E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 09-26-2013, 01:04 AM   #21
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,595
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Rebate on Mobil 1 0W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
Not interested in any of that oil analysis crap.
I see you have a 2000 E46. Reasonable to believe it has quite some miles on it. If you've always done 8K oil changes with 0W-40, and your engine is still working fine, that's good for you.
Do you have any evidence that changing oil at 7.5K with 5W-30 (the correct weight prescribed in the manual by BMW) will kill the engine?
My point is... people overdo this oil stuff. It's not necessary.

Actually, according to this guy, correct oil weight is more important
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=746400
To hell with your science and facts! I'll use my feelings and intuition!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:06 AM   #22
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Re: Rebate on Mobil 1 0W-40

Sorry for double post;

Take a look at jpr's post in that thread, he's one of the guys I was talking about who knows his stuff and can explain it well. I remember when that thread was made, I think jpr left soon after. He was smart to get out early

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:13 AM   #23
scarede46er
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Clemson, SC
Posts: 1,258
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325i ZSP
Not a great deal at all. Walmart FTW.
scarede46er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:14 AM   #24
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Re: Rebate on Mobil 1 0W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
To hell with your science and facts! I'll use my feelings and intuition!


That just made me notice this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
Not interested in any of that oil analysis crap.

...

Do you have any evidence that...
Self-contradictory lol

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:54 AM   #25
Hogan773
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 790
My Ride: 2002 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
To hell with your science and facts! I'll use my feelings and intuition!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Gotta be Redline or Amsoil or Royal Purple. Had a buddy who had a buddy whose other buddy once knew a guy who tracked his BMW. Swore by these oils. So I gotta think that since they have special nanolubricants and nanosh&t in there, and since they are way more expensive, they gotta be good.

Last edited by Hogan773; 09-26-2013 at 01:55 AM.
Hogan773 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:58 AM   #26
Hogan773
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 790
My Ride: 2002 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedion View Post
hey guys dont know if this has be posted already (i tried a quick search)

Amazon has a rebate on Mobil 1 0W-40 right now for up to 2 purchases of 5qts or more.

the pack of 6 was a bit cheaper for my yesterday, but i got a 5.1qt and a pack of 6 qts

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...1&s=automotive

http://www.amazon.com/Mobil-96989-0W.../dp/B000SKV4U2

comes out to $6-$7/qt after rebate. free shipping too.
Thanks for creating our daily devotional (aka the "oil forum")

Where some people come to argue that oil is oil and other people tell them they are buffoons if they don't use LL-01.

The thread will ultimately be entertaining in some way, someone's feelings will get bruised, lots of fingers will do lots of typing and there will be many hyperbolic statements from both the Hatfields and the McCoys. Then tomorrow will come, and some new thread will open that contains the word OIL or even just the hint of it, and it will all repeat again! As the forum turns.....
Hogan773 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 04:14 AM   #27
sprintman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Posts: 3,950
My Ride: Ex 325CI owner
Quote:
Originally Posted by caryalon View Post
That spec is only pertinent if you only change every 15K miles. If you reduce the oil change interval (to 7.5K, for instance), then the LL01 spec has little meaning.
Are you really that clueless? LL01 sets the viscosity at operating temperature, start up viscosity, HTHS (critical), and a lot more. If you don't understand oil basics, stay off threads about....................................OIL!
sprintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 04:17 AM   #28
sprintman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Posts: 3,950
My Ride: Ex 325CI owner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
You haven't provided any info/data/argument for why his statement is incorrect.
We're not talking about semantics here.
Changing oil every 7.5K miles... why does one need LL-01?
You don't, but do you have the knowledge to select an oil that has a viscosity of 12.0 cSt @ 100C, and a HTHS of at least 3.5? You could use oil that meets ACEA A3, B3, which of course most XW30's don't, as they only meet ACEA A1 and are to thin with far to low a HTHS.
sprintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 04:21 AM   #29
sprintman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Posts: 3,950
My Ride: Ex 325CI owner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
Not interested in any of that oil analysis crap.
I see you have a 2000 E46. Reasonable to believe it has quite some miles on it. If you've always done 8K oil changes with 0W-40, and your engine is still working fine, that's good for you.
Do you have any evidence that changing oil at 7.5K with 5W-30 (the correct weight prescribed in the manual by BMW) will kill the engine?
My point is... people overdo this oil stuff. It's not necessary.

Actually, according to this guy, correct oil weight is more important
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=746400
5W30 isn't a weight. It covers a range from a nearly 20W to nearly a 40W and everything in between. That's why you need to learn about oil basics and then you will understand what LL01 actually means.
sprintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 04:22 AM   #30
sprintman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Posts: 3,950
My Ride: Ex 325CI owner
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Also, this is incorrect. Even an LL-01 oil will not necessarily last the full 15,525 miles. Send in a couple oil samples if you want to know how long it will really go.
Where do these people come from?
sprintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:15 AM   #31
makecopies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 1600 Penn. Ave
Posts: 1,816
My Ride: Gods Chariot
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhp235 View Post
walmart carries m1 0-40 for $22/5qt.


Sent from bimmerapp mobile app
+123456789
makecopies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #32
Master Po
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 369
My Ride: E46 no more
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Oil weight is very important.

What you're missing is that the SAE rating on the front of the bottle has very little correlation with the actual kinematic viscosity of the oil. The BMW branded 5w-30 oil is substantially thicker than the 5w-30 junk at Autozone and Walmart.

If you don't believe me, look up some datasheets. German oils, and European made oils in general, run much thicker than an American made oil of the same rating. For example, the German made Castrol 0w-30 (LL-01) is thicker than the American 5w-30 variant.

Viscosity is important. SAE rating is not.

But no, using an oil that doesn't meet spec probably won't kill your engine. But I figured, since it's going to cost the same anyways, I might as well use the better oil (and also try to stretch out the change interval correspondingly, therefore reducing cost in the end). Longer drain intervals can lead to less wear than an arbitrarily chosen interval that's too short anyways, but that's another topic for another day.

What you do is your decision. I try to keep my decisions as informed as I can though.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
You do what you want, of course.
I take issue when you say that others are doing it wrong. You have not provided any data to substantiate that.
You've made a lot of contradictions in you post above.
First, you say that stretching out the change interval is good. I agree with that, although not for the reason you mention, but that is a another day... but you're not stretching. BMW recommends 15K intervals and you change at 8K.
Another contradiction... you said thicker oil is better. If you read the article I linked, the guy basically says to use the thinnest possible, as even 0W20 is too thick.
You throw Autozone and Walmart in the mix as to imply their oil is inferior... they just sell the oil. It's the same Mobil 1 that you use. We're discussing the viscosity, LL-01 spec and change interval. It doesn't matter where you buy the oil.
__________________
Master Po is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #33
Master Po
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 369
My Ride: E46 no more
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
To hell with your science and facts! I'll use my feelings and intuition!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
There is a huge difference between looking at facts (numbers) and understanding the facts.
What you guys are doing is akin to getting a blood test result and self medicate.
Worse, based on comments you find on the internet for why your zinc level needs to be higher than FDA recommended range.
Where are the facts that show people with FDA recommended range for zinc are dying?
__________________

Last edited by Master Po; 09-26-2013 at 09:41 AM.
Master Po is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:45 AM   #34
Master Po
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 369
My Ride: E46 no more
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprintman View Post
You don't, but do you have the knowledge to select an oil that has a viscosity of 12.0 cSt @ 100C, and a HTHS of at least 3.5? You could use oil that meets ACEA A3, B3, which of course most XW30's don't, as they only meet ACEA A1 and are to thin with far to low a HTHS.
That is the exact "snobism" that I take issue with.
For every 1 person like you, that do oil analysis, there are 1000 (if not more) others that simply follow the oil change light (15K) and take their cars to either the dealer or Jiffy Lube. They have no idea what oil goes in. Many don't even know where the oil cap is.
Are there 1000s of cars dead on the roads?
Where are the facts that show the percentage of engines that were treated with oil analysis last longer than comparable ones treated by Jiffy Lube?

If that's not snobism and is in fact supported by science, don't you think the "pros", who rely on the well being of their engines for their living, like cab and truck drivers would all be doing oil analysis? :lol:
__________________

Last edited by Master Po; 09-26-2013 at 09:49 AM.
Master Po is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:47 AM   #35
NOVAbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 12,595
My Ride: 14 Impala FXST M796
Rebate on Mobil 1 0W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
There is a huge difference between looking at facts (numbers) and understanding the facts.
What you guys are doing is akin to getting a blood test result and self medicate.
Worse, based on comments you find on the internet for why your zinc level needs to be higher than FDA recommended range.
Where are the facts that show people with FDA recommended range for zinc are dying?
Don't lump me in with them. I used to use only M1 0w-40, until I realized it was a ton cheaper to just order BMW oil online. I'm by no means an oil expert, your post just made me lol.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________
NOVAbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 09:54 AM   #36
Master Po
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 369
My Ride: E46 no more
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
Don't lump me in with them. I used to use only M1 0w-40, until I realized it was a ton cheaper to just order BMW oil online. I'm by no means an oil expert, your post just made me lol.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
That's what I'm saying.
And you know what? It's even cheaper if you just change at 15 or when the light goes on.
And even more... trust the BMW engineers who already tested this sh1t before setting that light to 15K and save on oil analysis fees.
__________________
Master Po is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 11:05 AM   #37
jeffro3000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,812
My Ride: 2000 328i
Re: Rebate on Mobil 1 0W-40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
You do what you want, of course.
I take issue when you say that others are doing it wrong. You have not provided any data to substantiate that.
You've made a lot of contradictions in you post above.
First, you say that stretching out the change interval is good. I agree with that, although not for the reason you mention, but that is a another day... but you're not stretching. BMW recommends 15K intervals and you change at 8K.
Another contradiction... you said thicker oil is better. If you read the article I linked, the guy basically says to use the thinnest possible, as even 0W20 is too thick.
You throw Autozone and Walmart in the mix as to imply their oil is inferior... they just sell the oil. It's the same Mobil 1 that you use. We're discussing the viscosity, LL-01 spec and change interval. It doesn't matter where you buy the oil.
I'm not trying to tell you you're doing it wrong, I'm just telling you where you've been misinformed so you can make more informed decisions. I've got plenty of data to support my claims, that's the whole reason I started sending samples of my oil. There was nothing but people recommending arbitrary oil change intervals on this forum, (looks like that's still the case) with no data to back it up. I wanted to come up with something concrete on my own.

Stretching out the change interval is good, as long as the oil is up for it. Changing it too early just breaks down whatever films have had a chance to form and starts the process over again. The SAE study is linked in a couple of my threads. You can look for yourself if you want. I would have stretched it all the way to 15k, but it was becoming clear that that was more in BMW's interest (less warranty covered oil changes to pay for) than in the interest of engine wear. Another reason for my analyses. Between the info and interpretations given by the lab, and further info by experts here, the results are very clear, and it turned out to be a very useful endeavor to me. I got to find out what exactly goes on in that engine with the oil.

I didn't say thicker is better. I said the German/Euro oils generally run thicker. What's "better" is what's defined in the ACEA/BMW oil specs. What's defined there is thicker than most 5w-30s sold here.

I read the article you posted, when it was originally posted. JPR debunks a lot of the claims the guy is making, and he's proven himself to be extremely knowledgeable on the subject. I'll take the ACEA standards over a guy on the internet anyways though given the choice. Thinner is not always better. Especially not with a group 3 or group 4 basestock that's going to have more trouble holding up.

I didn't say Walmart or Autozone were inferior. I've bought most of my oil over the years from Autozone. The Castrol 0w-30 they sell (GC for short) is very good stuff. There have been tons of threads about it in particular over on the oil forums. They've changed the formula over the years but it still meets the standard. What's inferior is the 5w-30 that's sold at those places. That's what I said in my post.

In the end, if you're not willing to take a scientific approach then this is a pointless conversation. I've got my data here on the forum, if you've got some to refute it then I'd be very interested to see it. I'm always up for learning more.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Last edited by jeffro3000; 09-26-2013 at 11:11 AM.
jeffro3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 11:08 AM   #38
Mango
A full five stars, son
 
Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23,222
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffro3000 View Post
Oil weight is very important.

What you're missing is that the SAE rating on the front of the bottle has very little correlation with the actual kinematic viscosity of the oil. The BMW branded 5w-30 oil is substantially thicker than the 5w-30 junk at Autozone and Walmart.

If you don't believe me, look up some datasheets. German oils, and European made oils in general, run much thicker than an American made oil of the same rating. For example, the German made Castrol 0w-30 (LL-01) is thicker than the American 5w-30 variant.

Viscosity is important. SAE rating is not.

But no, using an oil that doesn't meet spec probably won't kill your engine. But I figured, since it's going to cost the same anyways, I might as well use the better oil (and also try to stretch out the change interval correspondingly, therefore reducing cost in the end). Longer drain intervals can lead to less wear than an arbitrarily chosen interval that's too short anyways, but that's another topic for another day.

What you do is your decision. I try to keep my decisions as informed as I can though.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
I agree with this post. Correct on all counts.
__________________
A lifetime free of problems if you follow my guides
Cooling | Maintenance | Suspension | Vacuum | Supreme Reliability | Details

OVER A MILLION VIEWS
Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #39
sprintman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Posts: 3,950
My Ride: Ex 325CI owner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
That is the exact "snobism" that I take issue with.
For every 1 person like you, that do oil analysis, there are 1000 (if not more) others that simply follow the oil change light (15K) and take their cars to either the dealer or Jiffy Lube. They have no idea what oil goes in. Many don't even know where the oil cap is.
Are there 1000s of cars dead on the roads?
Where are the facts that show the percentage of engines that were treated with oil analysis last longer than comparable ones treated by Jiffy Lube?

If that's not snobism and is in fact supported by science, don't you think the "pros", who rely on the well being of their engines for their living, like cab and truck drivers would all be doing oil analysis? :lol:
Snobbism isn't a word. Most OTR truck owners use oil analysis. You don't have a clue do you?
sprintman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:00 PM   #40
Hogan773
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 790
My Ride: 2002 325xi
This is like living in a retirement home where people are senile and have memory issues. They end up arguing the same thing every day.

Again, I don't see why there is so much controversy about oil and LL-01 when IT IS NOT HARD to actually get the stuff that is indeed "certified" and it is no more expensive (in many cases less so) than all the other variants that people are touting based on intuition, feel, my buddy's buddy had a buddy who used it and HIS CAR NEVER EXPLODED so it must be OK, etc.

What is the downside to just using the recommended stuff if you're not paying extra for it and it isn't more inconvenient to obtain?
Hogan773 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use