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Old 09-26-2013, 08:59 AM   #1
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Federal Shut down, will it happen?

I am of two minds on this:

No. Cruz's quixotic crusade was the last piece of meat GOP leadership was willing to toss to the TP anarchists and that to bar further damage to the GOP brand and to its public, and business, standing, they will pass a CR.

Yes. Better to shut down the government, at least for a little bit, than to resort to their other last straw to kill ACA, default on the debt, which would have exponentially worse collateral damage than even a shut down. Nobody but the foaming-at-the-mouth right wing radicals (I decline to call them "conservatives" because their anything but) have any stomach for this and the old gray heads in the GOP know full well this would redound disasterously on their party.

I tend to think the former to be the more likely because there simply is no rational way to actually kill ACA at this point, this is primarily political theater to appease the rabid right wing, and would be a pointless exercise that would far more likely damage the GOP than help it in any way.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:04 AM   #2
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The fact that this is even being asked shows how responsible and attentive our politicians are.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:40 AM   #3
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Or, that some politician's have devolved to legislation by desperate threat of hostage taking and exploding the economy shows just how irresponsible policians of a certain bent have become.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I am perfectly sympathetic that many on the right have serious disagreements with ACA -- fair enough -- but it was democratically/Constitutionally passed by Congress, upheld by the SCOTUS, and ratified by proxy by the 2012 Presidential election.

The current quixotic, flailing and radical tactics by the GOP/TP to somehow, anyhow, kill off ACA is most definitely not serious, mature and responsible governance or legislating.

Last edited by Rhumb; 09-26-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:50 AM   #4
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Or, that some politician's have devolved to legislation by desperate threat of hostage taking and exploding the economy shows just how irresponsible policians of a certain bent have become.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I am perfectly sympathetic that many on the right have serious disagreements with ACA -- fair enough -- but it was democratically/Constitutionally passed by Congress, upheld by the SCOTUS, and ratified by proxy by the 2012 Presidential election.

The current quixotic, flailing and radical tactics by the GOP/TP to somehow, anyhow, kill off ACA is most definitely not serious, mature and responsible governance or legislating.
The blame game gets nobody anywhere. All that does is instill self-defensiveness in the opposition and creates a vicious cycle. Instead, the logical thing to do would ask why is this blockade being pushed in the first place, and what would it take to get the GOP on board?
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #5
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Re: Federal Shut down, will it happen?

Rhumb, are you worried you won't be able to pick up an honest abe bobblehead from the gift shop at the memorial? Because that's about the severity of this dreaded shutdown.

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Old 09-26-2013, 11:17 AM   #6
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Rhumb, are you worried you won't be able to pick up an honest abe bobblehead from the gift shop at the memorial? Because that's about the severity of this dreaded shutdown.

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Has Obama even addressed it much?
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #7
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The government has "shutdown" 17 times since Reagan's administration. The world kept spinning. I have no concerns regarding it.

What I do take issue with is this debt ceiling thing. Spending needs to be brought into manageable bounds. And yes, that will be painful, but it will only get exponentially worse the more these jokers spend. The idea that we have to "borrow more so we don't default on our obligations" is ridiculous to say the least. It is a sign that collapse is coming.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #8
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Rhumb, are you worried you won't be able to pick up an honest abe bobblehead from the gift shop at the memorial? Because that's about the severity of this dreaded shutdown.

Sent from my Obamaphone
If this is true, then the GOP/TP is trying to force a hostage situation with little more than a spit ball pointed at its head. THAT would be even stupider than trying to hold hostage with a real gun.

As I think 'Busa mentioned, "where's the leverage in that?"
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #9
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The blame game gets nobody anywhere. All that does is instill self-defensiveness in the opposition and creates a vicious cycle. Instead, the logical thing to do would ask why is this blockade being pushed in the first place, and what would it take to get the GOP on board?
No, but the responibility and accountability do count for something and if current polls and the history of the GOP's 1995 shutdown are any indication, the brunt of the responsibility for this fiasco will fall on the shoulders of the GOP who will have little to nothing to show for it in the end.

Yes, I do often ask why this rapid, desperate, and extremely reckless attempt to kill ACA? If the GOP/TP are so confident that it is inherently flawed and bad from the start, then why not let it take effect and whither of its own accord? The GOP would look precient, the Dems and Obama would look terrible and the GOP would have a fantastic issue to run on come 2014/16. George Will just had a column to that effect.

However, to paraphrase Shakespeare, "You douth protest to loudly!" I think the real fear is that ACA WILL work, will be succesfull and will be popular, all of which would be disasterous for the GOP politically.

In addition, the efficiency and cost savings measures may well turn back the cost curves of our health care system, which, as a percent of GDP are about twice that of most modern, industrialized countries. That would represent an immense constriction of the vast revenue/profit stream flooding into the medical-industrial complex and THAT represents and intolerable situation for one of the GOPs largest backers.

So yes, I think it very useful to ask, deeply, why the GOP/TP douth protest so loudly.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #10
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The government has "shutdown" 17 times since Reagan's administration. The world kept spinning. I have no concerns regarding it.
Yep, (it is not like this hasn't happened any number of times before.)

The govt isn't a business. It won't really "shutdown". If it did, it would be impossible for it ever to start back up again. There will be some reduction in services for a few days. Those effected will then b!tch to their congress members and senators and those that are firmly entrenched in not compromising, will finally "reach out across the aisle for the good of the country" and things will start back up again. It's the same old song and dance.

Shutting down the govt has become like caucuses in Iowa or kissing babies...it's part and parcel of modern politics. Thank you national tv coverage.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:01 PM   #11
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So basically then, the GOP/TP's great big bargaining chip here is but a paper tiger after all? Then why on earth would the Dems and Obama even begin to consider killing ACA, certainly on account of such a presumably insiped threat?

In either case, the GOP/TP looks irresponsible, desperate, truculent and in the end, impotent.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:10 PM   #12
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So basically then, the GOP/TP's great big bargaining chip here is but a paper tiger after all? Then why on earth would the Dems and Obama even begin to consider killing ACA, certainly on account of such a presumably insiped threat?

In either case, the GOP/TP looks irresponsible, desperate, truculent and in the end, impotent.
Late breaking urgent news right there.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:16 PM   #13
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So basically then, the GOP/TP's great big bargaining chip here is but a paper tiger after all? Then why on earth would the Dems and Obama even begin to consider killing ACA, certainly on account of such a presumably insiped threat?

In either case, the GOP/TP looks irresponsible, desperate, truculent and in the end, impotent.
To those that actually know how the government works, yeah. However, the issue is (and this has nothing to do with political affiliation or belief) too many people in this country are ignorant of how our federal system works. Hell, most people think we live in a democracy. So the media raises a stink about it and instead of the "leaders" of this nation explaining things, they grab hold of it and manipulate these individuals using fear and ignorance.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #14
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To those that actually know how the government works, yeah. However, the issue is (and this has nothing to do with political affiliation or belief) too many people in this country are ignorant of how our federal system works. Hell, most people think we live in a democracy. So the media raises a stink about it and instead of the "leaders" of this nation explaining things, they grab hold of it and manipulate these individuals using fear and ignorance.
But but but....it's the will of the people!!!
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:25 PM   #15
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Late breaking urgent news right there.
Well, yeah, like Obama and the Dems were actually going to simply repeal ACA, their signature legislative achievement, to begin with, much less with a spit ball pointed at the head of either the overall Federal Government or the American economy as a whole.

Simply a foolish, quixotic and reckless endeavor from the start that was doomed to fail, hopefully without too much undue collateral damage in the attempt.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:44 PM   #16
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To those that actually know how the government works, yeah. However, the issue is (and this has nothing to do with political affiliation or belief) too many people in this country are ignorant of how our federal system works. Hell, most people think we live in a democracy. So the media raises a stink about it and instead of the "leaders" of this nation explaining things, they grab hold of it and manipulate these individuals using fear and ignorance.
Hungry for power and wealth...
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If there is one thing I despise most it's blacks always pulling the race card. It's so annoying and is often misplaced.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:14 PM   #17
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Well, yeah, like Obama and the Dems were actually going to simply repeal ACA, their signature legislative achievement, to begin with, much less with a spit ball pointed at the head of either the overall Federal Government or the American economy as a whole.

Simply a foolish, quixotic and reckless endeavor from the start that was doomed to fail, hopefully without too much undue collateral damage in the attempt.

What? The ACA? Yeah, I agree.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:17 PM   #18
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Federal Shut down, will it happen?

I just hope they can pull it together and get something done. I'd prefer to have a steady paycheck.


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Old 09-26-2013, 01:22 PM   #19
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I just hope they can pull it together and get something done. I'd prefer to have a steady paycheck.


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You think they care? Serious question
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:25 PM   #20
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Federal Shut down, will it happen?

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You think they care? Serious question
Which "they"? The GOP? Other E46F members? Other posters in this thread? MADD? The Illuminati? The Rap Game? Big Business? The Reptilian Overlords? Republicans? Democrats?


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