears mentioning that I was awarded an oak leaf cluster for my Moosecock, which is placed proudly on my gear.

TD3
Another BZO was completed before class, and then we moved into a continuation of the skills weíd been working on. There was a lot of moving, which I has glad to keep doing. The more practice, the better. The main theme as you progress through training is that every skill you learned on the previous day(s) will be back, and combined with another skill. Multiple skills together make a skill set, and the ultimate result by the end of TD3 was that we were developing whole skill sets instead of just knowing individual skills. Itís nice to be able to make a standing failure drill, and itís nice to be able to walk with a gun, or turn with a gun. What ultimately matters for us professional gunfighters is that we need to be able to turn, identify a threat, advance and engage the threat and use whatever force is necessary. This is why, by the end of the training you are doing dynamic turns followed by shooting a failure drill or NSR on the move, but then transitioning to sidearm if you have a stoppage. In my world, individual skills mean nothing if they cannot be integrated into my operational environment. EAG makes sure that these skills become usable skill sets.

My shooting overall was not where I wanted it to be, but as much as I wanted it to be the gun, I know from zeroing that it can put down decent groups. It was ultimately me, and I know that I need to make the effort to pick up a gun everyday. When I work I generally have my hands on a gun daily, but when I work I do not. That needs to change, and it will.
I was shocked to learn I got the High Shooter award, so I will have to make a much more concerted effort now to retain and improve my skill to prove to myself that I earned it. More than anything, itís a motivation to myself to keep progressing and never be satisfied with where I am. I want to keep getting better.

By the end of TD3, we had close to 1600rds downrange. It was one of the highest round count courses Iíve had, but it certainly was not ballistic masturbation. The benefit of having all students on the same level is that you donít slow down. The pace remained fast, and everyone was quick to learn and assimilate. This made the course the most enjoyable one Iíve ever taken, because it was honestly so fluid and consistent.

Huge thanks to all that attended. Also, a huge thanks to Sgt Keith Romp who made things go so smooth. Heís a solid shooter and a great guy, and Iím honored to call him a friend.
Thanks also to all the companies that support EAG Tactical. I always am honored to support those that support what I do, and it means a lot to know people care about helping us to be the best students and professionals that we can be.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #2
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport


__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 01:22 PM   #3
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
From Pat Rogers:

Quote:
EAG conducted a Carbine Operators Course at the Des Moines IA Police Range, 19-21Sep2013.
This was a Restricted Class, Police/ Mil only.
This was our first class in IA, and the range, was clean, well laid out and free of the stupidity that sometimes is part and parcel of the gov ranges.
Keith Romp was our host and did a terrific job in getting this class on the schedule.


WX
T1
Started out overcast and 70’s, then hot and sunny, 87.
And then the storm came. High wind, rain, hail t-storms, trees down, power out and other assorted fun stuff.
Temp dropped 28 degrees in a few minutes.
We finished one minute before it hit…

T2
Cool (44) in the AM, warming up to 73 and clear in the PM

T3
Cool (48 in the AM) warming up to 75 in the PM

Guns and Gear

There were no gear, gun, magazine or ammo issues worth noting.

Camelbak supports us by providing a tube of Camelkrak for each student. Sly devils that Camelbak company…
The Elixer provides for electrolyte replacement, but in doing so, it also tastes good. That means more people are drinking it which means less hydration problems at class.
That used to be an issue, but just as the quality of guns, optics and magazines have become less of an issue over the years, so has dehydration.

One shooter brought his iron sighted duty gun. He was an exceptional shooter and was able to hang.

We brought #125 to class. This gun now has 2625 rds downrange, and it looks (and feels) really good.

This was a great class in every respect. The students were professionals, had good skill sets to begin with, paid attention and performed every drill with great enthusiasm.
And, we had a buttload of fun.

Of course, we also had a Blue Falcon moment.
After class on T2, we once more drove down to Montana Mike’s for chow. One student ( from Davenport cough cough) ordered a burger. His seating partner ordered an entrťe.
The waitress put down a salad between the two. While others engaged on joyful repartee, the stealthy Bill slowly moved the salad towards his silverware.
Once the bowl of fresh greens was directly in front of him, Bill cautiously took little pieces into his mouth, moving to using two (2) forks to more rapidly consume the bowl of goodness..
Only after the salad was consumed did others become aware of this dastardly example of BF…
When discovered, he let loose with a barrage of excuses for his malfeasance…
In his defense, afterward he did state “I am a weird guy…”

Cautionary Notes:
If I offer to bet that you have thirty two (32) rds in the PMAG that wouldn’t lock into your carbine, don’t take me up on it.
I won’t lose.

If I advise you to not run out of ammunition during a specific exercise, and you in fact do run the gun dry, do not acquire a guppy look and expect not to receive my wrath…
Just sayin’…

Thanks to our host, Keith Romp, for hosting us.
Keith has his act together, and made this a seamless iteration. Guys like Keith make my job waaaay easier.

Mickey Zucker and Husband Mark (both LF’s) drove down to observe the class.
Mickey is a prolific author, who has written (among others) a trilogy prequel to the classic Asimov novel, I Robot.

Thanks To Donna who keeps the train on the track, and to Keith Romp for having us at his great facility!
Thanks to Muleskinner for her assistance in making sure this class rocked.
And thanks to a great class who were a step above.




EAG has been extremely fortunate in a great many ways.
One of those is that some very good companies support our students.
This support ensures that everyone leaves with something, and some leave with more than that.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:15 PM   #4
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
The rifles used were a mix of mostly high-end frankenguns and factory high-end carbines from BCM. One guy ran his issued Colt LE6921 M4LE with iron sights (not issued optics/not allowed by his agency). Another ran a Colt Mk18 Mod 0 w/ DD Omega rail.
All guns that ran optics were running Aimpoint Micro T-1, except for me as I was running a Comp M4S.

The one "black sheep" was a guy running a factory Rock River Operator with an EOTech (AA model). That rifle ran fine, though he did surpass the 5000rd mark with it. RR guns tend to run well until about 5000rds, then they start to have issues. The DEA noted this issue.
Pat asked the shooter: "Why'd you choose Rock River?"
Shooter: "we have a guy who works for our agency who is a Rock River product rep, and he pushed them pretty hard."
Pat: *gets 'that look' on his face*
Shooter: "Plus they're like a mile down the road"
Shooter's work Partner: "So is LMT you asshole!"

Classic.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 02:49 AM   #5
Fisch330ciTopasBlau
Yes...I do think I hate you
 
Fisch330ciTopasBlau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 1,758
My Ride: A car.
On a side note...what's an LF?
Quote:
Mickey Zucker and Husband Mark (both LF’s) drove down to observe the class.
Mickey is a prolific author, who has written (among others) a trilogy prequel to the classic Asimov novel, I Robot.
I love Mickey Zucker Reichert's books as I've only not read a couple of her standalone novels!
__________________

-8/21/2007 RIP Grandma
-pessimum genus inimicorum laudantes: flatterers are the worst type of enemies
Fisch330ciTopasBlau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 06:08 AM   #6
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,059
My Ride: My wife
It's a copy and paste from Lightfighter, so my guess is that they are both members of that site.
__________________
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 10:15 AM   #7
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Yes, they've been on there. They don't really post much, but several of her books have been researched using Lightfighter.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 12:50 PM   #8
Fisch330ciTopasBlau
Yes...I do think I hate you
 
Fisch330ciTopasBlau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 1,758
My Ride: A car.
cool, she's a good action writer
__________________

-8/21/2007 RIP Grandma
-pessimum genus inimicorum laudantes: flatterers are the worst type of enemies
Fisch330ciTopasBlau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 07:21 AM   #9
Serbonze
Master of his domain.
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 2,059
My Ride: My wife
Reedo - I'm not sure if you are on Facebook or follow BCM, but they linked Pat's AAR from LF and it has the picture of you as high shooter with your moosec0ck. You're famous.



For what it's worth, I moosec0cked my pistol at a class just a few months ago. First series of drills. Total brain fart. I loaded 15 rounds in a Glock 19 mag (I usually download to 14) and was performing a tactical reload on a closed slide.
__________________

Last edited by Serbonze; 09-26-2013 at 07:36 AM.
Serbonze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2013, 06:01 PM   #10
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
Reedo - I'm not sure if you are on Facebook or follow BCM, but they linked Pat's AAR from LF and it has the picture of you as high shooter with your moosec0ck. You're famous.



For what it's worth, I moosec0cked my pistol at a class just a few months ago. First series of drills. Total brain fart. I loaded 15 rounds in a Glock 19 mag (I usually download to 14) and was performing a tactical reload on a closed slide.
Yeah, saw that. EAG is the primary testing ground for BCM. HSP does some too, but not nearly to the extent that EAG does.

I actually don't download my pistol mags. I also don't download my PMAGs because I don't have to. PMAGs are the only ones that I don't have to download, though. All others (USGI, Troy, Lancer) get downloaded to 28. TangoDowns get downloaded to 29 or 27, depending on which one I'm using.
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel

Last edited by Reedo302; 09-27-2013 at 10:38 PM.
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 12:18 PM   #11
Reedo302
Registered User
 
Reedo302's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,801
My Ride: F30 328i M Sport
Class picture:









Funniest conversation of that weekend:

Pat asked a shooter: "Why'd you choose Rock River?"
Shooter: "__(guy in his dept)___ is a Rock River product rep, and he pushes them pretty hard."
Pat: ......
Shooter: "Plus they're like a mile down the road"
Shooter's Partner: "So is LMT you asshole!!!"
__________________



Gunfighter Training Development and Evaluation
AR15/AR10 Armorer/Advanced Armorer
Glock Armorer


Gunfighter Training YouTube Channel
Reedo302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use